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Post by printersart on Dec 8, 2022 15:25:18 GMT
I have this Scott #60 pre-cancelled that I cannot find, I show 12 listings for that year, and this is not one, thank you. I have been using a site call Colnect, the o is like a magnifying glass on the site but is of great help. I have found all but these three; it seems to be very accurate listing all the years and all stamps even if cancel mark is reversed, it has a number.    |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 8, 2022 18:32:52 GMT
This may not be helpfulI have a reference that I got from someone here on the Forum for a set of pages for the pre-canceled stamps (20 pages fro www.muneaux.france-timbres.net which unfortunately no longer seems to work) . There is no information on what/who's numbering system is used, but for the 1912 GENT 1/GANT bi-lingual overprints: 1 c Coat of Arms (COB #53) gets the number 22, the 2c Coat of Arms (#55 Brown) is awarded #26, and 1c Figure and standing Lion (#108) gets awarded #30. Below are the latter mentioned stamps. I do not one such as yours!   |
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anglobob
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Post by anglobob on Dec 8, 2022 19:17:13 GMT
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 8, 2022 19:31:24 GMT
thank anglobob unfortunately I do not see the Belgie pre-oblitres... COB follows Y&T numbering, so a Pre-cancel would be a PR #, but COB doesn't show any until years after these stamps (at least in my catalogue 2019) |
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daniel
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Post by daniel on Dec 8, 2022 20:56:27 GMT
I have this Scott # 60 pre-cancelled that i can not find , i show 12 listings for that year and this is not one , thank you I have been using a site call colnect , the o is like a magnifying glass on the site but is of great help i have found all but these three it seems to be very accurate listing all the years and all stamps even if cancel mark is reversed it has a number Maybe Ryan can help see this link |
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Mr. H
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Post by Mr. H on Dec 8, 2022 22:09:34 GMT
Steiner has album pages for the Belgian Precancels. The early years (1930 and before) appear to be considered local precancels.
Colnect is a great resource, but it's not always complete.
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 8, 2022 22:15:57 GMT
Here's something else to look at, though no numbering
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renden
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Post by renden on Dec 8, 2022 22:44:21 GMT
Here's something else to look at, though no numbering Proves Steiner might be OK at times - I used his classic pages in s few Countries........ Thanks Stan - René |
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Dec 9, 2022 1:27:01 GMT
I have this Scott # 60 pre-cancelled that i can not find , i show 12 listings for that year and this is not one The Belgian preos catalogue lists 6 different cities which used typographical overprints in 1925 on the 2 cent brown King Albert stamp (there were 50 different cities which had hand roller precancels applied). There were 3 different printing varieties for that 2 cent stamp which have overprints, and the Brussels 1925 typographical overprint you show has a catalogue value of 20 Belgian francs for the London 1915 printing but is valued at 110 francs for the London 1919 and 1920 printings. I should note that 20 francs seems to be a more-or-less minimum catalogue value - there are a very limited number of listings for stamps with city overprints valued at less than 20 francs, perhaps a dozen or so. There are multiple hundreds of city listings valued at 20 francs. The Leuven 1927 typographical overprint is also a low value stamp, 20 Belgian francs. That 5c stamp can be found with typographical overprints from 6 different cities. Your Ghent 1912 typographical overprint is valued at 75 Belgian francs - note that it is only available with the overprint reading downward, so it's not a case of being rare in that direction, it's the only direction you'll ever see for the 1912 typographical overprints (4 different cities). Ryan |
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tobben63
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Post by tobben63 on Dec 9, 2022 8:03:43 GMT
I have this Scott # 60 pre-cancelled that i can not find , i show 12 listings for that year and this is not one , thank you I have been using a site call colnect , the o is like a magnifying glass on the site but is of great help i have found all but these three it seems to be very accurate listing all the years and all stamps even if cancel mark is reversed it has a number LEUVEN 1927 and GENT 1912 is not listed on Colnect. (Colnect is a wiki = some user have to do the job and register unlisted stamps and upload an image and it have to be accepted by a moderator) I don't have access to the COB catalogue here, but I might have it at home (pdf). |
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cjoprey
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Post by cjoprey on Dec 9, 2022 20:41:49 GMT
I have a digital copy of the 1996 catalog of pre-cancelled Belgian stamps - which runs through over 6000 different roller-cancelled stamps and then another series of 800+ typographic cancelled stamps (which is also in COB, but only from #333 onwards). It's a bit of a nightmare... Having said that, your three are all in there under the typographic precancels with the following details: 1) type II, overprint type A (text read from right) for BRUSSEL 1925, listed as #109-II A, valued 110 Francs 2) overprint type A (text read from right) for LEUVEN 1927, listed as #159A, valued 20 Francs 3) overprint type B (text read from left) for GENT 1912, listed as #22B, valued 75 Francs |
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bjornbelgium
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Post by bjornbelgium on Dec 17, 2022 23:21:22 GMT
Hi, This might help: There's two types of preo cancellations in Belgium. Ones done manually, with a handroller. Ones printed by machine. The machine ones are listed in older catalogues from Belgium (COB - OBP) My newer catalogues from 2012 and 2022 only list them from around PRE333. I however kept some pieces of my 1998 catalogue, which has them all  All stamps in this thread are listed in them (as mentioned allready above). The 2c Bruxelles 1925 Brussel is listed as nr. V109 (newer catalogue uses pre*** as in preo (preoblitéré), older one uses V as in the dutch word 'voorafgestempeld' wich means precancelled... the 5c houyoux Leuven 1927 Louvain is listed as nr. V154 the 1c coat of arms Gent I 1912 Gand I is listed as nr. V22.             |
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bjornbelgium
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Post by bjornbelgium on Dec 17, 2022 23:27:24 GMT
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 23, 2022 0:01:46 GMT
Herer are some 1938 and 1939 hexagon pre-cancels I received today. I'm not sure about the vertical pairs... I may break apart (too much rabbit hole temptation to find full year sets*...) Anyone have an opinion on the pairs? 
^the Roman numeral indicates month of use, so there's quite a few stamps to track down. |
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bjornbelgium
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Post by bjornbelgium on Dec 23, 2022 8:54:53 GMT
Herer are some 1938 and 1939 hexagonal pre-cancels I received today. I'm not sure about the vertical pairs... I may break apart (too much rabbit hole temptation to find full year sets*...) Anyone have an opinion on the pairs? (See previous post for image.)
The Roman numeral indicates month of use, so there's quite a few stamps to track down. Nice lot there  I don't think the pairs are added value. There are quite a few indeed of 1938... happy hunting  I don't have any of the hexagon preo's myself, lot of work still ahead for me too |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jan 9, 2023 16:19:44 GMT
While looking through stamps to see if i had overlooked any -10% overprints (I found one so far) I noticed this and what appears to be a pre-oblitre/pre-cancel But I found nothing in COTP (although there is a mind-boggling number of issues). Overprint for Gent, but perhaps the"T" indicates an official/tax usage, Roam numeral V should indicate May (5th month_ but it could also be that some additional Roman Numerals are 'off' the stamp, or the very light mark is a "I" with poor inking?. 21 or the star? No idea Anyone know? Anybody know?  |
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cjoprey
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Post by cjoprey on Jan 9, 2023 21:30:06 GMT
Hi Stan stainlessb - I don't think that is a precancel, but I'm also struggling to find any information on what cancellation it is. I do know that it must be in Flemish as it can only be the town of "Gent" (it would be "Gand" if in French). Which could then potentially mean that the "V" (if not for a month number in Latin) could also mean Friday ("Vrijdag" in Flemish). This is all just supposition though. |
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tobben63
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Post by tobben63 on Jan 10, 2023 19:06:30 GMT
I have to check this, but can it be a part of a parcel cancel (train cancel)?
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jan 10, 2023 19:39:19 GMT
tobben63 ah! the light went on with your reply, Although I did not find Gent listed, but seems GENAPPE is a likley suspect, except GENAPPE is listed as 1933 and this stamp wasn't issued until; 1944... but htere is a foot note that it was used until 1951, but that seems to be related to MORLANWELZ From the Belgian Study Circle, Jones, Railway Parcel Post Cancellation of Belgium, 2003
 The T5 mentioned looks not at all like the GENT stamp. I will forward to BSC.
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