Admin
Administrator
Posts: 2,644
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Post by Admin on Jul 30, 2013 22:17:56 GMT
I running a poll to get a ideal of what members want, This way the silent members will be able to have a say.
I dislike image hosting sites, so many times I will visit a forum and find a tread I really would like to read. Then I find images are no longer available. This is from many causes Member has close the image hosting account or its no longer active, Or the member has left the forum and close the account attached to the forum. It was brought to my attention some members had used files that was 13mb and when members would open the tread the images took a long time to load.
By having images uploaded to the post using the ADD ATTACHMENT feature all images are stored on this server and will always be available long after the poster is gone to the big bourse in the sky. At the moment the image is shown as a thumbnail which can be clicked to full size.
Some members will love one way and other's a different way.
I running a poll to get feedback that I will review to see what is the best way to go.
I JUST DONT WANT TO SEE THIS FORUM IN 10 YEARS WITH ALL THE GREAT POSTS FROM THE EARLY DAYS HAVING NO IMAGES. I have started to notice this on other forums when you find one of the very early post. I want TSF to have all the information & images available for future students of philately . This is something I have run into far to many times when I do research
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Post by jkjblue on Jul 30, 2013 23:14:55 GMT
Tuscany 1851 Scott 6 4 Crazie green "Lion of Tuscany" (Uploaded from computer) I was surprised I could upload as the image was 532 kb, and I thought the limit was 300 kb? ( The upload attachment has a limit of 1 mb now). ! Italian Colonies (uploaded from computer) The original image was 1.49 mb, and so required downsizing before uploading. A pain! Marshall Islands 1901 Scott 23 2m blue "Hohenzollern" (image hosted at Picasa) Easy! And I have thousands of images to share if relevant to discussions. A couple of comments.... • I can. of course, upload from my computer. But the files are scattered, on several computers, I have to hunt for them, and many are too big and have to be downsized to meet requirements. I would tend not to share images as much (Human Nature!) • The files I have on Picasa are organized, can be quickly found,and I can share easily. I think you should allow both, with encouragement to upload from one's own computer, as per your preference. ( But do you really want to get into the image hosting business on a large scale? ) Anyway, I really appreciate the effort that has been put into this site, and I believe too it has great potential.
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Philatarium
Member
Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,032
What I collect: Primarily focused on Japan, but lots of other material catches my eye as well ...
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Post by Philatarium on Jul 31, 2013 1:47:56 GMT
It's not just a choice between a 3rd-party image hosting site and this site, but also those people who have their own websites (like revcollector and others). I've had my own work-related (non-philatelic) site since 1999, and hosted my own stamp images on there for items for sale on eBay, etc., back in the day. Those images are still there. In 2008, when web-hosting and domain registration got even easier, I created philatarium.com, where I now have thousands of images stored, in all kinds of file sizes to meet a variety of needs. When I started my first site, I had to optimize images for download times assuming a 28.8k baud modem, so I know the techniques to balance image size (both image dimensions (height and width) and actual file size (the amount of space it occupies on a disc, which also affects page-load times). It's much less of an issue now, but I'm trained on it from back when it was critical consideration, so I don't find it a credible argument as a reason for using this board's mandatory web-hosting now. I have never deleted an image file from my sites on the web. That's getting close to 15 years now. So please consider cases such as mine, as it is needlessly complicated to reload and upload here, when I could simply paste in a url. Additionally, as I stated on another thread, I'm very concerned about the small size of the thumbnail images when hosted on here. If they were reasonably larger, I'd have less of a problem. Take a look at this thread on another stamp board, Stampbears. They allow optional image hosting, and when hosted on there, the images are quite a bit larger before they turn into a thumbnail representing a larger image. I think you can see this thread without joining the site: www.stampbears.com/t4036-sotw-comp-1993-submit-your-imagesI think this is much more enjoyable to look at, especially when looking at the designs on stamps. And when people here have posted images that represent covers, or full pages of an exhibit or an album page, it's often impossible to even see what the image is without having to click on it and look it in another tab. I don't look at the images most of the time now, because it requires a series of steps to look at them and to go back to the original page, when images of a reasonable size could be embedded within the post. I'm concerned that, if you require mandatory hosting on this site (and I've never even heard of any site doing this before), and if you cannot significantly increase the default size of thumbnails, then, over time, people will grow irritated with how small the images are, and will participate less and less. Also, if you want to continue to attract stamp professionals, specialists and experts, I think many of them, if they already have their own web resources, will resent this requirement. As Jim/jkjblue said above, the more obstacles you put in people's way, the fewer will people jump over them. It's a very noble effort to preserve images, and although I don't seem to have run into problems with broken images as much as Jack has, I think mandatory image-hosting here is a case where the cure is worse than the symptom. I would please ask people to vote to allow "both". -- Dave
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cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on Jul 31, 2013 2:14:04 GMT
I gave my two cents on the hosting issue on another thread (I will choose to have my images hosted here, for now, but I don't want to create roadblocks for others who will have an easier time linking), so I'll just pipe up to say that I agree with the concerns about the small size of the thumbnailed/previewed images. It is an annoyance that I can hope can be addressed.
Growing pains...thanks to all who are helping work through them.
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Post by Perfs14 on Jul 31, 2013 2:14:16 GMT
I think that Jack's point of not losing images when a member goes or a member's image site goes is the most valid. This happened on another site that I have belonged to for along time - the image host had some sort of spasm and all our images were lost. The Admin was able to recover some after a lot of work, but most are lost to this day. I think it's essential that, bandwidth, permitting we store all images on here. Please think about it and vote for "No2 - Do not allow outside image hosting. All images will be stored on TSF server so they won't be lost"
Thank you Alex
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Philatarium
Member
Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,032
What I collect: Primarily focused on Japan, but lots of other material catches my eye as well ...
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Post by Philatarium on Jul 31, 2013 2:51:56 GMT
This board has been active for about 10 days. I think it's admirable to be thinking 10 years down the road, but if you significantly limit the ability to manage images on here -- and stamps are a visual medium -- then I think this board has to worry about getting through the next few months first.
If we're concerned about longevity, then what about ProBoards? Right now, we're totally dependent on them and their hosting. All they need is to be acquired by another company with a slightly different objective, and all bets are off. I have a storage unit with a special section filled with hardware and software that was dependent on one company to deliver a product or service and became instantly obsolete when they got out of that business, were acquired, or couldn't get their next round of funding.
Also, if long-term planning is the reigning argument here, then Jack needs to plan for some kind of succession management as well. Right now, Jack simply has to flip the switch and this place is gone. I don't believe he would ever do that, but I used to consult on assessing business vulnerabilities, and both of the ones I've mentioned here are significant, if this board is concerned about longevity.
In fact, I would say the most vulnerable position is the proposed one, to have mandatory image hosting by this one company. (Many pbpBB-based boards are open-source, with people running it themselves, and not dependant on a 3rd-party provider like ProBoards. I have the option to run one with my web-hosting package. I wouldn't dare do it myself, but in doing so you're dependent on open-source support rather than single-company ownership.)
Just some other considerations.
I've seen 3 stamp discussion boards become shadows of their former selves within the last 2-3 months. I don't want to see that happen here.
-- Dave
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cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on Jul 31, 2013 3:17:56 GMT
I take at face value the statements that requiring hosting here will limit contributions. In the tug-of-war between more content that will likely be around as long as the site is around and some content that will almost certainly be around as long as the site is around, more content now wins out, for me.
'tis better to have looked and lost, than never to have looked at all. (Who knew Alfie was a stamp collector?)
On a practical level, has anyone done the math on the bandwidth that a successful site will need? Is it going to be cost effective to host everything here, if this takes off?
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Post by Perfs14 on Jul 31, 2013 3:55:23 GMT
Dave, you make some very good points. But,in a way, they are self-defeating. If the board goes, for whatever reason: ProBoards folds or Jack gets sick of it or a meteor hits...well, who will really care where the images have gone?
In any discussion like this one must assume continuity, or else the whole thing is nonsense. Do you not build a house because it might burn down?
So, assuming that we will be here longer 2-3 months, storing the images here is still the most efficient and secure IMO.
alex
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Post by Perfs14 on Jul 31, 2013 3:59:31 GMT
cjd, as far as bandwidth goes, I guess it might depend on how many of us will actually support(financially)its prolonged existence.
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Admin
Administrator
Posts: 2,644
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Post by Admin on Jul 31, 2013 6:12:36 GMT
OK When I was in School Today ( Yes I still go to school) I had a chat with one of the teacher's that's a techy and brought this subject to him. After a long chat about the pro's and con's I have decided to allow both.
With todays computers tablets/smartphones more and more people now use a SkyDrive and image hosting for storage. Its the way people store information. I will still continue to ask if you could please use the add attachment on this forum.
I also understand that many will have all their images on a image host site and its double the work to use out up loader. Once in a while I will see a very good post and I may add thumbnails to the post but will keep your images intact.
So from now on you may use image hosting, please try and keep the images to a size that will not slow down the forum, One member had images from Flicker that were 13.5MB and took a long time to load.
Yes there is a continuity plan for TSF my wife knows about it and I have a note in my album which on my death the admin password and information will be passed along to the moderators.
In case I turn sick and unable to get to the computer the mods have access to the forum and also my email that my wife will check. So if I sick and unable to be a admin the mod team will look after the forum.
About bandwidth the generous donation that member have given are used to cover that cost and also keep the site add free.
I am looking at a different platform, but I never thought the forum would have been as successful as it has been. To be honest I thought maybe a dozen people would have joined a few posts made and that be it. I am blown away buy the activity and the numbers that have joined.
Please also realise I am very new to this admin thing, its a learning curve, its very different when you are behind the wheel of a forum. Sometimes you have a ideal but it may not be the best. I just want to make sure this forum is well run and become something people will enjoy to visit and spend time.
I will still keep the poll running, but after a hard think about the images I feel that allowing both will be in the best interest of the forum. But please if you can use the add attachment. We are working about making the thumbnails larger. I have a tech member working on that in a test forum and once we find a solution it will be introduce to the forum.
Thanks
Admin
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Philatarium
Member
Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,032
What I collect: Primarily focused on Japan, but lots of other material catches my eye as well ...
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Post by Philatarium on Jul 31, 2013 19:02:51 GMT
Thanks, Jack! I think this will prove to be a good solution for now.
-- Dave
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tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,269
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Jul 31, 2013 19:46:41 GMT
Shortly after joining my first stamp forum, I began using Imageshack as my image host. It wasn't until a forum member complained that, when viewing my posts, the only images he saw were those of a "green frog" symbol. I subsequently began uploading all of my images to the forum site. Hopefully that type of issue won't repeat itself here with images hosted offsite.
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Post by Perfs14 on Jul 31, 2013 20:03:41 GMT
The poll tells the story, so I am happy that we have both methods. Only time will tell which method is more reliable and effective. Personally I will continue with the attachment button as I view it as one of the best options on this board - it makes it unique. Good job Jack,
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 4,884
What I collect: Cinderellas and some Ephemera from Great Britain, France and Israel plus a few beautiful bits from elsewhere !! Topical interests include Flags & Judaica, the latter with an emphasis on the Jewish National Fund.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Jul 31, 2013 21:03:58 GMT
Shortly after joining my first stamp forum, I began using Imageshack as my image host. It wasn't until a forum member complained that, when viewing my posts, the only images he saw were those of a "green frog" symbol. I subsequently began uploading all of my images to the forum site. Hopefully that type of issue won't repeat itself here with images hosted offsite. That was me !!!!!! I was the ' Frog' complainer ! I remember that well....good old days.
I think I'm going to cry.......
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Aug 22, 2013 5:11:21 GMT
AND THE PROBLEM WITH FROGS.......
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