blaamand
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Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 10, 2018 23:28:56 GMT
As a general WW collector, the classical stamps of Afghanistan has always appeared to me almost as 'dark matter'. Difficult to find and difficult to comprehend. And honostly, Scott is not making life easier. So, before making my custom pages, I decided to study these interesting issues in more detail. I found lot's of interesting reference material online, with much more info and explanations on the various issues and how to identify them. Big thanks to the ones that invented the web - and to the ones that has studied these stamps and made their stuff available for anyone - even for small fish collectors as myself. So, I used a couple of nights for studying and for capturing the key elements for identification on my pages. Example given the values is in local script (Pashto and Dari?), how to identify them? Where do one find the date/year in those complicated designs? And is the inscribed year really that important for seperating one issue from another as Scott's liistings can make one believe? The answer to the last question is that it is not, most issues can actually be identified without needing to read the year. I noted the essence on my pages, so for anyone struggling to understand them, maybe something of this might be useful for other general collectors as well - so here you go. Some recommended reading: The_Classic_IssuesClassic specialized reference collection - FeldmanAfghanphilatelyStampsociety.org/stamps-world/afghanistanGood luck to you all with these iconic stamps! Jon
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angore
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Posts: 5,342
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jun 11, 2018 11:08:59 GMT
I like Alexander the Great's quote.
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 11, 2018 11:40:42 GMT
A key element and challenge for identifying these classic Afgan stamps is to find out the value on the stamps... It's fascinating / frustrating to see how the value 'inscriptions' are looking different from one stamp to another. I just updated my Page number 4, with an extended table below to indicate how these value tablets looks like on the 'Post office Colored' issues. I had previously included images from Michel and a Feldman reference collection, however these did not exactly match som actual stamps from Afghan Philately website So, I've now included actual stamp scans of the value tablets for these issues as well. Hope this might be useful Jon
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 11, 2018 11:44:44 GMT
I like Alexander the Great's quote. Thanks angore - Yeah, almost like Alexander forecasted the challenges other major powers would face centuries later....the British, Russians and US and even UN forces - I guess they all did the same experience one way or another
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 11, 2018 20:14:34 GMT
Here's quite an interesting feature of the Afghani stamps. The image below is taken from a strip of 5 offered by Feldman, see this Cataloge - see lot 10098. Notice how the designs vary considerably - the lions look like 3 different species Afghanistan 1871 - 1 Abasi - Plate 4 - the inner circle without dots - Michel #3 IV / Scott #7 Quite peculiar! With these significant differences these stamps must be great for plating Unfortunately the stamps do not come around too often in 'normal' collections tough, thus making plating challenging that way. The early issues of Afghanistan were printed by lithography from stones. Each design on the stone was made individually (unlike copying from a master die) so the stamps vary considerably in appearance and design details for each position. This is part of what can make some value inscriptions difficult to identify - particularily when also poor printing and worn stones come into play for later printings. Anyone else interested in Afghani stamps?
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brightonpete
Departed
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Jun 12, 2018 0:45:43 GMT
And here I thought sorting out Luxembourg officials was a bit of a pain! Interesting that they used stones to print the stamps. I suppose you use what is at hand, and stones were plenty.
After checking out stamp world for these stamps, I’d need to win the lottery to collect any of them!
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 12, 2018 8:27:13 GMT
And here I thought sorting out Luxembourg officials was a bit of a pain! Interesting that they used stones to print the stamps. I suppose you use what is at hand, and stones were plenty. After checking out stamp world for these stamps, I’d need to win the lottery to collect any of them! Haha, yes they should have had enough stones !! These stamps are certainly not common, and I think these are in the category that are harder to find than what the catalog values may suggest. Many of the Lions heads, excluding the 'Tablet issue', are actually 'affordable', however until now I have still not found any of them in all the WW lots and collections I have bought. Traded some from my brother, though I'd say the Inverted officials from Luxembourg are even more challenging, tough...would love to see yours !!
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brightonpete
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Jun 12, 2018 12:57:31 GMT
And here I thought sorting out Luxembourg officials was a bit of a pain! Interesting that they used stones to print the stamps. I suppose you use what is at hand, and stones were plenty. After checking out stamp world for these stamps, I’d need to win the lottery to collect any of them! Haha, yes they should have had enough stones !! These stamps are certainly not common, and I think these are in the category that are harder to find than what the catalog values may suggest. Many of the Lions heads, excluding the 'Tablet issue', are actually 'affordable', however until now I have still not found any of them in all the WW lots and collections I have bought. Traded some from my brother, though I'd say the Inverted officials from Luxembourg are even more challenging, tough...would love to see yours !! I barely have any officials, and they mainly are used. What get me is the variety of different perf's for their early issues. Why so many variations? I am just trying to design & print out album pages, in hopes that one day they will be filled. Although, only one space for each, as perf varieties don't mean very much to me, unless of course they come imperforate.
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,654
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jun 12, 2018 13:37:33 GMT
Here's quite an interesting feature of the Afghani stamps. The image below is taken from a strip of 5 offered by Feldman, see this Cataloge - see lot 10098. Notice how the designs vary considerably - the lions look like 3 different species Quite peculiar! With these significant differences these stamps must be great for plating Unfortunately the stamps do not come around too often in 'normal' collections tough, thus making plating challenging that way. The early issues of Afghanistan were printed by lithography from stones. Each design on the stone was made individually (unlike copying from a master die) so the stamps vary considerably in appearance and design details for each position. This is part of what can make some value inscriptions difficult to identify - particularily when also poor printing and worn stones come into play for later printings. Anyone else interested in Afghani stamps?Jon, thanks for starting this thread and for the informative posts of your excellent and comprehensive album pages. To answer your question, I am definitely interested in these classic issues of Afghanistan, but I am not sure if I have much of anything to contribute other than my interest! I will take a quick look this afternoon, but if memory serves me correctly, I may not have any of these. Unfortunately, the clear differences which you show from stamp to stamp for these early issues, while making it easier to plate them, also make it harder to identify possible forgeries. That fact combined with some pretty substantial catalogue values has made me wary of making any major purchases. I will have a look at my holdings later today and see if there is anything worth posting. I am enjoying the informative thread and discussion in any case!
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 12, 2018 16:13:46 GMT
Haha, I understand your pain, quite a few perforation varieties on some of those Luxembourg series. Personally I do not mind having lots of empty spaces on my pages, so I rather prefer to include spaces for most of the varieties so I have a slot for them when I should be fortunate to find them! I hardly have any of those Luxembourg officials myself....but lots of empty slots : Here's a image of my current Vario page, to be transferred to custom made album page whenever I get the chance... Unfortunately the Grande Vario pages are to big for my scanner bed, thus the scans do not cover entire album page . Here are lots of other empty spaces for perforation varieties.... Apologies for taking focus away from Afghanistan for a moment, better get back on track!
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 12, 2018 17:54:24 GMT
Beryllium Guy - thank you for the kind words and for reading my post with interest. I'm more or less in the same boat as you actually, I have only a couple myself - you probably have more than me. Anyway, that doesn't stop me for preparing my custom pages .... I have undertaken a major process of transferring my entire WW collection from stockbooks (160 x 64 pgs ) to a combination of custom made pages (until 1940) and Vario (after 1940). So, I am starting at the letter 'A' - and Afghanistan just had to be done, even tough I hardly have any classical stamps at all for populating the pages The study of these iconic issues are very interesting nontheless. Earlier I were reluctant to even consider these stamps - due to lack of knowledge, probably - now I am mentally prepared for taking on some of that 'black matter'. Spot on! You just said what I've been concerned about as well - seems one really need a very specialized reference for splitting the good from the bad. I haven't actually searched for that quite yet - first I need some actual stamps to examine Then again it seems risky to actively purchase any of them before knowing more about the bad ones. Does anyone have a good reference for detecting Afghani forgeries? Jon
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 12, 2018 17:57:37 GMT
Please do - anyone
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Post by 1840to1940 on Jun 12, 2018 18:54:08 GMT
I became fascinated with early Afghanistan from the way stamps were cancelled by tearing out pieces. But when I tried to find out more, I realized I couldn't make heads or tales of what was in Scott. Sometimes I could figure out the denominations but had no clue as to where the dates were hiding. So I got copies of the corresponding pages from Stanley Gibbons and Michel, searched websites and auctions online, and eventually ordered Robert Jack's very helpful catalog: Afghanistan 1870-1900. By way of example, the date numerals for Scott #109-176 are described as "interweaved with the text." See the image below which I put together to help me sort this out (sorry about the hard to see red arrows). 1298 is the year in Arabic (١٢٩٨). Although I own a few actual stamps, it dawned on me that I didn't have the time to give these the attention they deserve so I never went further.
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Philatarium
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Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,032
What I collect: Primarily focused on Japan, but lots of other material catches my eye as well ...
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Post by Philatarium on Jun 12, 2018 19:23:20 GMT
blaamand: My apologies if you've already explained your technique elsewhere on the site, but how are you creating the slips with the white lettering on black? My guess is it's by creating, in Word or another application, a black background fill and then applying a white font color for the lettering, but, when printing this out, doesn't this consume a large amount of black ink or toner? It looks great, though! And I'm hoping you've found a better way than what I've just described. Well done!
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 12, 2018 20:05:48 GMT
1840to1940 - Thank you for contributing!! You are pointing on precisly one of the concerns I also had previously - but which I now realize really is not that much of a challenge. The thing is that the listings in Scott makes one believe that it is key to dechifre the year on all of these classics. In reality, this is simply misleading - and this is only causing unnecessarry confusion for the ones not familiar with these stamps. Example given - all the circular stamps without a lion (Scott #109-176, as the stamp in your post) - they ALL have '1298' in the design - so there is really no reason to worry about them is there? This design cannot be confused with any other (as far as I am aware anyway - maybe some revenues etc..?). The same is actually the case for all the other issues as wel - the design differences themselves and/or value inscriptions are sufficient to identify which series it belongs to. The question is - why does Scott then not rather put emphasis on a decent description of the differences in design rather than the 'useless', awkard and 'terrifying' year inscriptions? The later is something I have tried to achieve on my pages - example given see the pages from 1875 onwards. No 'year' is needed, simply because the designs themselves is sufficient for identification. Which was also the driver for me to share with you guys in the first place. In retrorespect, I could even have removed reference for 'year dated' for all the series prior to 1875 as well. The 1873-1874 issues does have identical designs, however they will be identified by different value inscriptions, as the same values were not issued both years. All the issues prior to 1875 can be identified by a combination of the outer ornaments (outside the circular design) and the value inscriptions. I opted to keep the 'year dates' as reference in case one find stamps that has been cut to shape (and the ornaments have been cut away). I am confident that if Scott had done a better job in describing the different designs, less collectors would have been having the experience 1840to18940 shared with us. I was in the same 'dark place' myself, reluctant to take interest in them, mainly due to these reasons. On another note, to be fair, it should be said that the images in Scott are actually really good for these issues (most of them anyway) - so I guess Scott expect each collector to study the images and recognise the differences themselves. If so, they should not have included the years' tough.... The simple key elements for identifying each series is included on my album pages. I hope this might be useful, in contrast to Scott (or Steiner). I realize the images on my pages are 'dull', and may be hard to see. This is done on purpose because these are supposed to be actual album pages, and I do not want the images on the pages to look like the real thing - and even look much better than the actual stamps I would happen to find... If anyone is interested, I can send the pages on pdf with 'normal' images. Jon
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 12, 2018 20:21:45 GMT
Philatarium - Thanks for the kudos ! Yes, I have found a better way The set-up on my Luxembourg pages was an earlier project/test-phase, which I have now abondoned. It was too time consuming to first make a database for feeding to the 'ID tags', printing, cutting and aligning all the 'ID tags' on the Vario pages. After a while I also experienced that some of the 'ID tags' started to shift in the pockets, and that was the end of it. So, I have rather started to make 'proper' pages instead for the classical stuff, due to the benefit for decent identification of each variety etc. I will continue using Varios for the largest bulk of stamps from 1940 onwards, but the need for making ID tags for each variety is then greatly reduced with more modern printing methods and less varieties. You are right tough, the 'ID tags' were made by excel, printed with black ink on white paper, requiring quite a lot of ink - I did not want to spend money on a printer capable of printing with white ink, those are $$$ !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2018 20:48:28 GMT
Does anyone have a good reference for detecting Afghani forgeries? Jon There are a few very hard to get books on plating of the stamps and forgeries but their age does not provide decent images. I would search for books written by Robert Jack - they are in English, recent and quite good - he has a website.
Forgeries were mainly made outside the country by the Senf brothers and their ignorance of the local script is evident. Local forgeries are generally decent. There are also several bogus issues.
For anyone interested - send an email address to my PM - I have a 60 page article on early plating and some forgery articles.
Overall if you're looking to buy these stamps, it may be best to deal with a member of the Afghan Phil. Society than any auction site but I make no guarantees
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Philatarium
Member
Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,032
What I collect: Primarily focused on Japan, but lots of other material catches my eye as well ...
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Post by Philatarium on Jun 12, 2018 22:37:55 GMT
blaamand Jon, thanks very much for your reply! Although the black labels on the black Varios look great, I totally agree with you about making custom album pages, and yours are indeed impressive! And I know I have some early Afghanistan hiding around here somewhere. When/if I find them, I'm especially looking forward to coming back to this thread to see what I can learn! Thanks very much! -- Dave
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khj
Member
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Post by khj on Jun 13, 2018 0:08:19 GMT
You are right tough, the 'ID tags' were made by excel, printed with black ink on white paper, requiring quite a lot of ink - I did not want to spend money on a printer capable of printing with white ink, those are $$$ ! Back in the days when I still used a typewriter (Smith Corona electric, and before then I used an Olivetti Underwood manual), we would make the white on black labels/cards by sticking in a correction tape/ribbon/cartridge and type on black paper. When I got into graduate school, I learned you could buy "pressure-sensitive" lettering in black or white. We would rub those onto our electron microscopy pictures for our papers or conference posters. But those things were fairly pricey. Definitely a lot more expensive and more time consuming than the white correction tape, but a lot harder to "scratch off", sharper lettering, and a wider choice of font sizes. Now everything is digital... you don't even have to develop your own negatives/pictures in a dark room anymore. It's all click'n'print or click'n'save. Very nice pages blaamand!
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,654
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jun 13, 2018 1:36:21 GMT
Please do - anyone Jon, just to follow up, I have taken a look, and I am sorry to say that I do not have any of these early Afghan issues. In fact, my paltry holdings, a grand total of three stamps, are actually all from between 1930-1940. So, unfortunately, nothing to contribute on these early issues.
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scb
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Now at 100,000+ worldwide stamps, and progressing one stamp at a time towards the 200K
Posts: 313
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Post by scb on Jun 13, 2018 8:25:08 GMT
The question is - why does Scott then not rather put emphasis on a decent description of the differences in design rather than the 'useless', awkard and 'terrifying' year inscriptions? The later is something I have tried to achieve on my pages - example given see the pages from 1875 onwards. No 'year' is needed, simply because the designs themselves is sufficient for identification. Which was also the driver for me to share with you guys in the first place. Oh this is one of my pet peeves (same with Michel, SG, Yvert etc. catalogues).... I can only salute the excellent pages/knowledge you shared. -k-
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 13, 2018 19:57:04 GMT
Thank you all for the positive feedback, it means a lot to me Now I'm done with the study and my custom pages for Afghanistan (the 1919-1940 pages were easy going) - now moving on to Albania... Jon
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bluehens
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Posts: 51
What I collect: Greece, Cayman Islands, British Africa, US, history, geography, maps and religion.
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Post by bluehens on Jun 19, 2018 15:04:42 GMT
I just started looking into stamps from the Middle East. I have been purchasing stamps from Egypt, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran. Afghanistan does appear to favor trains in many of their stamps. As a collector of religion on stamps as well as maps I found this issue right down my alley.
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 20, 2018 3:06:39 GMT
@falshung - Hmm, I am obviously VERY interested, simply forgot to respond on your offer until now. Sending you an email. Thank you very much!!
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