Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,657
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Mar 25, 2024 3:03:48 GMT
France, Napoleon III Issues, 1852-1870 Arranged on Hagner Stock SheetI realize that I have been remiss in not posting in these classic France threads for quite some time now, as I do have a few relevant examples. I have nowhere near the depth of material or expertise of other members, but here are my main Napoleon III issues. I am still missing a reasonable number of these, but I try to fill the gaps when I can find stamps at good prices. Row 1: France, Sc10-11, inscribed REPUB FRANC Row 2: France, Sc12-15, inscribed EMPIRE FRANC (color-shade variety IDs not attempted) Row 3: France, Sc18-19, inscribed EMPIRE FRANC Row 4: France, Sc22-23, 25-28, inscribed EMPIRE FRANC (perforated) Row 5: France, Sc30, 33-36, inscribed EMPIRE FRANÇAIS (perforated) Row 6: France, Sc37, "5F" filled with Light Blue
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Post by wvgm3 on Mar 28, 2024 21:25:21 GMT
It was interesting to see that the Zumstein catalog uses the neck shading (Die Shattierung der Nackenpartie) as the primary means of differentiating Type I and Type II, while this is not mentioned in either Yvert or Spink/Maury which focus on the details of the hair. There is an entire page in Yvert (2021, page 89) that describes the Empire Emission with several paragraphs on the differences between the two types. I guess I should translate the entire page...
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Post by wvgm3 on Mar 29, 2024 1:14:19 GMT
Here are various shades of the 1c Napoleon (Yv11). I think positions 1-6 are vert olive, with position 4 perhaps being vert olive fonce (Yv11c), and position 5 perhaps being vert olive clair (Yv11a). Positions 7-10 are vert bronze (Yv11b). The block of 4 is I believe Yv11d, the mordore shade. I think I have a certificate for the block somewhere.
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Post by wvgm3 on Mar 30, 2024 20:56:58 GMT
Here are various shades and cancellations of the 5c Napoleon from my collection. For the first image, I interpret position 1 as vert, position 2 as vert-jaune, and position 3 as vert fonce (maybe). Position 6, 7, and 8 are the same for used versions. The pair appears to be vert fonce. Any other opinions on the shades are welcome.
For the second image, position 1 is a grill, position 2, 3, and 4 are red, blue, and black stars, position 5 and 10 are red and black cachet a date (cad), not sure about position 6 (perhaps smeared pointilles), position 7 is losange gros chiffres, position 8 and 9 are losange de Paris, lettres batons (Yv 2021, page 261). From the first image, position 6, 8, 9, 10 are all losange petits chiffres, while position 7 appears to have an ES1 which looks to me to be a losange de Paris, lettre romain due to the style of the letter typography, but Yvert only lists the ES1 as a lettre baton, so who knows. The red and blue stars are much less common than the other cancellations and have a catalog value about 3 times higher.
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,716
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Mar 30, 2024 21:14:25 GMT
Sorted the sideways issue so ignore above should see upright. Personally, I used Maury to do my France classics and even compared to what Scott Specialized did - The french cats do better for varieties etc - My Sacramento friend uses all catalogs available and compares and I am sure there are still but I consider he is an "expert" now and we shared some other references. These stamps are not for the beginner I encourage you to keep trucking....it helps our community René
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,643
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 30, 2024 21:40:48 GMT
Very nice! Jean Pothion's 1972 work France Obliterations 1849 - 1876 is something you might find quite useful. I don't remember it being expensive. It offers far more information than Y & T.
Maury lists 5 color variants for the 1 c, and 4! for the 5 c!
There are a number of listings witht he "novelty" symbol, but I have yet to find what exactluy is meant by that. In many cases the CV is in yhe same range as others
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Post by wvgm3 on Mar 30, 2024 23:17:50 GMT
I made the mistake of looking through the Library thread of TSF this morning and now have a full page list of French Stamp reference works to acquire...
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,716
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Mar 30, 2024 23:22:00 GMT
I made the mistake of looking through the Library thread of TSF this morning and now have a full page list of French Stamp reference works to acquire... It seems to me.....when you start looking at multiple references..........you never stop and question yourself ++++ but it is all part of the FUN !! René
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Post by wvgm3 on Mar 31, 2024 3:21:23 GMT
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,607
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Mar 31, 2024 10:13:38 GMT
A lovely assemblage of Napoleons👍
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,643
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 31, 2024 14:54:58 GMT
Very nice indeed. Especially the blocks. Looking at the traits for Type I and Type II, (hair lines ) I find a small note in Maury that it is the same as the 20 c we were discussing earlier. The Les Moutiers (-en-Rertz) cancellation is very nice! An interesting coat of arms Probably a nice place to live!
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rod222
Member
Posts: 9,913
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Mar 31, 2024 19:24:09 GMT
Very nice indeed. Especially the blocks. Looking at the traits for Type I and Type II, (hair lines ) I find a small note in Maury that it is the same as the 20 c we were discussing earlier. The Les Moutiers (-en-Rertz) cancellation is very nice! An interesting coat of armsProbably a nice place to live! For those not familiar, the question mark symbols, are Bishop's Croziers. Represents a Shepherd's Crook. A sign of office "I am the good Shepherd" etc for Christians.
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,657
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Apr 1, 2024 5:31:29 GMT
Just posting to give this thread a bump, as I found a pre-existing thread on the same subject, so I have merged them into one. Stay Napoleon III stampy, all!
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Post by wvgm3 on Apr 15, 2024 1:20:28 GMT
I decided to post this part of an old (mid 1950s?) Thiaude Album (from France) not for the stamps, but for the ID info for Type I and II. The heads of Napoleon III on either side of the page, show differences in the neck shading (and similar to the Zumstein catalog mentioned previously in this thread) as the primary differentiator for the two types. As I had also noted earlier in the thread, this ID seems to me much easier to determine than the hair strands mentioned in Y&T and Spink/Maury. Henri Thiaude is (maybe was?) a well-known french stamp expert who published catalogs (and albums) in at least the period of 1940s-1960s.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,643
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 15, 2024 14:00:43 GMT
In my communications with Bernard Brinette, he kindly sent me the following Type I left, Type II right
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Post by wvgm3 on Apr 15, 2024 17:33:29 GMT
Here are Yv14, 20c Napoleon III, from my collection. First image, various shades, with all Type I except the last one (position 9). Second image various blocks, with the third block being Type II.
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,716
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Apr 15, 2024 17:36:30 GMT
Stan stainlessb - I am very happy for you - checking my "émission empire non dentelée" (Type Cérès-empire franc) I am also glad to have in album a Maury T I as well as a Type II. Vive la France !! René p.s. wvgm3 was showing his beauties while I was posting......
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Post by wvgm3 on Apr 16, 2024 19:22:48 GMT
Yv15, 25c Napoleon III, with a few shades and cancels. Position 1 is likely Yc25c, the reimpression of 1862. I will need to get this expertized.
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Post by wvgm3 on Apr 16, 2024 19:30:14 GMT
Yv16, 40c Napoleon III in orange. First image is a few shades and various interesting cancels (star, anchor, large dots, etc.). Position 3 is an interesting double impression.
Second image showing the range of shades. Y&T lists 4 shades, Spink/Maury 5.
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