stainlessb
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qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 14, 2023 16:16:11 GMT
I am in the process of translating Storch & Francon's 2 volume work on the France Semeuse cameé (Sower), so I can better use the reference (rather than bits and pieces of it)
As someone who does not speak (or rread) fluently in French, Google translate is not always my best friend.....
Here is an example Les Poincons et les caracterisiques familiales which Google translates to Hallmarks and family characteristics
This has to do with the different Types (which is related to Types, but Type seems a subset of Family). In some usage poincopns translates as punch, which I believe this refers to the engraved die itself...
having said this, then "Hallmark" would seem to be those traits specific to a "Type" die (or punch)
Does my logic make sense?
Thanks Stan
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Mar 14, 2023 17:57:07 GMT
Stan ( stainlessb), I have done a quick look the old-fashioned way, using a hard-copy dictionary. Google Translate seems to give only limited possibilities. According to the Cassell's French Dictionary, which I bought in the 1980s, here is what it says: It appears that the hallmark meaning is more specific to the term "poinçon de contrôle" rather than a general use. For philatelic terms, I think we should tag Xavier ( hrdoktorx), as I think he will be able to give the best, most correct translation for your purposes.
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hrdoktorx
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What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Mar 14, 2023 18:30:03 GMT
I would indeed translate "poinçon" as "engraved die" as stainlessb proposed.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,906
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 14, 2023 18:52:00 GMT
Thank you!
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Post by jkjblue on Mar 14, 2023 19:03:47 GMT
The French-English Philatelic Dictionary from Henry Gitner Philatelists Inc. that came with my Maury catalogue lists "poincon" as "die".
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renden
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What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Mar 14, 2023 19:10:07 GMT
The French-English Philatelic Dictionary from Henry Gitner Philatelists Inc. that came with my Maury catalogue lists "poincon" as "die". JK, reming me what is " die" - I probably know the french term as I was raised in my late dad's printing/newspaper etc enterprise René.....too lazy to do a search
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Mar 14, 2023 19:26:34 GMT
Hi Rene I think the French term for “die” might be “poinçon”. 😀😀😀
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,906
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 14, 2023 19:59:34 GMT
yes, the poincon is the engraved die (with no denomination, so it could be used multiple times). This would then be pressed into the plate (however many stamps were to be printed with each printing 'press". These would be re-touched over time to adjust for wear or in the case of the Semeuse cameé to correct issues with the original poincon (engraved by Mouchon) that the Postmaster (and others I suppose) did not like. I am not sure why some variants only show up in specfic plate positions, whether it was something when the die was struck into the plate, or whether as a result of a 're touch"
I can only imagine the tedious task for those who got to go add the letters into the early GB QV plates i(Penny black, blue and red), but if not for that some of the earliest stamps would be very difficult (or a much bigger task) to identify plate numbers.
of course, much of this , while interesting does not aid me in identifying the different types
ammunition for academic discourse!!
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renden
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What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Mar 14, 2023 20:02:53 GMT
Hi Rene I think the French term for “die” might be “poinçon”. 😀😀😀 Alex....just wanted to know what "die" meant, not the opposite - thanks as always René
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Mar 15, 2023 15:03:33 GMT
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renden
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Posts: 9,162
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Mar 15, 2023 15:19:19 GMT
vikingeck (Alex) Thanks for you humour - love it !! so do not stop....... Die is exactly what I thought (I had a senior moment) - Thanks René
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