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Post by tallanent on Apr 13, 2018 0:29:20 GMT
  Way outside my comfort zone - but my feeling is that this is a good cover ... Can some one ID the stamps for me please and if possible give me an idea on a valuation ... What I know from looking at the cover .... Used from Firenze (hope I read that right) - dated 7 September 1861 - stamps cancelled with this CDS Boxed PD on the front showing full postage paid to destination What appears to be French transit mark (ship to the UK) - dated 8 September - on the rear London Paid arrival mark in red on the front - 11 September H & K packet mark on rear - 12 September - this for the crossing to Ireland Kingstown arrival mark - 12 September 1861 ... I am confident on the route details just the stamps and value I have an issue with. If anyone here collects these issues / cover - once I have an idea of value I would be happy to do a discount (as thanks for the help) Allan |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 1:51:32 GMT
Way outside my comfort zone - but my feeling is that this is a good cover ... I don't have time to go into in depth but... You have an unusual cover The top stamp appears to be a general Sardinia stamp of low value The bottom one is from Tuscany (provisional gov't) Based on the value and appearance - a very high CV stamp Both on the same cover  I cannot tell from the size and quality if they are genuine - although they seem to be The difficulty is that there are a lot of printing and varieties of the top one and some are worth a lot. The bottom one only has one printing and a couple of extremely rare varieties Both stamps on cover may have significant history & value With a better scan of just the stamps I may be able to tell more... |
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Post by tallanent on Apr 13, 2018 2:05:52 GMT
Thanks for the reply with the info Below (I hope) a better scan of the stamps  If you need larger - then I will gladly do so and attach as a link - just let me know Allan |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 13:10:02 GMT
The scans are lacking detail. If you are using an all-in-one printer/scanner and software provided, then that is its limit. Anyway I can see enough detail to make an educated decision. The 20c is genuine and it meets all the criteria areas below  Here is an SG CV 2014 that you may be more familiar with  What it greatly lacks is that this 4th series was printed from 1855-63 and there are 40 varieties of the 20c with 10 issued in 1861 The CV's are very different. Forgeries are generally somewhat crude The 40c Tuscany is easier to peg as there was only one variety. Unfortunately, the printing was very poor and even the best examples are somewhat crude. Based on the one below, I would be inclined to consider yours as genuine but the finer traits are difficult to see Forgeries generally tend to have better details but wrong ones Fournier made a good forgery as did Usigli who used original paper and plates.  SG CV  I cannot explain the 2 stamps on one cover although there were periods when stamps from different areas were used. I am a little concerned with the cancel quality and the fact that the 40 c appears to be over the Paid stamp. As far as the cover, if it is completely genuine then the stamps are in fine condition and usually worth about 3x more on cover My Vaccari cat. 2005 lists the 40c on cover as 1000 Euros Added this - the 20c on cover for the 1861 varieties anywhere from 50 to over 1000 Euros Both together on cover could make for a very nice find Definitely needs further investigation |
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Post by tallanent on Apr 13, 2018 15:59:28 GMT
Thanks for all the details and taking the time to explain ....
Just took a look at the PD mark under a glass and it does have the impression on the stamp ... so that seems OK
Also just noted the values on the cover for the stamps ... 1/6d and 12/- .... so has been around for a while
I will try a little more searching - then will probably just drop it into stock
Regards ... Allan
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 17:17:09 GMT
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Post by tallanent on Apr 13, 2018 18:42:07 GMT
Thanks again ... email sent
Now just to wait and see how far off the mark I was and in which direction ...
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Post by tallanent on Apr 13, 2018 22:14:55 GMT
Right ... just back in and have had an email back with a provisional valuation (pending confirmation) which also confirmed all the points mentioned in this thread by nl1947
Any one want to take a guess at the value given and I will post the details in a few hours time ...
My guess based on the research I did based on the details given above was way out - but I will not say in which direction ...
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Post by tallanent on Apr 14, 2018 10:30:10 GMT
Well no takers on guess the price and as it is the weekend any confirmation email will be from Monday now ...
Based on the details above I priced the item at £575 and dropped it into sock on my site
I thought this was actually pushing my luck a little bit and would have been willing to haggle on this ....
The provisional valuation that came back was ... 1650 Euros .... which is around £1430
I am stunned .....
Full details will be added to the listing once I have this confirmed and the item will go back on sale (currently showing as out of stock) ...
My thanks again to nll947 for helping with this and pointing me in the right direction
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 15:18:41 GMT
Glad to see it averaged in my ballpark figure.
If you don't have takers on your website, you now have an excellent alternative auction house.
I can see their interest, very few Tuscany shield covers come up for sale
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Post by tallanent on Apr 14, 2018 21:37:40 GMT
This shows the power of these types of boards - both for of us that have been collecting for many years as well as those who are new to the hobby
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Post by tallanent on Apr 16, 2018 12:03:57 GMT
Right - I have received confirmation emails as was as emails from a couple of other places I asked ... the details are now all updated on the site and for reference read as follows Cover with Sardina 20c blue and Tuscany 40c red on cover to Ireland Used from Firenze - dated 7 September 1861 - stamps cancelled with this CDS Boxed PD on the front showing full postage paid to destination this just ties the corner of the stamp What appears to be French transit mark (ship to the UK) - dated 8 September - on the rear London Paid arrival mark in red on the front - 11 September H & K packet mark on rear - 12 September - this for the crossing to Ireland Kingstown arrival mark - 12 September 1861 The Sardina stamp is difficult on cover The Tuscany provisional on cover is quite scarce Very few Tuscany shield covers come up for sale This cover to Ireland using both issues to pay the full postage rate is the only example I can find in various auction searches A copy was sent to Vaccari autions for their opinion and a provisional valuation was returned of 1650 Euros ... this being £1430 - (April 2018). The confirmation valuation gave a range of 1000 to 2000 depending on any variations on the stamps -this being between £864 and £1728 Another auction house in Germany gave a valuation of 750 - 850 Euros ... this being £648 - £734 Internet searches show that the 40c stamp alone in this condition sell for £150 upwards and £300 upwards on cover for internal use. Use with additional stamps, overseas destinations and the markings will increase the value Priced based on the lower estimate ... Some of this detail confirms what I was told in this thread ... but the valuations vary across quite a broad range and thus I have placed this for sale at £600 link to this item on siteMy offer to discount this to members here still stands - just contact me via the board or on this thread and we can sort something out |
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