angore
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What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jun 7, 2023 10:44:24 GMT
For evidence in mainstream such as Gibbons, I looked at the latest Gibbons Stamp Monthly and the "Machin Watch Column" by John Deering has been renamed "Definitive Watch". I believe Gibbons will have a great influence on how they are described. (Winners write history their way) images from pages
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Post by paul1 on Jun 7, 2023 13:12:23 GMT
in view of the above text from SG (courtesy of angore), the interpretation of the new title of Deering's 'regular column' of 'Definitive Watch, is that it lacks any specific reference KC III. By definition then, we take it that this new title implies that Deering will provide up-dates and news "on the latest new developments in the world of British definitives" - Dorothy Wilding's, Arnold Machin's and Jennings', rather than just those issued for KC III. There was, presumably, some reason why the title of Deering's column isn't limited to KC III only. My tongue is slightly in cheek, as we suppose there will not be any news or information on Wildings, and maybe rather limited details on past Machin's - I'm just curious as to why protocol wasn't followed with the new title being called Jennings' Definitives.
Every time I see the name Jennings' I have to smile - oldies like me will remember the series of children's books, issued post WW II in the U.K. regarding the adventures and escapades of J.C.T. Jennings - a school boy at an English Prep. school, written by Anthony Buckeridge. I think the only defs. available then were Wilding's.
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angore
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What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jun 7, 2023 17:03:21 GMT
I hear Jennings I think of a butler from the movie Gosford Park. Gosford Park was a precursor project to Downton Abbey. Maggie Smith played in both.
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salmantino
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Posts: 266
What I collect: Specialised UK and overprints, Ireland, Netherlands, Spanish permanent stamps.
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Post by salmantino on Jan 19, 2024 17:36:22 GMT
At Colnect we are calling the series King Charles III - Jennings Definitives as the design is by Martin Jennings I also call them Jennings Definitives. However, Martin Jennings did not design the stamps. The stamps were designed by Royal Mail itself. Royal Mail digitally adapted the the coinage head for King Charles III designed by Martin Jennings. Strictly speaking, therefore, the portrait was not designed by Martin Jennings either.
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djcmh
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What I collect: Worldwide
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Post by djcmh on Jan 19, 2024 18:18:42 GMT
At Colnect we are calling the series King Charles III - Jennings Definitives as the design is by Martin Jennings I also call them Jennings Definitives. However, Martin Jennings did not design the stamps. The stamps were designed by Royal Mail itself. Royal Mail digitally adapted the the coinage head for King Charles III designed by Martin Jennings. Strictly speaking, therefore, the portrait was not designed by Martin Jennings either. Well he is the artist behind the image used for the designs so in that sense calling them King Charles III by Jennings isn't that off the mark either.
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salmantino
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Posts: 266
What I collect: Specialised UK and overprints, Ireland, Netherlands, Spanish permanent stamps.
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Post by salmantino on Jan 19, 2024 18:31:02 GMT
Well he is the artist behind the image used for the designs so in that sense calling them King Charles III by Jennings isn't that off the mark either. Dorothy Wilding or her studio was - if you can call a portrait photographer that - the artist behind the 'Wildings.' But Dorothy Wilding was not the designer, nor were the stamps 'by' Dorothy Wilding. Netherlands, NVPH numbers 300 - 304 were not 'by' Frans Hals, and Great Britain, SG 750 was not 'by' Laurence Stephen Lowry. The King Charles III permanent stamps were not (designed) by Martin Jennings but by Royal Mail's design department.
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daniel
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Post by daniel on Jan 20, 2024 1:23:30 GMT
Well he is the artist behind the image used for the designs so in that sense calling them King Charles III by Jennings isn't that off the mark either. Dorothy Wilding or her studio was - if you can call a portrait photographer that - the artist behind the 'Wildings.' But Dorothy Wilding was not the designer, nor were the stamps 'by' Dorothy Wilding. Netherlands, NVPH numbers 300 - 304 were not 'by' Frans Hals, and Great Britain, SG 750 was not 'by' Laurence Stephen Lowry. The King Charles III permanent stamps were not (designed) by Martin Jennings but by Royal Mail's design department. There was no major redesign for the King Charles definitives, other than the use of Martin Jennings' portrait replacing the Machin portrait of Queen Elizabeth. The stamps continued in the exact same style and size of the later Machin stamps and using the same colours. It is perfectly reasonable to use names such as Wildings, Machins and Jenningses (or Jennings, if you will) as clearly recognisible identifiers for these long series of definitive stamps. Daniel
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salmantino
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Posts: 266
What I collect: Specialised UK and overprints, Ireland, Netherlands, Spanish permanent stamps.
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Post by salmantino on Jan 20, 2024 9:21:03 GMT
There was no major redesign for the King Charles definitives, other than the use of Martin Jennings' portrait replacing the Machin portrait of Queen Elizabeth. The stamps continued in the exact same style and size of the latter Machin stamps and using the same colours. It is perfectly reasonable to use names such as Wildings, Machins and Jenningses (or Jennings, if you will) as clearly recognisible identifiers for these long series of definitive stamps. I agree. And I wrote I call them 'Jennings' as I call the pre-decimal stamps of Queen Elizabeth II designed by Mary Adshead, Michael Farrar-Bell, Enid Marx, and George Knipe 'Wildings.' Stating the 'Jennings' stamps were (designed) by Martin Jennings, simply is not true. It is equally untrue to state the 'Wildings' were designed by Dorothy Wilding. Aside from the clear similarity in the designs, you will find it very difficult to find a single element of the stamps that is the same. The later 'Machins' only used the head of the original design by Arnold Machin. All other elements had been changed over time. Other than the background (and the matrix code that Arnold Machin did not design) the design elements are the value and the head. The typeface on the 'Machins' had been changed from that of the original design. Neither the head, nor the typeface are the same on the 'Jennings' and the 'Machin' stamps. On the 'large' stamps, the position of the typographic elements has changed as well. But here, also, is the essence of why I do not agree with people that find the 'Machins' boring. (This, of course, is a personal opinion, not a fact,)
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