vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,290
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Nov 22, 2021 20:14:01 GMT
Maybe the Aberdeen postal clerk was wrong.? It certainly seems to have been accepted .
I have seen several different dates quoted from a variety of sources, 1901 seems just a bit early as she was only recently deceased. Some sources suggest 1915 , others state 1924.
1930 is given for Edward Vii
However all of these dates seem to be ignored ……there was a fashion for 4 kings covers in 1937 with bothEdwards and both Georges ( sometimes +. Q Vic ) Theoretically the Ed Vii and Q Vic were not valid , but got cancelled if the combined total of Ed Viii and the two Georges was enough to pay the postage.
However by 1946 ( my cover above) the rate was 2 1/2d. So the Victoria was accepted.
Bizarrely the Victorian copper coins remained valid in circulation right up to Decimalisation in 1971. So maybe the postal clerks could be forgiven for cancelling out of date stamps.
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salentin
Member
collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,664
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Post by salentin on Nov 23, 2021 18:44:07 GMT
It sounds a little bit strange,but 1901 and 1915 are correct.There are 13 (Michel nos.) QV stamps what remained
valid till June 30th,1915.It maybe that S.G.lists a bigger number of stamps,as they often give varieties own numbers.
All others became invalid on May 31st,1901. All E VII stamps became invalid on March 31st,1939. All later non-decimal stamps,except of the E II pound-values,became invalid on Feb.29th,1972.
Well I guess the Aberdeen-clerks simply did not care or the letter just slipped through. Nowadays it seems that postal clerks in Britain (and not in Britain alone) have solved the problem: they do not cancel stamps at all or use a marker-obliteration or similar collector-friendly cancellations.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,290
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Nov 23, 2021 22:15:08 GMT
Nowadays it seems that postal clerks in Britain (and not in Britain alone) have solved the problem: they do not cancel stamps at all or use a marker-obliteration or similar collector-friendly cancellations.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🙂🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Post by david on Jan 1, 2022 12:33:32 GMT
Hello these are some covers i found. Can someone help me to tell me if they are genuine or fabricated. This sounds perhaps strange but i once was told in a store that sometimes they fabricate enveloppes with stamps. One of them states it is a FDC but i am not sure. The other two are made for a congress of some sort but i am not sure what.
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Post by david on Jan 1, 2022 12:44:26 GMT
Hello these are enveloppes i found to celebrate the 1996 international stamps exhibition at Wembley on 25th of april 1996. my question is if they are genuine regarding the stamp or is it something fabricated especially for this occasion. I don't care if they are fabricated as i like the stamps but it would be nice to know as general knowledge.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,290
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jan 1, 2022 13:47:29 GMT
Well david the postmarks are definitely “fabricated “ for the interest of post mark collectors. They come in two categories, official postmarks for the first day of issue as produced by Royal Mail . The third cancel in your first group is the kind used by those main post offices which had philatelic counters in the 1960s. A collector could get his cover date stamped FIRST DAY OF ISSUE at a local post office. Sometime later Royal Mail produced illustrated official cancels only obtained from a central philatelic Headquarters such as Tallent House in Edinburgh. They still produce these for FDC. The second type of cancel which you have on covers 1,2, 5 and6 are described as SPONSORED POSTMARKS. Anyone or an organisation can design a postmark , submit it to Royal Mail for approval and manufacture to be used to commemorate an event, a Congress, a stamp show, or anniversary of a famous person. There is a fee for this and the cancel is usually only used for a day at the event. So yes fabricated, but also official and of interest to postmark collectors.
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Post by david on Jan 1, 2022 15:46:39 GMT
Hello Viking
Thank you so much for the explanation. I knew there was something with the so called "fabricated". It is different then the explanation I received as they told me it was made by another collector. It is a big difference when it is produced by the official postal services.
And ofcourse they are a nice value for some collectors. I hope the post was interesting for you.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,290
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jan 1, 2022 16:23:46 GMT
Hi david only the third cover can be described as a FDC ( First Day Cover) privately obtained The others are described as Having "Illustrated postmarks" . As far as I can see none of the stamps is really related or connected to the stamp that have been used. Th post mark on the first letter is interesting as it commemorates WILLIAM WYON R.A. ( Royal Academy .....of artists) whose portrait of Young Queen Victoria was used for the PENNY BLACK and later stamps of GB.
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Post by david on Jan 1, 2022 20:14:34 GMT
Hello viking
Thank you for the extra information about the artist. About the artists behind the stamps is something totally new to me. I knew there are several artists who were used to create the image on machins.
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Post by daniel on Feb 17, 2022 0:38:53 GMT
Here is a Royal Mail First Day Cover, dated 1st February 2022, for the new 2D Barcode Machins.
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banknoteguy
Member
Posts: 291
What I collect: 19th Century US, High denomination US (> $1), 19th century covers US, Indian Feudatory States and most recently I acquired a BigBlue [with about 5,000 stamps] and pristine pages.
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Post by banknoteguy on Feb 18, 2022 12:52:02 GMT
Here is a letter from GB to USA from 1958 with fancy cancels. Looks like 25 Apr (very indistinct) to 9 May (clear) which is about the same as current transit times. Not really surprising for registered, I would think as they are supposed to pass hand to hand.
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,633
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Feb 19, 2022 1:13:07 GMT
I bought this 1866 cover from London, Great Britain to Bridgewater, Nova Scotia back in 1995 at a Toronto auction before eBay was a thing. It was about the time when I started looking for covers and postmarks from my home county and near by. I soon became more targeted in my collecting only buying Queens County related. I have contemplated selling it so I thought I would see what I might expect in today's market on eBay. In general covers with this Scott 45 six-pence plate 5 sell for less than I paid for it. As always there are sellers asking a lot more though but asking and getting are two different things. I guess I will keep it for now. The reason I decided to share this cover though was that in searching on eBay I found an almost identical one from the same sender to the same person in Bridgewater mailed a few months later. This seller is one of those ones asking way beyond what I would consider realistic at $150.00 US Buy It Now. What are the odds of seeing these 2 covers about 25 years apart. Here is a photo borrowed from the eBay listing.
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Post by mudgie on Feb 19, 2022 7:44:18 GMT
Here is a Royal Mail First Day Cover, dated 1st February 2022, for the new 2D Barcode Machins. Royal Mail policy is that the barcode part of such stamps shouldn't be cancelled yet this is ignored on their First Day Covers.
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Post by daniel on Feb 19, 2022 12:36:14 GMT
Here is a Royal Mail First Day Cover, dated 1st February 2022, for the new 2D Barcode Machins. Royal Mail policy is that the barcode part of such stamps shouldn't be cancelled yet this is ignored on their First Day Covers. It arrived in an outer envelope so the stamps would not have been processed through any barcode reading system. Daniel
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 4,890
What I collect: Cinderellas and some Ephemera from Great Britain, France and Israel plus a few beautiful bits from elsewhere !! Topical interests include Flags & Judaica, the latter with an emphasis on the Jewish National Fund.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Feb 20, 2022 0:59:05 GMT
A CTO cock-up.
Arnold would not be amused.
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Post by daniel on Feb 20, 2022 12:52:59 GMT
A CTO cock-up. Arnold would not be amused. In fairness, the cover did pass through the mail but, as a courtesy, it was protected by an outer envelope. Also, the larger size of the stamps allows for a better, more detailed Machin depiction of the Queen.
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banknoteguy
Member
Posts: 291
What I collect: 19th Century US, High denomination US (> $1), 19th century covers US, Indian Feudatory States and most recently I acquired a BigBlue [with about 5,000 stamps] and pristine pages.
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Post by banknoteguy on Feb 22, 2022 15:25:49 GMT
This is a GB cover that I have a couple questions on. A letter from Thomas Coutts (well known banker in London) to James Dundas acknowledging receipt of a draft for 500 pounds.
Coutts handwriting is superb. Is it possible this is not his hand but a secretary? No indication of such on the letter but I don't know the protocol for such anyway.
Secondly, what is the significance of the W M on the orange postmark -- the other parts are clearly the date. Lastly, can anyone decode the scribbling on the letter which I assume is one amount crossed out and replaced by another amount?
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,290
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Feb 22, 2022 17:38:04 GMT
What can I add ??
1 Coutts Private Bank is only for those with large bank balances (HM Queen banks with Coutts)
2 There is a difference in the ink between the letter and the signature so it would have been copied by a clerk ( extra copy for bank file also ) and signed by the boss
3 James Dundas is "WS " = writer to the Signet which is fancy title for an Edinburgh lawyer
4 There is mention of transfer to the account of the Earl of Rosslyn written with the old fashioned long "s" looks like letter "f" £500 in 1813 is equivalent to nearly £45,000 today
5 the large Boxed [Addl. 1/2d] is an extra halfpenny charge on all mail in Scotland carried on a four wheeled coach for upkeep of the awful Scottish roads
6 The black scribble is the rate charged on receipt , based on the distance and the number of pages or weight . It looks like " 2/2 " ( two shillings and two pence ). London to Edinburgh was calculated at 400 Miles so this is the rate for a double letter over 300 miles . It seems this has been over written to 1/1 ½ as if it has been re assessed as a single letter at one shilling and one penny , plus the additional ½d:tax
7 I do not know the significance of the red W M but probably could be used to identify the the duty counter clerk who applied the datestamp.
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banknoteguy
Member
Posts: 291
What I collect: 19th Century US, High denomination US (> $1), 19th century covers US, Indian Feudatory States and most recently I acquired a BigBlue [with about 5,000 stamps] and pristine pages.
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Post by banknoteguy on Feb 22, 2022 18:01:14 GMT
That's a lot of additional info! Thanks. I love the 1/2d tax for road maintenance . I tried to find out more about James Dundas but did not come up with anything so far. The name seems quite common. What you said about the script rates on the cover makes sense.
I had completely missed the significance of the WS, expanding on what you said from Wikipaedia:
Solicitors in Scotland were previously known as "writers"; Writers to the Signet were the solicitors entitled to supervise use of the King's Signet, the private seal of the early Kings of Scots. Records of that use date back to 1369.[1] In 1532, the Writers to the Signet were included as Members in the newly established College of Justice, along with the Faculty of Advocates and the Clerks of the Court of Session. The Society was established in 1594, when the King's Secretary, as Keeper of the Signet, gave commissions to a Deputy Keeper and 18 other writers.[1]
Writers to the Signet began as clerks to the Keeper of the Signet, and were afforded the privileges of freedom from taxation by the Burgh of Edinburgh, exemption from military duty, and rights of audience before the bar of the College of Justice. Writers were involved in drawing up summonses to the Court of Session. Writers were, however, de jure prohibited from acting as procurators but de facto this was often ignored.[2]
In 1599 it was proposed that the Faculty of Advocates and the Society of Writers be merged into a single organisation, but the Writers were against it. Such an idea was again proposed in 1633, but the Writers again opposed it.[2]
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banknoteguy
Member
Posts: 291
What I collect: 19th Century US, High denomination US (> $1), 19th century covers US, Indian Feudatory States and most recently I acquired a BigBlue [with about 5,000 stamps] and pristine pages.
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Post by banknoteguy on Feb 22, 2022 18:17:23 GMT
I had also missed that the signature was not the same hand as body of the letter. Duhhhh. Clearly you are right that a clerk wrote the letter for the boss' signature.
But I wonder if the clerk had his own sort of signature. Note how he splits the word are across the tail of the W --
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Post by daniel on Feb 22, 2022 19:00:26 GMT
I had also missed that the signature was not the same hand as body of the letter. Duhhhh. Clearly you are right that a clerk wrote the letter for the boss' signature. But I wonder if the clerk had his own sort of signature. Note how he splits the word are across the tail of the W --
I'm sure the letter is simply signed Thomas Coutts & Co, a common practice for business letters. That was the name of the bank at that time. It would not have been signed by Thomas Coutts himself.
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Post by daniel on Feb 24, 2022 17:45:27 GMT
Jack, banknoteguy , I found this page in Collect British Postmarks by Dr J T Whitney. He identifies the orange mark, third from the left, as a Circular Edinburgh type with year in full used between 1801 and 1857. Note that the version that he shows has an A instead of M. We can surmise that A is for Afternoon and M is Morning. So, this must have been a mark applied in Edinburgh. The Additional 1/2d mark is also shown on this page. Daniel
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banknoteguy
Member
Posts: 291
What I collect: 19th Century US, High denomination US (> $1), 19th century covers US, Indian Feudatory States and most recently I acquired a BigBlue [with about 5,000 stamps] and pristine pages.
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Post by banknoteguy on Feb 24, 2022 19:41:28 GMT
Daniel,
Thanks for the additional info. I had been looking at Edinburgh covers available on eBay. This postmark is fairly common. There seem to be two types, a round type and an octagonal one. Well those are all I have found in a quick search.
The octagonal ones do only seem to come in W-M or W-A but the round ones have more variants that don't seem to indicate morning or afternoon.
Composite image of marks found (so far):
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Post by daniel on Feb 24, 2022 20:20:16 GMT
Jack, banknoteguy , okay then it must be an Edinburgh receiving mark (it can also be a transit mark for mail sent via Edinburgh). M seems right for Morning, A for Afternoon, E for Evening. The letter on the left identifies the handstamp. See this linkDaniel
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Post by mudgie on Feb 25, 2022 18:16:06 GMT
Royal Mail policy is that the barcode part of such stamps shouldn't be cancelled yet this is ignored on their First Day Covers. It arrived in an outer envelope so the stamps would not have been processed through any barcode reading system. Daniel Yes but surely a First Day Cover is meant to appear to have properly been through the post.
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Post by mudgie on Feb 25, 2022 18:18:11 GMT
A CTO cock-up. Arnold would not be amused. In fairness, the cover did pass through the mail but, as a courtesy, it was protected by an outer envelope. Also, the larger size of the stamps allows for a better, more detailed Machin depiction of the Queen. Not so much "as a courtesy" as to avoid all the trouble of replacing damaged ones.
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Post by daniel on Mar 11, 2022 23:29:07 GMT
This card presentation was issued for the 50th Anniversary of the D-Day Landings, Normandy, on 6th June 1994. Full set of British stamps issued on that day and the two French stamps issued on 4th June.
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Post by daniel on Mar 19, 2022 0:22:30 GMT
Royal Mail has just issued a set of stamps to mark the 150th Anniversary of the Football Association Cup. Here is an interesting cover for the centenary year 1972 , produced by The Royal Engineers. In 1872 Association Football consisted of amateur teams such as Old Etonians, Oxford University and The Royal Engineers. The finalists in that year were The Wanderers and The Royal Engineers with The Wanderers winning by one goal to nil. The Royal Engineers would go on to win in 1875.
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Post by daniel on Mar 22, 2022 22:44:29 GMT
Royal Engineers v Wanderers Revisited
Regarding the above post, that cover belongs to my brother and he has now shown me this ticket relating to a rematch 140 years later on 7th November 2012. Both teams play at non-league level.The Royal Engineers, part of the British Army, still has a football team playing in the military's Massey League. The Wanderers were defunct but reformed in 2009 and play in the Surrey South Eastern Combination. As with the original game, the rematch was played at The Oval Cricket Ground. This time, The Royal Engineers won by 7 goals to 1.
This is a good example of a piece of ephemera matching nicely with a philatelic item.
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Post by daniel on Apr 2, 2022 1:37:05 GMT
Hello these are some covers i found. Can someone help me to tell me if they are genuine or fabricated. This sounds perhaps strange but i once was told in a store that sometimes they fabricate envelopes with stamps. One of them states it is a FDC but i am not sure. The other two are made for a congress of some sort but i am not sure what. david , I can show the cover for which this particular commemorative postmark was created. It was produced for the Royal Mint, they were once based at Tower Hill, and they had minted a bicentenary medallion for William Wyon who worked for the Mint. The medallion is encased in the cover. The sender of your covers has made some effort to obtain these postmarks and the fact that they were kept by the recipients shows that they were appreciated.
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