kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 20, 2019 12:48:22 GMT
... I cannot find Chechen Republic stamps in my 2009 Scott's international catalogues. Were these stamps actually independently valid for postage in the Chenchen Republic? ... Officially, the postage stamps of the Chechen Republic were not in circulation.In catalogs and never will be! I will add a fantastic issue.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 20, 2019 16:11:34 GMT
I disagree. It is not just a card from a bookstore. Let me explain. I live in Oakland, just across the Oakland to San Francisco Bay Bridge (completed in 1937) where I was born. Most of the larger buildings of the area were destroyed in the Earthquake and Fire of April 6, 1909. Museums and other displays only found homes in large places temporarily built for the 1915 Panama Pacific International Exposition. From time to time, friends come to visit San Francisco and I drive them around the Bay to see the sites. They marvel at what seems ordinary to me. From your pictures, the building with the book store seems to have survived for 150 years. That is miraculous to me. And, it is still a bookstore. We have nothing like, except for buildings 90 miles away (nearly 150 kilometers from here) in Sacramento, the Capitol of the State of California.
I do appreciate you identifying a grammatical error I have been applying in my translations of Russian (character by character). Just because parts of words I transcribe seem to associate, I should not make absolute assumptions that the fully transcribed words or phrases will translate with the same meaning. Best example is my erroneous partial transcription of "C.ПЕТЕРБУРГ Ъ НЕВСКИЙР.13" as "C.ПЕТЕРБУРГ Ъ НЕВСИ IИПР[-]." A translation of my partial transcription seemed to say " St. Petersburg of News," which I took to mean "St. Petersburg's News" or "St. Petersburg News." I missed the importance of the word "Ъ" as an indicator of direction/location. It is amazing how one little letter in a phrase can create an entire misunderstanding.
Your "little" display of А. Дейбнера items makes quite a collection in and of itself.
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 20, 2019 16:18:01 GMT
This building is over 200 years old.There lived Griboyedov, Musorgsky, played cards Pushkin) 1830-... Here is option still,perhaps, their existed very many. Another Deibner store.Also Nevsky prospect)
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 21, 2019 5:05:01 GMT
Kosmo. Thank you for the philatelic explanation of the difference between stamps of ЧЕЧЕНСКАЯ РЕСПУБЛИКА ИУКЕРИЯ (Chechen Republic of Ichkeria) and ЧЕЧЕНСКАЯ РЕСПУБЛИКА (Chechen Republic). I looked in my 2009 Scott catalogues and also could not find a listing for ЧЕЧЕНСКАЯ РЕСПУБЛИКА ИУКЕРИЯ (Chechen Republic of Ichkeria). Your scans show that its stamps were printed on old Soviet stamps, which suggests it took over control of the former Soviet postal operations. However, in many of the blocks, the revaluation appears only show on alternating stamps with the other alternating stamps having no overprinted postage rate. Were these "Ichkeria" stamps actually used?
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 21, 2019 8:09:59 GMT
Not use. It's not official releases and fantastic overprints!!!
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 21, 2019 9:07:37 GMT
The 1907 Russian cover cancelled ТЕМИРЪ-ХАНЪ-ШУРА / 13 / 19-07 / XI / 3 ПОЧТ.ТЕЛ.КОНТ 3 ( Temir-Khan-Shura, 13 November 1907, Post.Tel. (Post and Telegraph) Office #3 ), in the дагестан обл ( Dagestan Region ). To where was it sent? Temir-Khan-Shurá (Темир-Хан-Шура), the lake or cliff of Tamerlane. According to Wikipedia, Tamerlane is said to have camped there in 1396 after defeating Tokhtamysh during the Tokhtamysh-Timur war. It first appears in Russian annals in the 1590s when Muscovite ambassadors passed nearby on their way to Georgia. It remained a small town ruled by a Bek. In 1830, the Russians destroyed it when it sided with Kazi Mulla. In 1832, a Russian force under Klugenau camped there during Rosen's raid on Gimry. In 1834, Klugenau built a fort on the rock above the lake and it soon became the headquarters of the Apsheron Regiment and the most important Russian fort in the interior of Degestan during the Murid War. In 1849, Hadji Murad led a daring raid into the town. The place was unhealthy and Argutinsky drained the lake in 1858 to prevent the spread of disease. It was granted town status in 1866. In 1920, it was the center of the ephemeral Mountainous Republic of the Northern Caucasus. On November 13, 1920, the government of the Russian SFSR declared Dagestan's autonomy during the congress of the Dagestani people, which took place in Temir-Khan-Shura. In 1922, the town was renamed Буйнакск (Buynaksk) in honor of a revolutionary Ullubiy Buynaksky. In May 1970, Buynaksk was badly damaged by an earthquake. More recently, Wikipedia says, that in 1999, a car bomb outside an apartment building housing the families of military officers killed sixty-four people. On August 13, 2009, Buynaksk was the site of two attacks associated with the growing violence throughout Dagestan and neighboring Chechnya. About ten men first opened fire with automatic weapons on a police post, killing four officers. The gunmen then entered a nearby sauna complex and killed seven female employees. Three soldiers were killed, and thirty-two were wounded, in a suicide car-bombing at a military base in the city on September 5, 2010. The driver of a Zhiguli car smashed through a gate at the base and headed for an area where soldiers were quartered in tents. Soldiers opened fire on the car before it reached the center of the base. The driver then rammed the car into a military truck, where it exploded. After the blast, a roadside bomb hit a car taking investigators to the scene, but no injuries were reported in the second explosion. However, attackers claimed killing 56 Russian soldiers by the bombing.
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 22, 2019 13:22:49 GMT
The 1907 Russian cover cancelled ТЕМИРЪ-ХАНЪ-ШУРА / 13 / 19-07 / XI / 3 ПОЧТ.ТЕЛ.КОНТ 3 ( Temir-Khan-Shura, 13 November 1907, Post.Tel. (Post and Telegraph) Office #3 ), in the дагестан обл ( Dagestan Region ). To where was it sent? Persia, Tehran.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 24, 2019 16:06:19 GMT
Kosmo: I use translate.google too. I tried to duplicate the script but only got gibberish. I also tried Wikipedia's Russian Alphabet section at <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_alphabet> as it includes the "printed" form of Russian script. I got the Т in script form and some other script letters, but could not convert into anything understandable. I will bet you tried to show the characters in Russian script, but like you I found that type face cannot be entered into the text in postings here. In 1970, I worked for the U.S. Post Office and learned to decipher most people's handwriting on envelopes when sorting mail. When I returned to school in 1971, that was most useful in my cover collecting. Your help translating as a native reader and writer of Russian makes it all clear. Now to work on the Arabic, which I think I should assume is written in Ottoman Turkish Arabic script. That alphabet was replaced in 1928 in Turkey by the Latin-based modern Turkish alphabet.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 24, 2019 16:29:47 GMT
Kosmo: You have explained that the stamps of the Chechen Republic and the Chechen Republic Ichkeria are not officially recognized. We both have a cover with Russian Republic stamps for postage that include a "label" that says Chechen Republic. Were the "labels" of the Chechen Republic Ickeria similarly applied to covers bearing Russian Republic stamps?
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on May 24, 2019 16:33:43 GMT
I have been building a collection around the ways War has impacted on mail deliveries and have recently got a few Prisoner of War Cards from Russian POW camps in WW1. The prisoners here are Austro- Hungarian . Two cards are addressed to Vienna and one to Budapest ( in Hungarian ) From a camp in TASHKENT with various censor marks This from IRBIT Perm However this one has me beaten! there is no datestamp and it is in Hungarian
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 24, 2019 16:41:57 GMT
Kosmo: You have explained that the stamps of the Chechen Republic and the Chechen Republic Ichkeria are not officially recognized. We both have a cover with Russian Republic stamps for postage that include a "label" that says Chechen Republic. Were the "labels" of the Chechen Republic Ickeria similarly applied to covers bearing Russian Republic stamps? About the label not quite understand.What is meant? If You mean the brand of Chechnya,then officially they can not be anywhere and in any way!
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 24, 2019 16:44:45 GMT
However this one has me beaten! there is no datestamp and it is in Hungarian Interesting card! It's hard to say anything yet.Here is the same censorship and also without postage stamps.
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on May 24, 2019 16:52:34 GMT
Hi Kosmo , I was wrong earlier , it is in fact written in German, not Hungarian dated VIII 1917 (near the end for Russia) but no postmark so I still cannot locate the camp
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 24, 2019 16:57:25 GMT
Above I showed the card,maybe it will help?
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on May 24, 2019 17:04:05 GMT
Certainly the two are very similar . I wish my Prisoner wrote as neatly as yours ! I can read your card lovely writing . My one is horrible.
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 24, 2019 17:07:06 GMT
Certainly the two are very similar . I wish my Prisoner wrote as neatly as yours ! I can read your card lovely writing . My one is horrible. This is not my card,I saved this scan for my search. Prisoners of war were kept in the far East in seven camps: near Khabarovsk, Nikolo-Aleksandrovsky, Spassky, Nikolsk-Ussuriysky, Razdolny, Shkotovo, Blagoveshchensk. By 1917, there were about 45 thousand men and 4 thousand officers. They were mostly Hungarians, Austrians and Germans. Nikolsk-Ussuriisk on both cards.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 24, 2019 18:03:59 GMT
Kosmo: By "label" I meant something affixed to a cover that is not an official postage stamp. For example, I intended "label" to mean something like what is called a Christmas Seal, an exhibition sticker, airmail label, or a Registration Number Label. Just wondering if the other Chenchen group had any of its labels applied to a cover that was mailed with Russian Republic stamps?
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 24, 2019 18:18:41 GMT
Kosmo: By "label" I meant something affixed to a cover that is not an official postage stamp. For example, I intended "label" to mean something like what is called a Christmas Seal, an exhibition sticker, airmail label, or a Registration Number Label. Just wondering if the other Chenchen group had any of its labels applied to a cover that was mailed with Russian Republic stamps? I don't have an answer at the moment.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 24, 2019 18:24:56 GMT
Kosmo: Prisoner of War Censored covers. I do not see a date on your cover, so you may have to go with the range of dates in which such types were used. A few of these are shown as part of an extensive exhibition of 1904-1917 Russian military censor covers at <http://www.japhila.cz/hof/0428/synopsis.htm>. If you only get a text document without pictures, go to its bottom and click one of the "Frame" numbered links.
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on May 24, 2019 20:12:20 GMT
Fantastic Kosmo! Just what I need . I can now read it thanks again. A++++++++
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 24, 2019 20:40:07 GMT
According to one of the exhibit pages from www.japhila.cz/hof/0428/synopsis.htm mentioned above, Austrian censors were used for Russian prisoner of war mail because they had a better understanding of the German language than the Russians.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 27, 2019 17:02:51 GMT
About the Cooperative Union stamp shown in one of the May 19, 2019 posts in this thread above - - the one inscribed ЦЕНТРОСОЮЗ СССР и РСфСР КООПеРаМИВНаЯ ПаеВаЯ МаРКа РУБЛЬ 1 РУБЛЬ (Central Union USSR and RSFSR Cooperating Union Stamp Ruble 1 Ruble), I put the key part, КООПеРаМИВНаЯ ПаеВаЯ МаРКа (Cooperative Union Stamp) into bing search which referred me to the Russian language Wikipedia site, <https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Кооперативная_марка> . According to my use of translate.google, the Russian article talks about Cooperative trademarks stamps as "a type of credit brands issued by mass collective associations operating in the field of production and exchange - consumer, household supply, credit and production cooperatives, societies and artels. According to their economic content, cooperative brands are classified as voluntary fees. In the USSR in 1923-1925 and 1930-1931, they were used as surrogates for money circulation." The exact stamp shown here is pictured there, but I think Wikipedia has a typographical error in its picture caption as is indicates the stamp is from 1954, and not 1924, the time frame of the Wikipedia article. The website provides a reference about these types of stamps: Каталог-справочник непочтовых марок. — М., 2001. — С. 146—157. — (Приложение к журн. «Филателия»: Сб. из 3 т.; Т. 3.) or Catalog-directory of non-postal stamps. - M., 2001. - P. 146-157. - (Appendix to the journal. "Philately": Sat. 3 tons; T. 3.). If anyone has a copy, let me know. Then bing led me tp <https://auction.ru/offer/centrosojuz_kooperativno_paevaja_marka_1_rub_15_sht_opt-i20688807908917.html> and auction lot "Центросоюз Кооперативно паевая марка 1 руб.15 шт.Опт." 15 of these stamps for 1500 rubles.
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on May 27, 2019 17:14:27 GMT
The price in 1,500 rubles very high.You can find full series and different periods.If you need help, write in private messages. There were different issues on different paper, with different zubtsovkoy and foil, with VZ and without.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 28, 2019 16:59:42 GMT
Kosmo: Thank you for the advice on buying in Russian auctions and the availability of stamps there. I will use personal messages to discuss how you can help me further.
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on Jun 27, 2019 6:47:12 GMT
Here are 4 postcards from 1925-1927 labeled ЗАКАЗНОЕ Уведомление о получении (Customs Notification of Receipt) with ф No. 371 (Form No. 371) on the bottom right of the back. Apparently, the identification of the recipient of a package, its contents and value were filled into a pre-printed Customs Notification of Receipt postcard when a foreign package arrived in Moscow. The card was then stamped and canceled and sent along with the package to the city of the addressee. There it was processed and canceled, then sent to the Bank of Foreign Trade of the USSR БАНКУ ДЛЯ ВНЕШНЕЙ ТОРГОВЛИ СССР, Foreign Department Иностранный Отдел, in Moscow, the address pre-printed on Form No. 371. The back of the form provides for writing in the name and address of the recipient, the contents of the package and its value in U.S. Dollars Ам. Долл and in equivalent Rubles оцененное б Руб. That part appears to have been filled in initially on receipt in Moscow. The back of the form also provides for the recipient to identify themselves and acknowledge receipt, with a space for the postal official to sign in confirmation. These four cards represent three variations of Form No. 371. The 1925 card has space on the back for the official signature Подпись чиновника with text at the bottom of the back indicating that official, while on the back of the others is a space for the signature of a Post & Telegraph employee Подпись п.-т. работника with minor differences in the text at the bottom of the back indicating the postal worker. The first three cards are labeled on the bottom right of the back as ф No. 371 (Form No. 371), while the 1927 is labeled ф No. 371-60000 (Form No. 371, 60000 printed). The 1925 card does not have the word Customs ЗАКАЗНОЕ on the front crossed out, while the other three do. It is interesting to note this 1925 card does not indicate what, if any customs or handling fees were charged, but the value of the package is the greatest of the four at U.S. $125. cancels: (1) Moscow 23 Nov. 1925, ' МОСКВА / 23 11 25 / 3 ЭКСП. (3rd Exp.)' , (2) Minsk (Belarus) Gov.3., 25 Nov. 1925 ' МИНСК ГУБ.3. / 25 11 25 ' , (3) Moscow 26 Nov. 1925, ' МОСКВА / No. 26 XI 25 12 / V. ЭКСП. (5th Exp.)', From here, the cards get more interesting as each of the remaining three cards has a 6 Kopek General Revenue ГЕРБОВАЯ МАРКА stamp applied , the same stamp on the 1926 cards and a different design on the 1927 card. Since no tariff (customs or duty fee) was indicated on the 1925 card, it is unclear if the 6 Kopek stamp on the latter three was a package handling fee in addition to any tariff that went into effect after the 1925 card was sent or if the 6 kopek is the actual tariff and not just a package handling fee. cancels: (1) Moscow 24 March 1926, МОСКВА 24 3 26 30 ГОР. ПОЧТ. ОТД , (2) Bila Tserkva (Ukraine) 27 March 1926, БЕЛАЯ ЦЕРКОВЬ (in Russian) 27 3 26 БіЛА ЦЕРКВА (in Ukrainian), [largest City in Kiev Oblast] , (3) Moscow 29 March 1926, МОСКВА No. 29 III 26 - - 48 V. ЭКСП. (5th Exp.) cancels: (1) Moscow 24 March 1926, МОСКВА 24 3 26 30 ГОР. ПОЧТ. ОТД , (2) Vitebsk (Belarus) 27 March 1926, ВИТЕБСК 27 3. 26 K , (3) Moscow 29 March 1926, МОСКВА No. 29 III 26 - - 11 V. ЭКСП. (5th Exp.) cancels: (1) Moscow 4 February 1927, МОСКВА -4 2 27 30 ГОР. ПОЧТ. ОТД , (2) Murov(ani)-Kurylivtsi (Ukraine) 7 February 1927, МУРОВ- КУРИЛОВЦ[-] -7 2 27 а
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on Jun 27, 2019 9:17:45 GMT
Here is a postcard canceled Warsaw (Poland) 14 March, 1890 1st Ekspeditsya, ВАРШАВА / 14 / МАР / 1890 / 1 ЭКСПЕДИЦЯ with a Leipzig, Germany, receiving cancel of 27 March (1890) 10-11 a.m., I / 27 3 / 10-11 V. / L. On the back of the card is the sender's purple double circle hand-stamp reading: Sklad Nut i Instrumentow Muzycznych / E SZCZĘSNEGO / Warszawio / Marszałkowska 136 (Store of Notes and Musical Instruments, E. Szczęsnego, Warsaw, 136 Marshal). The postcard is Zagorsky #ПК 8 (June 1889, Sixth Issue), 3 к. carmine pre-printed stamp postcard, inscribed ОТКРЫТОЕ ПИСЬМО (Open Letter, i.e. Postcard), with an additional 2 к. green stamp affixed for a total 5 к postage. I am fortunate the sender did not have a 1 к. Stamp to make up the international postcard rate of 4 к. in effect from 1889-1909, and overpaid with a 2 к. Stamp. This 2 к. Stamp appears to be a variety of Zagorsky # 45 (the March 1888 Tenth Issue). Zagorsky says the next 2 к. stamp (Zagorsky # 58, the Eleventh Issue) was issued in December 1890, nine months after the card was canceled. Take a look at the scan of the 2 к. stamp. Tell me what you think. This scan of the stamp is quite fuzzy. I originally posted it to see if a close up scan of a stamp would be clear if I merely enlarged the stamp to a 5 inch height from the original cover scan made at 300 dpi. The following stamp image is clearer and made by scanning the stamp portion of the cover at 1200 dpi, cropping that scan to the stamp image only and proportionally enlarging it to a 5 inch height. Placing a 1200 dpi scan of the entire cover would be far too large (too many megabites) and a waste of Forum storage resources. But scanning only a small portion of cover that contained the stamp at 1200 dpi and cropping the resulting image produced the .jpg image of less than 700 kb shown below.
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on Jun 29, 2019 8:07:59 GMT
The postcard is Zagorsky #ПК 8 (June 1889, Sixth Issue), 3 к. carmine pre-printed stamp postcard, inscribed ОТКРЫТОЕ ПИСЬМО (Open Letter, i.e. Postcard), with an additional 2 к. green stamp affixed for a total 5 к postage. I am fortunate the sender did not have a 1 к. Stamp to make up the international postcard rate of 4 к. in effect from 1889-1909, and overpaid with a 2 к. Stamp. This 2 к. Stamp appears to be a variety of Zagorsky # 45 (the March 1888 Tenth Issue). Zagorsky says the next 2 к. stamp (Zagorsky # 58, the Eleventh Issue) was issued in December 1890, nine months after the card was canceled. Take a look at the scan of the 2 к. stamp. Tell me what you think. This is the twelfth issue.№ 58 in the Zagorski catalogue.Post horns with arrows
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on Jun 29, 2019 8:44:23 GMT
Kosmo, then the 2 k. green Twelfth Issue Zagorsky #58 was issued earlier than December 1890?
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kosmo
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Post by kosmo on Jun 29, 2019 8:55:19 GMT
Kosmo, then the 2 k. green Twelfth Issue Zagorsky #58 was issued earlier than December 1890? This release has three variants of 2 коп..Green-December 1890, the rest earlier.The main difference is the arrows!!!There were issues 58, 58A, 58B The tenth edition has no arrows on the post horns.
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Post by abctoo on Jun 29, 2019 9:25:29 GMT
Kosmo , I am just beginning to understand Russian stamps and really do appreciate you for explaining the differences. Not only do you know your stamps, but you were able to recognize my lack of understanding that caused me to misattributed this item. Thank you for your patience, even over a common stamp. I will try to do better next time.
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