janetc
Member
Posts: 320
What I collect: US and WW. Lighthouses, Dragons and Christmas
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Post by janetc on Dec 11, 2018 22:25:46 GMT
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Post by tallanent on Dec 12, 2018 0:48:31 GMT
The picture is still grainy when I enlarge to look at the corner stars ... That said - I think plate 2
ATB ... Allan
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,451
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Post by khj on Dec 12, 2018 0:53:23 GMT
Appears to me as plate 2, state 1. But I'm just a novice at plating these.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,451
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Post by khj on Dec 12, 2018 0:56:01 GMT
I missed reading Allan's post while I was checking the plate. I couldn't rely on the NW corner, so I matched the check letters/positions instead, plate 2 appeared to be the only option that could not be ruled out. Looks like the burr between "NE" is still there, so I chose state 1 (rather than later repaired states).
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Post by TinMan on Dec 12, 2018 1:07:21 GMT
I wonder how many of these Penny Blacks and Blues that are surfacing are reprints or reproductions. I'll bet this comment will stir up a hornets nest.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,451
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Post by khj on Dec 12, 2018 1:13:33 GMT
Just check for the watermark. That will immediately weed out the bulk of the reproductions/forgeries. For the Penny Black and 2d Blue, the watermark is really easy to spot with the unaided eye -- don't even need watermark fluid.
Of course, a faked cover is a different beast...
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Post by tallanent on Dec 12, 2018 1:35:33 GMT
I missed reading Allan's post while I was checking the plate. I couldn't rely on the NW corner, so I matched the check letters/positions instead, plate 2 appeared to be the only option that could not be ruled out. Looks like the burr between "NE" is still there, so I chose state 1 (rather than later repaired states). So nice when someone else comes to the same answer ....
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 4,864
What I collect: Cinderellas and some Ephemera from Great Britain, France and Israel plus a few beautiful bits from elsewhere !! Topical interests include Flags & Judaica, the latter with an emphasis on the Jewish National Fund.
Member is Online
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Post by Londonbus1 on Dec 12, 2018 12:49:09 GMT
I wonder how many of these Penny Blacks and Blues that are surfacing are reprints or reproductions. I'll bet this comment will stir up a hornets nest. The nest has already been stirred !! I have touched on the subject with examples in the upcoming TSF Newsletter and am considering a more in-depth article in the near future. Big discussion elsewhere now too. Londonbus1
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,705
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Dec 12, 2018 14:01:31 GMT
Just check for the watermark. That will immediately weed out the bulk of the reproductions/forgeries. For the Penny Black and 2d Blue, the watermark is really easy to spot with the unaided eye -- don't even need watermark fluid. Of course, a faked cover is a different beast... My Penny Black which I have since 1964 has a nice watermark....will scan it later after breakfast (here in Eastern Canada) René Plate 1a
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,654
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Dec 12, 2018 14:44:35 GMT
Just check for the watermark. That will immediately weed out the bulk of the reproductions/forgeries. For the Penny Black and 2d Blue, the watermark is really easy to spot with the unaided eye -- don't even need watermark fluid. Of course, a faked cover is a different beast... My Penny Black which I have since 1964 has a nice watermark....will scan it later after breakfast (here in Eastern Canada) René Plate 4 - stamp appears darker.and uniform...scans are scans René, that's a beauty--good for you! I really like this issue with the red cancellation. Now you guys all have me worried, because I just got my Penny Black last year, and I never checked it for a watermark....
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Post by tallanent on Dec 12, 2018 16:15:21 GMT
Just check for the watermark. That will immediately weed out the bulk of the reproductions/forgeries. For the Penny Black and 2d Blue, the watermark is really easy to spot with the unaided eye -- don't even need watermark fluid. Of course, a faked cover is a different beast... My Penny Black which I have since 1964 has a nice watermark....will scan it later after breakfast (here in Eastern Canada) René Plate 4 - stamp appears darker.and uniform...scans are scans Are you sure it is plate 4 ... the check letter placement looks very different as shown below ...
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,705
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Dec 12, 2018 16:42:03 GMT
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,705
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Dec 14, 2018 1:43:55 GMT
tallanent -You never responded to the plating of my Penny Black.....if not a 4.......1a ? René
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Post by tallanent on Dec 14, 2018 2:08:27 GMT
Yes .... plate 1 .. The quality of the scan / image does not show the top corner stars well enough for me to say which state - but if you have checked - thats good enough for me ....
With regards to the site you mention - I really must get back to getting that up to date ..... Just so many other things on the go at the moment ....
Allan
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,705
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Dec 14, 2018 13:51:35 GMT
tallanent Thanks for your response. Please send me any new info that would help and I note that my link is your site !! Happy to meet the expert.. ...cannot scan better than 600 dpi René
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Post by jkjblue on Dec 15, 2018 23:11:25 GMT
Here is my Penny Black.. What do the platers think?
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Post by tallanent on Dec 16, 2018 3:02:00 GMT
QK - Plate 2 (at a quick glance ... Certainly one of the early plates with the 10 / 7 ray flaw in the top left corner
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,588
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Dec 16, 2018 9:19:42 GMT
So here's my own PB copy. I got it using some of the money from my move-in allowance to my current job. It was some 35 years of collecting before I finally did get one!
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Post by tallanent on Dec 16, 2018 15:36:05 GMT
So here's my own PB copy. I got it using some of the money from my move-in allowance to my current job. It was some 35 years of collecting before I finally did get one! Looks to be a trace of the O flaw (between the O and N of ONE at the base) - this would give plates 7, 8, 9 and 10 Again without checking my guess would be plate 7
For breaking these plates into groups the details on this thread may be useful
Allan
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Post by tallanent on Dec 17, 2018 4:03:01 GMT
Yes .... plate 1 .. The quality of the scan / image does not show the top corner stars well enough for me to say which state - but if you have checked - thats good enough for me ....
With regards to the site you mention - I really must get back to getting that up to date ..... Just so many other things on the go at the moment ....
Allan
With regards to the above posts and finding myself in a rare situation with no meetings etc tomorrow ... I have started working on an updated version of this plating aid ... This will contain sections on the Penny Blacks, Two Pence Blues (plates 1-4), The VR Officials and the plate 9 photographic forgeries ...
I am working through these in reverse order and the photographic forgeries section is now done ... and I am at the moment working on the VR officials, having got as far as the G row at this time ...
My intention is to work through the night and tomorrow to try and get as much of this done as soon as possible
I will post updates - probably with pictures as I find some of the nice items that are scanned ....
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Post by tallanent on Dec 17, 2018 4:22:51 GMT
The VR Officials are now done to the I row .... This block of 4 will be illustrated in the listings ...
These will be tasters of the detail included .... but hope that they provide some interest for members ... Gonna grab a coffee (as its now 4-20am) ... then will work on the J row and onward ...
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Post by tallanent on Dec 17, 2018 6:40:49 GMT
OK ... so now 6-30am (another coffee required) - and the VR officials are done through to the M row ... The following is shown in the listings ...
Once this area of the site has been done (the 4 inter-related sections) - the user will be able to bring up all these images (and more) and see the details relating to them
Hope that these are giving a taste of what is to come once this area is finished ...
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Post by tallanent on Dec 17, 2018 13:43:10 GMT
OK .... The sub-section on the VR officials has now been finished with a couple of additions for the registration sheets ...
As this area is four sub-sections all linked together, the next to be attacked will be the 2d Blues (then followed by the 1d blacks section - the largest of the four sections) ...
I will naturally NOT post any of the 2d blues to this thread - but will keep members updated on the progress as I work through the letter combinations ...
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,705
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Dec 17, 2018 14:04:21 GMT
QK - Plate 2 (at a quick glance ... Certainly one of the early plates with the 10 / 7 ray flaw in the top left corner tallanent, wouldn't it be more educational for us BP newbies (non platers) to understand your "terminology" (ex:....with th 10/7 ray flaw i the top left corner) ?? Thanks for your expertise René
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Post by tallanent on Dec 17, 2018 14:37:10 GMT
QK - Plate 2 (at a quick glance ... Certainly one of the early plates with the 10 / 7 ray flaw in the top left corner tallanent , wouldn't it be more educational for us BP newbies (non platers) to understand your "terminology" (ex:....with th 10/7 ray flaw i the top left corner) ?? Thanks for your expertise René All the details on the ray flaws, O flaws, bulge etc are explained on this board - information I showed for just that reason - so that people could work it through for themselves There is also a link to this about 5 posts up that I added to one of my replies - again so collectors can practice for themselves. The following link will show the details ...
Hope this answers the questions / points raised
Allan
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,705
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Dec 17, 2018 16:00:11 GMT
Allan tallanentThank you very much for guiding me to a 2015 post which explains exactly what you were referring to. Great !
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Post by tallanent on Dec 18, 2018 14:58:24 GMT
OK .... The sub-section on the VR officials has now been finished with a couple of additions for the registration sheets ... As this area is four sub-sections all linked together, the next to be attacked will be the 2d Blues (then followed by the 1d blacks section - the largest of the four sections) ... I will naturally NOT post any of the 2d blues to this thread - but will keep members updated on the progress as I work through the letter combinations ... Just as an update - I am now starting on the E row for the 2d blues
I am aiming to get this entire section finished by the end of the year .... but there are a lot of stamps and thus a lot of pages etc to be done ...
Allan
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Post by tallanent on Dec 18, 2018 23:58:44 GMT
OK .... The sub-section on the VR officials has now been finished with a couple of additions for the registration sheets ... As this area is four sub-sections all linked together, the next to be attacked will be the 2d Blues (then followed by the 1d blacks section - the largest of the four sections) ... I will naturally NOT post any of the 2d blues to this thread - but will keep members updated on the progress as I work through the letter combinations ... Just as an update - I am now starting on the E row for the 2d blues
I am aiming to get this entire section finished by the end of the year .... but there are a lot of stamps and thus a lot of pages etc to be done ...
Allan
OK ... the section on the 2d blues has now been done (as far as I have examples) .. and work will nest continue with the largest section - that on the Penny Blacks
This is a very large section as each check letter has up to 15 stamps - these being plates 1 to 11 (with plate 1 being in two states - 1A and 1B) In addition there is the so called Royal Reprint in black from plate 66 in 1865 The Paris exhibition proofs from plate 103 in 1867 and The South Kensington exhibition proofs from plate 27 in 1872
Once I get started on this section, I will again post a few pictures to show along with updates of where I am in the project ...
Allan
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,705
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Dec 19, 2018 0:09:22 GMT
Thanks Allan tallanent !! It would be great to have.....again......your link (web) for all this work Regards - René
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Post by tallanent on Dec 19, 2018 1:25:37 GMT
Thanks Allan tallanent !! It would be great to have.....again......your link (web) for all this work Regards - René Just got all the basic details for the plates in place ... Now I just have to work through each check letter position for each of the 15 plates involved .... but this will have to wait until tomorrow (later today) as it is now 1-20am and I need some sleep
Once I have this all done and in place, I will post up a link for all members - then I shall start working through the threads on here and grabbing any pictures I can add to supplement the details ...
All the best ... Allan
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