anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Jun 12, 2020 14:54:10 GMT
Miniature sheet issued on June 5 2007 to commemorate 40th anniversary of Machin definitives.
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Post by michael on Jun 12, 2020 18:03:03 GMT
I'm really glad you are enjoying your Machins.
I had Machin fever from 1980 until 1999, especially booklets. I had to buy 3 booklets, one for the new stamp within it (left band phospher for instance), one for the 'pane' and one for the actual booklet. It became an obsession and I couldn't walk past a Post Office without using the outside booklet dispenser to see if I could get an "error". In December 1999 I'd had enough and stopped my Royal Mail new issue service and life returned to normal . I simplified my collection over the next few years, and updated my Lighthouse Machin album with my own printed pages to add the se-tenant panes from all the booklets. This left an awful lot of duplicate Machins, booklet panes and booklets. Over the last 20 years I've been gradually using them up as normal postage though my Christmas cards now have to be bigger to accommodate the number of low value Machins I need for a 2nd class stamp! Please don't let me put you off collecting Machins, but I'd be quite happy if I never saw one again .
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Post by michael on Jun 14, 2020 8:20:07 GMT
Have just been doing a booklet stock check.Two booklet albums and these.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jun 14, 2020 10:14:29 GMT
That is a lot of booklets!
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Jun 22, 2020 17:03:53 GMT
Pane from 2009 Design Classics prestige book containing litho copies of 16p and 50o ,only found in this book.
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Jun 24, 2020 13:22:00 GMT
A pane from Merchant Navy prestige booklet,issued in 2013.The 5p and 50p have inverted elliptical perforations and are only found in this book.
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Jun 25, 2020 12:29:40 GMT
Two more panes from prestige books, First one is from Harry Potter book,issued in 2018.Second one from Marvel book,issued in 2019. The Marvel pane contains litho 1.45ukl dove grey stamp,only found in this book. Both books have the litho 1.25uk holly green,again only found in these two books. To my old eyes,the stamp in the Potter book appears darker .
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jun 25, 2020 12:34:11 GMT
In all the booklets, did the stamps actually meet some postal rate? For example, why a 1p, 5p, etc? For example today, a 1st class is 76p and 2nd class is 65p. The 1p is not likely a make up rate for many years.
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Jun 25, 2020 12:57:44 GMT
angoreLike you,I am puzzled whhy there is a need for these low values.Perhaps they are useful when there is a rate increase by 1p r 2p ?
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darkormex
Member
Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
Posts: 2,145
What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Dec 18, 2020 2:10:07 GMT
angore , I am just realizing how much you have contributed in this Machin area! As I have been looking for Machins for you on the giveaway thread I have also been consolidating my collection into one stock book. I have Machins in disparate areas that need to be soaked off paper and I am also trying to catalogue and place what I have on stock pages by Scott catalogue number. As I have been doing this I am remembering areas where I became bogged down, especially in identifying particular Machins in the Scott Catalogue and one of those areas is the Die Cut Perf. 1st and 2nd denomination stamps, MH292 to MH301. Below are scans I have made of the 2nd denom stamps, presumably Sc. nos. MH292 to MH294. My difficulty is determining what is what. My biggest headache is determining the type of die cut perfs which seem to be one way of identifying the correct Scott number but also there is the size of the numeral 2 and the shape of the perfs. Below are several scans. The first has all 3 of the stamp types that I have with different die cut perfs and then individual corner scans showing the 3 stamps in more detail. My focus is on the perfs not the printing so the scans are grainy but it does help to see the shape of the die cuts. All of these stamps are either die-cut 15x14 1/4 or 14 3/4x14. The 1/4 perf. difference is extremely hard to differentiate in my opinion and, so, I have trying to figure it out by perf. shape. For me, the easiest to identify is the stamp on the far left, but I am still not certain what Sc. no. it is. It has long, square-tipped die-cut perfs and also has a "fat" 2 as well as the ND. So, I am thinking this is Sc. no. MH294. The second, middle stamp has shorter, square-tipped die-cut perfs, skinnier 2 and ND and then this is where my certainty breaks down. Because, this next stamp, while it has slightly different die-cut perfs, at least when I look at it, the perfs below and the perfs above seem to be so similar that sometimes when I am looking at a pile of them in my magnifier I can make a firm decision as to which one is which.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 18, 2020 11:07:07 GMT
I do not use Scott so will need to compare Scott and SG. There were 3 printers for these issues and issued in sheets, coils, and booklets. Some of the die cuts varied by the shape of the tips (rounded vs square) and how die cut at corners, From my quick look, the 2nd and 3rd are thin numeral varieties. The perfs are rounded in the corners but they are different compared to each other to stamp.
If you butt the perfs of two together you can get a visual on a difference, I did a check with SG and they use perforation differences but the perf shape too did change between printings.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 18, 2020 12:32:08 GMT
I will add you can see the die cut corners are very different. Stamp 1 has a false perf in the corner and the stamp 2 and 3 have a blunt type cut. My 2 samples are still on backing paper.
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darkormex
Member
Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
Posts: 2,145
What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Dec 18, 2020 14:35:05 GMT
My difficulty is determining the Scott no. for each stamp. I am confidant the 1st stamp in the row is MH294 but if the other two are MH292 and MH293, which one is which?
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 19, 2020 11:51:57 GMT
I did some perf comparisons (perfs are used for die cuts) Scott MH292 - thin chars, flat tips. 14 3/4 x 15 Scott MH293 - thin chars, flat tips, 15 x 14 1/4- Scott MH294 - thick chars, rounded tips. 14 3/4 x 15 Image 1: The left stamp appears to have a slightly smaller center to center horizontal perf distance than center Image 2: The left stamp appears to have a slightly smaller center to center horizontal distance than third. Image 3; The center and right appear to have same perf measurement but the perfs seem different. To me, the right stamp is MH294 due to rounded perfs. Image 1: Center stamp top, left stamp bottome Item 2: right stamp top, left stamp bottom Image 3: right stamp top. center stamp bottom I looked at Scott dates of issue and compared to Deegam. MH 292 4/6/98 - This can only be Enschede printer (coil rolls). Enschede has rounded tips and straight corners. Scott says flat tips so who knows. MH292a 1/29/00 - These were from Walsall and Questa MH294 7/4/02 - Enschede and Qwesta
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 19, 2020 12:35:32 GMT
I checked my two samples Left stamp: perf 14 3/4 x14 , rounded tips, thin 2 stem, 4.5mm phosphor band. The rounded corners and 4.5nm phosphor bands means Enschede Walsall has sharp corners per Deegam, right stamp perf 15x14 1/4, square corners, thicker 2, 5mm phosphor band, The 5mm phosphor bands was only printed by Questa, this issue was in production many years. Scott listing does not seem consistent.
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darkormex
Member
Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
Posts: 2,145
What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Dec 19, 2020 14:00:15 GMT
I agree. The Scott listing definitely needs updating to something more clear for this issue. Thank you for all the work you are doing on this. I am going to have to dig out my Deegam cd and transfer the contents to my external hard drive so I can start using it again. angore, are you using the Adminware pages? I was looking at the site last night and am considering purchasing the novice level as that is probably about as deep as I would want to go.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 19, 2020 21:14:02 GMT
I am now trying to find a Walsall image too (always the concern there are changes by printer) to see if I can find one that meets Scott's critteria. The two samples I have came from Scott Machin pages and they do not match the combination that Scott defines (perf / thin/thicker combo).
Can you post the the perf measurements for each one>
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 20, 2020 13:55:29 GMT
Here is my analysis of trying to map to printer. Note SG Concise really only has 1 number for all. The thick value has to be Questa per multiple sources and phosphor hand width double confirms. Scott calls it MH294 but states perfs are 14¾x14 but my sample is no. I have confidence in my measurements since the other sample is different. I would like to know your perf measurements, I have measured across the ellipse and just the normal pets, Walsall supposed have a slight flat at perf tip and Enschede is more continuous (serpentine),
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darkormex
Member
Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
Posts: 2,145
What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Dec 23, 2020 14:01:12 GMT
angore , thank you for your help on this. When I eventually have time to get back to stamps, this will help me sort those 2nd Blue Machins. I found it very difficult to measure perf width accurately. Perhaps because of my perf gauge but there is so little difference between 15 and 14 3/4 that it is very hard to tell.
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Jan 21, 2021 12:09:12 GMT
I have been busy lately organizing my Machin blocks which I have accumulated over the last few years.I have a stock book full of assorted sizes,blocks of 4,6,8 and 10.I also like postmarks so have found many nice cancellations.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jan 21, 2021 12:39:22 GMT
Is there some correlation between the blocks on the page?
Yesterday, I did spend time researching the details behind the Machin 2p light green and dark green issues. SG Concise does not list the value type varieties so curious why Scott listed them although some seem to dismiss Scott pout right.
There was a "2" shape change that I think SG could have listed. Royal Mail changed font and then color palette (green would be dark green) some printings were much lighter creating a light dark green that Scott lists as dark green.
I correlated the value shapes between Scott and Deegam, Deegam T1 = Scott (a) Deegam T2/T3 -= Scott (b) Deeham T4/T5 - Scott (c)
Gravure issues MH25 light green type a 12/12/79 - DG20.6, DG 20.9 MH26 light green type b 2/15/71 - DG 20.7 - not in SG Concise MH27 dark green type c 9/5/88 DG20.13 and later issues MH28 light green type c 7/6/88 DG20.13 - printing color varied per Deegam so Scott listed lighter shade - not in SG Concise.
From looking at some GB machin dealer sites, these are not "popular" varieties.
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Post by stamphinger on Jan 21, 2021 13:01:19 GMT
Yes, at least for me. The symmetry of the layout is pleasing.
Don StampHinger
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,828
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 21, 2021 15:28:58 GMT
Thanks for sharing Bob (@ anglobob ) :-) Better than a packet of M&Ms, that colourful page of Machins with their syncopated perforations brings a smile to my face.
Well done and what a treat...
Happy collecting!
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Jan 21, 2021 15:45:52 GMT
There is no correlation.I suppose I could have arranged them by value but I have so many and that would be very time consuming.I just wanted to display them as best as I could and come up with an attractive display.
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Post by dgdecker on Jan 21, 2021 20:27:04 GMT
There is no correlation.I suppose I could have arranged them by value but I have so many and that would be very time consuming.I just wanted to display them as best as I could and come up with an attractive display. An eye catching display. Love the post marks. David
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Jan 24, 2021 13:49:36 GMT
Still arranging Machins...... Stamps in the red colour group.Different catalogues have different colour names.14p and 25p are classed as rose red in Gibbons and salmon pink in Deegram. 7p and 39p as bright magenta in Gibbons and shocking pink in Deegram.To me,there is a big difference in the colour of these 2 stamps. 38p,41p and 72p are rosine in Gibbons and red in Deegram 1UKL is magenta in Gibbons and ruby in Deegram.
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brightonpete
Departed
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Jan 24, 2021 14:48:07 GMT
And Stoneham (after much searching) calls the 38p colour "rosine" Is that a mix of rose and carmine? Sheesh! I really need to get that SG catalogue if I am going to dive deeper into the stamps!
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,828
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 25, 2021 8:48:37 GMT
Good stuff Bob ( anglobob) and thanks for sharing; the larger Machin blocks look great :-) Curious though, as I have not had any success with soaking Machins off of the envelope, what is your method? For now, any Machins I save from the post will simply be cut & trimmed... Happy collecting!
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jan 25, 2021 11:32:47 GMT
I read that SG decides the color name after they see them while Deegam and others use what the Royal Post Office calls it. SG sometimes assign shades as catalog numbers but in Deegam shades may be noted in a level 2/3 section but not often as a level 1.. There have been differences between gravure and litho for the same official color.
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Ryan
Member
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,721
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Jan 25, 2021 13:52:33 GMT
Good stuff Bob ( anglobob ) and thanks for sharing; the larger Machin blocks look great :-) Curious though, as I have not had any success with soaking Machins off of the envelope, what is your method? The blocks shown are all older issues using water-activated gum, so they soak with no problems. The original generation of self-adhesive Machins also soak off in water without a problem, but the later ones with the security cuts (those oval-shaped slits cut into the design portion of the stamp) won't soak off in water. Ryan
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