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Post by jamesw on Mar 29, 2014 3:47:04 GMT
Britain is not my bailiwick, but I have a couple of pieces just for the 'eck of it. Here's my oldest cover, overall. London to Edinburgh with a February 2 Bishops mark from 1764. Sorry these scans aren't very big. I have some better ones somewhere. I'll look this weekend and try top post them here. Meanwhile, let's see your British stampless covers.    |
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Mar 29, 2014 8:11:43 GMT
Britain is not my bailiwick, but I have a couple of pieces just for the 'eck of it. Here's my oldest cover, overall. London to Edinburgh with a February 2 Bishops mark from 1764. Sorry these scans aren't very big. I have some better ones somewhere. I'll look this weekend and try top post them here. Meanwhile, let's see your British stampless covers. Bishop Marks The General Post 1661-1840 Type 2 Day in top section and larger 1721-1787 CV $10 (price as of 1983) |
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Londonbus1
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Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 4,870
What I collect: Cinderellas and some Ephemera from Great Britain, France and Israel plus a few beautiful bits from elsewhere !! Topical interests include Flags & Judaica, the latter with an emphasis on the Jewish National Fund.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Mar 29, 2014 11:05:58 GMT
 Cover not mine any longer....I guess someone here has it !  [Broken image links removed] |
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Mar 29, 2014 12:07:29 GMT
Reorganised Penny Post, from 1794 (Two penny Post from 1801) Type 20, Indented side types red CV $3 (1983) Type 25 "step type" 1816-1850 Black CV $4 (1983) Your "step type" has TP at the top, I am presuming "Two Penny Post" |
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Post by ChickasawStampMan on Mar 31, 2014 4:59:58 GMT
I love these covers. Thanks for sharing
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Post by tallanent on Feb 16, 2015 15:11:15 GMT
A very good clear strike of the government Dockwra triangular mark Dated 11 November 1761 in manuscript Postmark shows W TH = Westminster office, Thursday 11 November 1761 was a wednesday, so entered the post the following day See www.ipdastamps.org/D.htm[Moderator edit - image links are broken and irretrievable]  Most of these marks are poorly impressed or smudged with good impressions when offered attracting a premium
Most of these commonly offered by dealers are from the 1770s' onwards with the earlier dates being harder to find
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on Aug 30, 2015 6:39:42 GMT
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Aug 30, 2015 7:19:01 GMT
1792 Great Britain, Aberdeen Cancel Aberdeen, Possibly a receiving mark. Note: Postal Clerks fingerprint  and price rise in 1 year 3d (thruppence) to 6d sixpence (a tanner) George Davidson, looks like a banking Agent in Huntly (aka Milton of Strathbogie) (Home of the Gordon Highlanders) Aberdeeen 11th May 1792 Inclosed (sic) you have John Grants Dr. ? you £10 to your debit. I am Sir, Your most obedient servant, Aneas Smyth  |
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Post by jimjung on Aug 30, 2015 12:39:22 GMT
I have a collection of these and collect them for two reasons. History and handstruck postmarks. I've posted some of the postmarks on TSF before so I'll try some history. This letter has no postal markings but it was marked by a previous collector as 1786. The sender is Mr Townsend, not sure which but it is the first words in the letter, and is addressed to Lady Viscountess Townsend. Lady Townsend was the 2nd wife of George Townsend, who was an important figure in British and Canadian History. I am unsure if the sender is George himself or one of his sons. This depends on whether the beginning of the letter says: "Mr G Townsend ... " or if the G was a J. Anyone post an opinion on this? George Townsend was Commander of the British Forces under General James Wolfe and 2nd in Command Robert Monckton. After Wolfe died and Monckton was wounded, George Townsend took command of the British Forces during the Battle of the Plains of Abraham in the Seven Year’s War. He received Quebec City’s surrender on Sept 18 1759.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Aug 30, 2015 18:58:53 GMT
depends on whether the beginning of the letter says: "Mr G Townsend ... " or if the G was a J. Anyone post an opinion on this? Opinion: I would suggest "J" strongly. |
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Post by jimjung on Aug 31, 2015 11:10:57 GMT
I currently have the following in my description on my homemade album page as I thought it was a J also. I think if it was George, he may have gone directly to Mrs Harrison.
"1786 Stampless SFL addressed to Lady Anne Townsend (nee Montgomery), who at the time of the letter was Viscountess Townsend, and then became Marchioness a year after this letter. She had married George Townsend and became his 2nd wife on 19 May 1773. The letter is from Mr J. Townsend. This could be George Townsend’s 2nd son, Lord John Townsend (1757-1833), by his 1st marriage to Charlotte Compton ( - 1770). The sender asks Lady Townsend to have his application given to Mrs Harrison. This could be either his grandmother, Audrey Harrison, or a relative of hers, who would be surnamed Harrison. The letter was written at Lincoln’s Inn, an Inn of Court in London where Barristers of England belong.
George Townsend was Commander of the British Forces under General James Wolfe and 2nd in Command Robert Monckton. After Wolfe died and Monckton was wounded, George Townsend took command of the British Forces during the Battle of the Plains of Abraham in the Seven Year’s War. He received Quebec City’s surrender on Sept 18 1759.
"
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Post by jimjung on Aug 31, 2015 11:16:09 GMT
Here is one with a nice postmark. Interesting to note that this one is addressed to High Holborne Street and the one above was sent from High Holborne Street Two Penny Receiving House.   |
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Aug 31, 2015 11:26:24 GMT
I currently have the following in my description on my homemade album page as I thought it was a J also. I think if it was George, he may have gone directly to Mrs Harrison. "1786 Stampless SFL addressed to Lady Anne Townsend (nee Montgomery), who at the time of the letter was Viscountess Townsend, and then became Marchioness a year after this letter. She had married George Townsend and became his 2nd wife on 19 May 1773. The letter is from Mr J. Townsend. This could be George Townsend’s 2nd son, Lord John Townsend (1757-1833), by his 1st marriage to Charlotte Compton ( - 1770). The sender asks Lady Townsend to have his application given to Mrs Harrison. This could be either his grandmother, Audrey Harrison, or a relative of hers, who would be surnamed Harrison. The letter was written at Lincoln’s Inn, an Inn of Court in London where Barristers of England belong.
George Townsend was Commander of the British Forces under General James Wolfe and 2nd in Command Robert Monckton. After Wolfe died and Monckton was wounded, George Townsend took command of the British Forces during the Battle of the Plains of Abraham in the Seven Year’s War. He received Quebec City’s surrender on Sept 18 1759.
"Would that be the same Robert Monckton , that Moncton, New Brunswick, is named after? |
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Post by jimjung on Aug 31, 2015 17:06:54 GMT
I currently have the following in my description on my homemade album page as I thought it was a J also. I think if it was George, he may have gone directly to Mrs Harrison. "1786 Stampless SFL addressed to Lady Anne Townsend (nee Montgomery), who at the time of the letter was Viscountess Townsend, and then became Marchioness a year after this letter. She had married George Townsend and became his 2nd wife on 19 May 1773. The letter is from Mr J. Townsend. This could be George Townsend’s 2nd son, Lord John Townsend (1757-1833), by his 1st marriage to Charlotte Compton ( - 1770). The sender asks Lady Townsend to have his application given to Mrs Harrison. This could be either his grandmother, Audrey Harrison, or a relative of hers, who would be surnamed Harrison. The letter was written at Lincoln’s Inn, an Inn of Court in London where Barristers of England belong.
George Townsend was Commander of the British Forces under General James Wolfe and 2nd in Command Robert Monckton. After Wolfe died and Monckton was wounded, George Townsend took command of the British Forces during the Battle of the Plains of Abraham in the Seven Year’s War. He received Quebec City’s surrender on Sept 18 1759.
"Would that be the same Robert Monckton , that Moncton, New Brunswick, is named after? Both Moncton and Fort Monckton as per his wikipedia page ! I like that Postal History ... I'll try to post a few more. |
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Post by jamesw on Aug 1, 2018 2:14:32 GMT
Lets add to this one... Postmarked April 30 1840 LS (Lombard Street). Yes, the day BEFORE the issue of the penny black.  Letter from Sun Fire Insurance Co.  Nice wax seal too.  |
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Post by jamesw on Sept 1, 2018 20:41:29 GMT
Here's another Brit stampless cover picked up today. Per North American Mail Steamer 1847 front  back  A bit of a mess, with rates being changed and a few tears. Cancels on back include Liverpool Oct 18 1847 and London U.C Nov 12 1847 receiver cancel. Can someone fill me in on the black oval cancel? L OC 18 G OC 18 is obviously the date. Was it sent from Liverpool or London? Edit - I just noticed a faint red cancel overlapping the Liverpool cancel. This cover is going to take some time to figure out! Edit 2 - Just noticed a faint black cancel on the front. Can't make out the place name, or much else for that matter. Note, this letter was carried on the steamer North American. According to the book North Atlantic Mail Sailings 1840 - 1875 (U.S. Philatelic Classics Society 1988) the North American was owned by the Allan Line, a Canadian Steamship company operating out of Montreal. The problem is the Allan Line didn't start operations until 1854. Since this letter was posted in 1847, either the book is incorrect about some dates, or the North American was owned previously by another company, or possibly operated independently. It's not listed with Cunard, Hérout & de Handel (France) or the Ocean Line (USA), all of whom are listed in operation in 1847. This is where the research gets interesting! d2jf3tgwe889fp.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/North_Atlantic_Mail_Sailings_1840-75_with_Revisions.pdf |
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Post by jamesw on Sept 1, 2018 21:17:23 GMT
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Dec 23, 2019 15:37:07 GMT
Here is a niece old cover from England...1824 Robert
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Post by daniel on Feb 7, 2021 6:01:03 GMT
A nice example of a stampless cover from 1821 sent from Fleet Street, London to New Cut, London. Whoever wrote this up has drawn readable versions of the markings, 'Fleet St 2py P Paid' (2 pence postage paid) and 12 O'Clock Noon, Two Penny Post Paid with the date for August 22nd 1821.  Scan_20210207 (2) by Daniel, on Flickr |
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Post by smauggie on Mar 25, 2021 12:07:21 GMT
I was looking through a box I had in storage and found this little cover. It looks like it was mailed in a post office on Piccadilly St., Westminster, London on November 27, 1852. The next day it was processed at the London GPO and there given the octagonal transit marking. It then passed over the Atlantic via ship to New York receiving an additional New York Packet transit marking. I am not sure whether the "3 cents" marking was applied in New York or Hartford, but my guess would be New York.  |
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ameis33
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What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet
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What I collect: Poland and Italy Republic
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Post by ameis33 on Mar 25, 2021 17:34:49 GMT
Maybe out of topic, and with not so much description. Just wanted to put my 2 pence The first is a letter from (? somewhere in England) to Gdansk via Ostende, sent the 26 dec(ember) 1851, entering in Prussia ("SEEBRIEF PER ENGLAND UND AACHEN") the 27 and finally arriving at destination the 30.   The second is a letter taking the opposite direction, sent from Gdansk the 8 june 1864, arrived in London the 10 via Ostende. Stampless or prephilatelic? In this case, stamps already exist, but at the beginning, stamps could not be used for postage abroad. Not sure if the same applies also to the previous letter. I usually prefer to refer about this kind of cover with the term "pre UPU" which is more suitable, but that's just my opinion and i believe you'll never hear this term elsewhere.
 The last one is a letter from London in the 14 march 1864 to Szczecin via Ostende (what about to take another way?). Transit postmark (AUS ENGLAND PER AACHEN FRANCO). In this case, the whole postage rate has been paid with a stamp of 6p, divided in 2 1/2p for the internal delivery and 3 1/2p the the transit to Szczecin.
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Mar 25, 2021 19:06:09 GMT
I have a few old covers from Britain...Here is a 1839 cover to start. Robert
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Mar 25, 2021 19:15:28 GMT
Here is an 1836 cover from Britain. Robert
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Mar 25, 2021 19:49:42 GMT
Here is a 1838 stampless cover from Britain. Robert
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WERT
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What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Mar 25, 2021 19:54:20 GMT
Here is a stampless cover from 185? Britain Robert    |
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Post by daniel on Mar 25, 2021 20:13:56 GMT
I was looking through a box I had in storage and found this little cover. It looks like it was mailed in a post office on Piccadilly St., Westminster, London on November 27, 1852. The next day it was processed at the London GPO and there given the octagonal transit marking. It then passed over the Atlantic via ship to New York receiving an additional New York Packet transit marking. I am not sure whether the "3 cents" marking was applied in New York or Hartford, but my guess would be New York.  Hi smauggie , that's a great cover. I recognised the 3 cent mark from my copy of 'Unpaid and Underpaid Mail 1840 to 1921 England and Wales' by R I Johnson (published by Robson Lowe 1982). Very similar examples are shown as Accountancy Marks, see below. Such markings would have been applied at the Office of Exchange in London or Liverpool. So, presumably London in your example. Further research shows that Accountancy Marks were used by countries with bilateral revenue sharing agreements from 1843 to 1876. In the case of mail to the USA, the 1848 Anglo-American Postal Treaty applies, see this pdf by Julian H Jones from the TPO & Seapost Society. This tells us that prior to 1849, mail to the USA could only be sent to the port of the destination country, and the recipient had to pay and arrange for the letter to be further onforwarded. The treaty allowed for the exchange of letters between London and Liverpool, New York and Boston. Letters could be prepaid or sent on a postage due basis. In the case of your cover, the New York 24 postmark is a postage due mark indicating that 24 cents needed to be paid, consisting of 3 cents for Great Britain inland postage, 5 cents for US inland postage and 16 cents for ocean postage. The 3 cent mark was not in itself a postage due mark but used to note, for accountancy purposes only, how much was due or owed to the British Post Office on each letter. A settlement was made between the two postal authorities on the balance due each month by a transfer of gold.  Scan_20210325 by Daniel, on Flickr |
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Mar 25, 2021 21:51:19 GMT
Here is a stampless cover from 185? Britain Robert Robert what makes this a cover from Britain? I don’t see any English markings, I read New Brunswick ........ and your biographical notes have no British reference. |
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WERT
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Post by WERT on May 19, 2021 16:06:28 GMT
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WERT
Departed
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What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on May 24, 2021 13:14:36 GMT
Hi vikingeck....You are correct...Cancel is New Brunswick New Jersey USA
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anglobob
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Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Jun 25, 2021 17:00:49 GMT
Due to the lack of a postal service to Ecuador,my buying habits have been curtailed and I have to rely on auctions from the stamp clubs here and in Quito.Now and again,I have found some interesting...and cheap...items.I found this stampless cover mailed to a Mr William Jeffs who was a fairly well- known bookseller in London.The shop was located in Burlington Arcade,Piccadilly.This Arcade is still open and is a popular attraction,although the book shop is no longer open.The markings on the envelope are unfortunately not very clear but possibly it dates from 1831.  |
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and price rise in 1 year 3d (thruppence) to 6d sixpence (a tanner)
