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Post by gstamps on Nov 3, 2023 8:57:40 GMT
rod222, 10c stamp is from TETUAN/Marruecos. If you notice on the 5c stamp the upper rectangle is bigger than on the 25c and I think that: 1 - Correos Español 2-Certificado In the initial post, I insisted on 25 stamps because I noticed that it is cataloged as RR (very rare) in the Klaseboer catalog.
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Post by gstamps on Nov 3, 2023 9:16:37 GMT
Now I noticed that the 5c stamp has a yellow-brown overprint and not carmine. Maybe someone has a specialized catalog and can help me
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 3, 2023 10:10:45 GMT
gstamps Thanks for the TETUAN, that's what I wanted to look at. The tripartite cancelling indicia, comes in lots of slightly differing formats BARCELONA for example, the middle box has a partition on the left hand side with a large "S" Yes, I agree your 25c looks like a scarcity (I Have the KLASEBOER catalogues, I'll have a look for you).... Yes rated RR =VERY RARE It seem the 10c and 25c regularly were cancelled with the registration hammers. Here is a CERTIFICADO with MARRUECOSat the bottom (Excuse the scan, this dates to my scanner from 2005, when I first began to scan my stamps) Opinion only : Your yellow brown opt, is just a deterioration from carmine Klaseboer reads "red opt" (colour changeling )
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Post by gstamps on Nov 3, 2023 11:59:31 GMT
rod222I searched the net for a transaction with the 25c overprinted stamp - I did not find it; I am interested in a market value. I didn't find Mogador on the map you posted (I still think that's what it says on the postal cancellation) In fact, Mogador was in the French Zone of Morocco: I also found the mention that Spain had a post office in Mogador and overprinted Spanish stamps and postal cancellations were used:
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 3, 2023 13:05:28 GMT
gstampsWe have done the best we can, your next step is to find a reliable source you can pursue the journey. (blogs, phil. journalists, Spain professionals) Your best bet, is to begin from a stance that the stamp and or the overprint, is bogus, that means the tripartite indicia hammer, could be from anywhere in Spain. If you get promising remarks, then pay for a certificate. Good Luck.
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Post by gstamps on Nov 4, 2023 7:12:08 GMT
rod222These stamps are part of a batch of inherited stamps that 5-6 years ago (without the experience I have accumulated in these years) I quickly evaluated them in the category under $1 value. Your answers and willingness to dialogue stimulated my desire to continue the search and interesting information resulted. For now, I will stop here and the 25c stamp will be promoted in the "mysterious valuable stamp" category. Unfortunately, I had several stamps from this area/period which I cannot find and which I probably used for exchanges. Thanks for the interesting dialogue - that's the only way we learn.
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 4, 2023 7:41:38 GMT
gstampsYep, that's cool, I do the same, and it's amazing how you often get the answer, unexpectedly years later.
Can you produce a 600dpi scan of the 25c please? and post it here. I'd like to run the software "PMGS Reveal" over the stamp, see if I can lift the Pmk
I'd keep your stamp in a mount, in a special album page with what you have learnt thus far.
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angore
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What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Nov 4, 2023 9:50:27 GMT
As part of my stamp from every country, I discovered there were a lot of stamps used in the region. It seems like everyone had been there. Much was related to World War I.
Morocco French Offices 1891 Morocco British Offices 1898 Morocco German office 1899 Morocco Spanish Offices 1903 Morocco Rio De Oro 1905-1922 1905 Morocco Tetuan 1908-1908 1908 Morocco Spanish Morocco 1914 Morocco French Morocco 1914 Morocco Cape Juby 1916-1948 1916 Morocco French Offices-Tangier 1918-24 1918 Morocco La Aguera 1920-1922 1920 Morocco Spanish Sahara 1924-1976 1924 Morocco British Offices in Tangier 1927 Morocco Ifni 1941-1969 1941 Morocco Great Britain Tangier International City 1948-1950 1948 Morocco Spanish West Africa 1949-1951 1949 Morocco Morocco - Northern zone 1958 Morocco Morocco - Southern zone 1958 Morocco Morocco 1958- 1958 Morocco Spanish Offices in Tangier 1929
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 4, 2023 11:01:58 GMT
As part of my stamp from every country, I discovered there were a lot of stamps used in the region. It seems like everyone had been there. Much was relatted to World War I. angoreBrilliant! I'd like to keep a copy of that, if I may.
As a Worldwide collector, being organised is the trick, I have mine organised with the parent folder called "SPAIN" with the Sub Folders
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Post by nick2302 on Nov 4, 2023 13:37:34 GMT
Morocco is loaded with history. There is quite a bit of history bottled up in that country. Here is a small clip from the web. The history of human habitation in Morocco spans since Lower Paleolithic, with the earliest known being Jebel Irhoud. Much later Morocco was part of Iberomaurusian culture. It dates from the establishment of Mauretania and other ancient Berber kingdoms to the establishment of the Moroccan state by the Idrisid dynasty followed by other Islamic dynasties, through to the colonial and independence periods. Archaeological evidence has shown that the area was inhabited by hominids at least 400,000 years ago. The recorded history of Morocco begins with the Phoenician colonization of the Moroccan coast between the 8th and 6th centuries BCE, although the area was inhabited by indigenous Berbers for some two thousand years before that. In the 5th century BCE, the city-state of Carthage extended its hegemony over the coastal areas. They remained there until the late 3rd century BCE, while the hinterland was ruled by indigenous monarchs. Indigenous Berber monarchs ruled the territory from the 3rd century BCE until 40 CE when it was annexed to the Roman Empire. In the mid-5th century AD, it was overrun by Vandals, before being recovered by the Byzantine Empire in the 6th century. The region was conquered by the Muslims in the early 8th century AD but broke away from the Umayyad Caliphate after the Berber Revolt of 740. Half a century later, the Moroccan state was established by the Idrisid dynasty. Under the Almoravid and the Almohad dynasties, Morocco dominated the Maghreb and Muslim Spain. The Saadi dynasty ruled the country from 1549 to 1659, followed by the Alaouites from 1667 onwards, who have since been the ruling dynasty of Morocco. If you get interested here is the web site I got the clip from. Really an interesting country. marrakechmoroccotourism.com/morocco-history/Nick
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Post by gstamps on Nov 4, 2023 16:29:11 GMT
I'm sorry rod222, I only have the camera from my phone. I hope it helps you: Scott 1 and 1a:
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angore
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Post by angore on Nov 5, 2023 11:21:15 GMT
There are many countries (such as Palestine region) that by being on a major trade route often have a turbulent history,
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Post by gstamps on Nov 5, 2023 17:53:38 GMT
Thanks rod222, I think you're right. I kept looking on the net for a transaction with this stamp - I didn't find it - but instead, seeing so many overprints, I ended up wondering if my overprint is genuine... the missing "S" from "espanol" and the letters "MA" smaller than the others. Most of the carmine/red overprints are more blurred, with the edges of the letters blurred (because of the ink), however my overprint looks strange, I have the impression that the letters are not aligned. I don't recognize the characteristics of a typo overprint, I'm curious to see the back of a stamp where the trace of the overprint can be seen in relief - it doesn't appear on mine
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 5, 2023 23:55:57 GMT
gstamps Yep, I am on the same page, I share your thoughts, I think it healthy to be "dubious". I have given up, on finding a town / city with "MO" in the text, that, bearing in mind, we are faced with the "Anglicised" problems with names. eg : M'diq on the hammer is MEDIK, and Ouda Zem is on the hammer as ZEM OUDA etc. Side note: Tripartite canceller known Top Bar : PAQUETTE POST or similar. For the record, Moroccan Towns and Cities (Cities from pop 50,000 >) Ait Benhaddou Merzouga Ait Benhaddou Ifrane Zagora Chefchaouen Rissani Arfoud Agdz Erfoud El Jebha Karia Ba Mohamed Tinejdad Loulad Ouardigha. Alnif Kasbah of Tifoultoute Zinat Telouet Midelt Azrou Taghazout Taghazout Asilah Foum Zguid Tiznit Tamegroute Sijilmasa Skoura Kalaat M'Gouna Boumalne Dades Karia Ba Mohamed Sijilmasa --------------------- Cities Casablanca Fez[c] Tangier[d] Marrakesh[e] Salé[f] Meknes[g] Rabat[h] Oujda Kenitra Agadir Tetouan Temara Safi Mohammedia Khouribga El Jadida Beni Mellal Aït Melloul Nador Dar Bouazza Taza Settat Berrechid Khemisset Inezgane Ksar El Kebir Larache Guelmim Khenifra Berkane Taourirt Bouskoura Fquih Ben Salah Dcheira El Jihadia Oued Zem El Kelaa Des Sraghna Sidi Slimane Errachidia Guercif Oulad Teima Ben Guerir Tifelt Lqliaa Taroudant Sefrou Essaouira Fnideq Sidi Kacem Tiznit Tan-Tan Ouarzazate Souk El Arbaa Youssoufia Lahraouyine Martil Ain Harrouda Suq as-Sabt Awlad an-Nama Skhirat Ouazzane Benslimane Al Hoceima Beni Ansar M'diq Sidi Bennour Azrou Drargua
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Post by gstamps on Nov 6, 2023 7:02:35 GMT
rod222I give up the search, I could not find information regarding the use of stamps with different overprints in the different areas of influence in Morocco (French/Spanish) The "Correo espanol/Marruecos" overprint was used in the 2 areas. It is possible that postal cancellations are different depending on the area: - Certificado/correo espanol - in the Spanish area - Certificado - in post offices in the French area.
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Post by gstamps on Nov 7, 2023 10:17:30 GMT
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Nov 7, 2023 11:01:30 GMT
gstampsThanks ! The city of Tangier is one of the oldest of North Africa, having been occupied by the Phoenicians, the Carthaginians and later by the Romans. In the year 1481 it was conquered by the Portuguese, until years later when he married Mrs. Catherine of Braganza with Charles II of England, was handed over to the British Crown, stating then that “The recent acquisition of Tangier must be regarded as a jewel of immense value in the Royal Diadem.” Despite such consideration of a jewel of immense value, the English abandoned it, the Arabs recovering their dominion, establishing various European states their Legations in the 19th century. The draft Treaty of 1902 incorporated Tangier into the area of Spanish influence, but must be neutralized so as not to harm Great Britain in the dominion of the Strait of Gibraltar. After various negotiations and several surrenders Spanish that after the defeat of 1898 against the United States United had lost all its political influence, it was signed the Treaty of November 27, 1912. In it, established that Tangier would have an international character, as an enclave within the Spanish Protectorate Zone in Morocco, with the Sultan being represented in Tangier through the so-called Mendub. The outbreak of World War II with the spectacular victories of Hitler's armies, favored the General Franco, eager to develop a policy of Empire and “destiny in the universal”, annulled the regime international that existed in Tangier and united it to our protectorate zone in Morocco.
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 10, 2023 17:29:44 GMT
Received this morning, more Maroc Français (French Morocco) classics. These will go as added specimens to my already done 16 custom pages....plenty of work to do as some pages will need a different configuration. For now these are on vario page, inventoried (Scott numbers). All in All, French Morocco is part of my collection of classic "French Colonies in Africa".
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 11, 2023 19:42:17 GMT
edit: 1st Page with new classic French Morocco stamps and more to come this week......
Have posted some of my pages in this thread but the quantity is too much and I do not wish to hijack TSF
History of Morocco stamps is complicated - I have done pages on the general/french histories but sparing your eyes - they are from Wiki anyway - Just wish I had another reference on these stamps (besides Scott) René
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Post by greaden on Nov 11, 2023 21:19:58 GMT
French Moroccan stamps before 1912 were really 'Offices in Morocco', which are in the same category as the German, Spanish, and British Offices (for the latter, there is an important distinction between the earlier overprints run out of Gibraltar, and the later ones out of Tangier).
In 1912, the Protectorate was established, with the French, Spanish, and Tangier zones separated. In the French zone, the postal systems of the French Offices was merged with the Cherifien service.
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 12, 2023 0:43:19 GMT
French Moroccan stamps before 1912 were really 'Offices in Morocco', which are in the same category as the German, Spanish, and British Offices (for the latter, there is an important distinction between the earlier overprints run out of Gibraltar, and the later ones out of Tangier). In 1912, the Protectorate was established, with the French, Spanish, and Tangier zones separated. In the French zone, the postal systems of the French Offices was merged with the Cherifien service. Agree with you - This would have been posted in the History of Moroccan stamps (I have it prepared) page of history - - yours is more concise (did not want to add an additional page-post) and not add to my pages, stuff you can read on Wiki !! Too many members like long histories.....this is my Stamp Forum LOL ! ( yours too) Interesting when you read the story !! Thanks René
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angore
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Post by angore on Nov 12, 2023 12:03:38 GMT
A first draft of ASFEC Morocco page.
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 12, 2023 13:23:20 GMT
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 13, 2023 0:09:43 GMT
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 13, 2023 0:28:08 GMT
Morocco : Phosphates
Back in 2005, I queried a Philatelic issuance involving East Germany and Morocco (The cynosure of which, I have obviously forgotten)
However, My Philatelic mentor, Mr Blair Harris (Canada) sent me this amazing story on Moroccan Phosphates
In my ignorance, I imagined Morocco in the main, a dry and dusty arid landscape Phosphates? did not make sense !
Scott shows Phosphate Issue anniversaries in 1971, 1991 and 2005
Rodney:
The main producers of phosphate rock and phosphate fertilizers are: - the USA, - the former USSR, - China, - Africa (the Maghreb countries (Morocco, Tunisia), Egypt, Senegal, Togo and South Africa), and - the Middle East.
Morocco:
For myriades of years, vast areas of Africa were covered by a sea where flora and fauna lived. The large homes of this life were localised mainly between the littoral lagoons and the open sea, where enormous quantities of plants accumulated (mainly plankton).
Attracted by the rich zones of this plankton, fish arrived, followed by carnivorous reptiles. On the bed of this sea, the remains of this life settled, making a thousand-year-old accumulation.....
At the end of the secondary age, the sea started its retreat, followed by alternations of emergence and return of the flooding. In the first half of the tertiary age, the continent emerged completely. During these upheavals, this accumulation of the remains of sea life formed the Moroccan Phosphate of today.
Phosphates in Morocco (annual production: 23 million metric tonnes - 50% is exported))
In 1905 A Brives first announced phosphates in the area of Mogador (Essaouira) and around Imintanoute. Until 1935, many controversies occurred between opposing geologists such as L.Joleaud, C.Deperet, P.Russo on the origin of the phosphatic levels.
In 1908, A. Brives identified, for the first time, a level phosphated on the plate of Guergouri, in the south of Marrakech. One year later, he discovered the existence of significant phosphatic formations in the North of Wadi er-Rbia.
During 1911, many prospectors recognize the existence of phosphate (Combelas, Lamolinerie...) But nothing still had been announced in the area between Ben Ahmed and Oued Zem.
In 1917, Commander Burseaux, old Director of the phosphate mines of Gafsa, identified, like "phosphates", the sand used by the soldiers for the construction of works in the surroundings of Zem Wadi.
It is in the area of M�s�ta that you will find the most significant deposits. Indeed, the layer of Ouled Abdoun extends for 10,000 km2 and the content of the ore reaches 75% BPL and more. It is called "the plate of phosphates" or "plate of Ourdirha". This layer extends from Ben Ahmed in Oued Zem from Is in the West, to the region of Khouribga in the North and the region of Fkih Ben Salah. Towards the south of Is, it extends beyond Kasbah Tadla to the region of Zaouia Ech Sheik.
Phosphatic deposits exist under Beni Mellal. The layer of Ouled Abdoun was in the past known and is one of the most exploited phosphatic deposits of Morocco. It is most significant, as well, for its coverage and by the high quality it contains.
After the discovery of phosphates in the area of Zem Wadi - El Borouj with the inexhaustible layers, the layer of Gantour and Chichaoua also came to be added to the list. The layer of Gantour occupies the major part of the plate of the same name, ranging between the old solid masses of Rehamma in the North and Jebilet in the South. It extends on for approximately 110 km East to west. It is limited in the west by the hills of Mouissat and is prolonged in the East to banks of the Tessaout..
Towards the south, the layer disappears in-depth. With the creation of the Office Cheriffien des Phosphates in 1920, the period of phosphate pioneers finishes.
Moroccan phosphate layers are exceptionally significant because of their surface area, their high quality content and their remarkable stratigraphic continuity. These layers represent a sedimentary phenomenon of exceptional size.
Production currently centers around four sites: Khouribga, Youssoufia, Bengu�rir, and Boucra�-La�youne.
I hope that this answers your question.
Blair (TC)
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 13, 2023 16:33:11 GMT
Going back to French Morocco Stamps - classics - another page that follows the previous one posted. On the previous page, I did not do a history of French Morocco. This time I add the fact that the 1st stamps came from "French Offices in Morocco" prior to the french Protectorate period. .............more to come
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renden
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What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Nov 13, 2023 18:13:08 GMT
My 3rd recently posted Morocco stamps page (of early stamps) making (for now) 17 pages of French Maroc stamps. I do not intend to hijack our Forum with 17 pages Some have been posted, others not.
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