Identifying the Germania Definitives

Oh my, you might want to consider for a while as these can get REALLY big and complex. In nutshell, there are:
* 3 different designs (one with inscription REICHSPOST, two with DEUTCHES REICH)
* several paper types (unwatermarked, two different watermarks and a very rare fiscal/revenue watermark on one value)
* 60 major numbers (in Michel; have not checked how Scott lists these but I would expect more or less the same) + countless variations if you go beyond simplified catalogs.

Then there are the various overprints for German territories/areas. Again, very plenty...

But the basic values should be pretty easy and cheap to collect/acquire.

Wikipedia has a pretty good overview: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_(stamp)

L.L.S.  The Germania issues have always been one of my favorites.  All the issues are pretty straight forward and easy to identify.  The exception would be the 5 mark Reichpost which has two distinct varieities that can be easily confused. As a matter of fact I got my Type I (Scott 65) from a German dealer that had it mis-identified it as the much cheaper type II.
The 2 mark also has a few differences mostly in the type.  Another nice thing about sorting them is that the watermarks can be seen without fluid.
Below find the different types of the issue.  Scan should be large enough to tell any type differences.

I.L.S.  I would not get scared off of them.  There are only 3 values that are very difficult to obtain.
The 5 Mark Reichpost type I, the bisected "Vineta" (only 300 produced) and the 3 Mark (Scott number 102)
with unique, to the series, multiple circles watermark.  I don't have either of the last two, the bisect I show is a catalog cut out.   The rest are quite easy with the exception of a couple you'll have to lay out a little more than loose change.
If you get totally entrenched with U.S. you will soon find yourself at a dead end.  I haven't done anything with my U.S. for about 20 years. I've been putting off remounting my 1930's thru 40's for all that time.  I have most of the rest of the world scanned but only go up to 1920's on my site with the U.S.  This morning I got up about 6 am an started mounting what I needed to scan the rest up til 1992, if I keep at it I should be done with it this week.
That is, if I don't run out of mounts.

Besides the Types reported in the Scott catalogue for the 1900 Reichpost Scott 65 5M, there is a fairly obvious difference in the Reichpost Scott 64 3m black violet "Unveiling Kaiser Wilhelm I memorial, Berlin" stamp reported in the Michel catalogue.


The "Looser rein" (Type I) vs the "tight rein" (Type II)



Scott 64, but Michel 65I (Type I) close-up- note a looser rein
And the Kaiser's upper body leans back slightly
With a convex (rounder) front (Breastplate) profile
Note there is no "white indentation" between the Kaiser's hand and his front torso

Michel Type I has all the above characteristics. It will perhaps be clearer when one compares to Type II below.



Scott 64, but Michel65(II) (Type II)-Close-up of REICHPOST Type II-Note tight/straight reins
Also, a "white indentation" between the Kaiser's hand and his front torso
And the front (Breastplate) profile of the torso is angled straight, not curved


Summarizing the differences:
A) Loose rein (Type I) vs tight rein (Type II)
B) Kaiser's torso leans back slightly in Type I
C) Rounder (Type I) vs straight angled (Type II) front Breastplate torso profile
D) "White indentation" noted between the Kaiser's hand and his front torso in Type II

Since Scott doesn't have the types in their catalogue, it is ignored by many- but the differences are fairly obvious.

1840to1940  I did that on another thread but don't remember where.
Well no simple answer but here goes.  1st off I use any mount that comes my way except Crystal or some other inferior mount type.
If I were to use a pre cut mount I would use Hawid "top loader" or "open top".  However I do not buy pre cut or multiple sizes of strips.
I prefer top loaders as opposed to "split backs".  Stamps are much easier to inspect when you are using top loaders.  I've also had some damage problems when trying to remove stamps especially if the mount is glued down at top and bottom.  You should only ever stick the top part of a split back, otherwise you are making it to difficult to inspect.  Also you will not be able to remove and reuse them if you go to new pages.  I don't ever use the glue on the back of mounts instead a glue stick gives just the right amount of "stick" so you can remove with ease.  I've ruined a lot of pages trying to remove mounts and that is usually unfortunate. The biggest draw back of split backs are that you can not cut them down both ways, having to buy every size mount is not to my liking.
I also prefer dark mounts as opposed to clear.  I think Black background shows most stamps off better than page color.  I also dislike looking at auction lots where the stamps are on the page color.  Unless the scans are pretty good you can not see the perfs and perfs is important!

So what I use are top loading Black/dark mounts.
What I do is get the widest splitback strips in packs of 10, I can find, for the best price (usually on Ebay)
The last ones I got were Showgard 80mm X 240mm.  I use my large shear and cut them lengthwise down the split.  This gives me 20 long strips that I can cut down to fit most stamps. You need a medium large shear and a small philatelic shear but versatility is where it's at.  One has to be careful when cutting down strip length wise.  They like to move on you so you need to secure it better than the hold down on the shear.  A thick piece of card stock will usually fit under the shears hold down.  You need to get a piece as long as the strip place it under the hold down and on top of the mount.  Position the mount where you want it to make your cut,  bringing the card up to an 1/8-1/4" from the cutter/mount edge, hold down and chomp.
The saving can be substantial.

I got a couple nice lots in today of Italy and Poland that I needed to make some mounts for.  So I figured a picture might help about the placement of the card. You still need to push down with your fingers on the hold down to get a clean cut.  Always make sure that your outside edge of the strip (opposite the cut side) runs straight down the lines in the shear table. You do not need a card to assist holdown when using the small philatelic shears but you have to keep firm even pressure.  With a little practice you can cut perfect mounts and be more self reliant, which is a good thing.

I.L.S.  I love the U.S Revenues as well and they would probably be the last thing to go if I passed my collection along.  It's not to bad but there is still much work I can do to it.  I haven't concentrated on them in a long while and it will still be quite some time before I get back to them.  You can see the bulk of it here:  mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/us/usbob.html

As far as the Germania, what do you need to know?  First thing is usually if you like them. That seems to be the case so maybe I'm not clear on your hesitation.  I was thinking you were just wanting to collect the Germania issues that were for use in Germany.  I can't recall anyone that ever just specialized in the Germania issue by itself.  No doubt there must be quite a few out there who do and for good reason, it would make a great specialty!  Actually most of the ones that were overprinted and used outside Germany are pretty inexpensive and easy to obtain.  There are of course exceptions but no more than any other early classic area. 
I went ahead and searched my collection for all the other Germania issues.  I might have missed a few but most
all should be here and give you a good idea of the whole deal.  I just made up a link to all these from the German index.  See here:  Germaina Issues Abroad

I actually added a couple Germania to my collection yesterday.  Poland 1919 provisionals they are a couple of the harder ones. Seems somebody broke up a sheet of each a few weeks ago and the price has got real low on them, around $20 the NH pair.  Scott cats $400 the hinged pair. They both have recognized expert marks. Also picked up a block of 4 of the 10 ovpt but I have not received it yet or know why I bought it, cept it was cheap.

I thought you might be interested. 

As collectors in the U.S. do not pay much attention to the Reichpost 3 M stamp because of Scott's silence on types, a practiced informed eye will soon find a type II. 

I love it when collectors share their expertise like this. Well designed and easy to use. Unfortunately, I can't get to my albums now but I look forward to comparing what I have with your guide.

Michael (Londonbus1), many thanks for revising the title of this thread. I think that it will now be possible to revive it for the current members.

So, Peter (brightonpete), if I recall correctly, you had professed some problems with sorting and identifying the Germania definitives. There may have also been interest from René (renden) and Mike (mikeclevenger), but I am not 100% sure, so please forgive me if I am not quite right.

Anyway, while preparing to start a new thread on how to easily identify the Germania issues, I found this thread from 6 years ago languishing deep in the Germany sub-board that has some great info on the Germania series and how to identify and sort them. I am still planning to write up a little summary now that I have learned how to do it, but I wanted to add it to this thread, which already has some great info and scans from the beautiful collection of antoniusra.

Also, Jim (jkjblue), has provided some additional information on identifying varieties of the higher denomination stamps in the series, which should be useful to all who are collecting classic Germany. I will make another post or two on this subject later this evening my time.

Thanks for finding AND resurrecting this thread. Now I can get down to brass tacks and figure out what I have. I just have to keep those tacks away from the stamps!

I'm trying to write up a guide for this series of stamps. Using Scott, I see errors and a general lack of info. If there isn't a watermark, it would be nice if that is noted. Some issues are watermarked, but Scott's doesn't mention that. One stamp cited has no corresponding entry. There are many varieties according to Michel, but one is lucky if Scott's adds a note underneath.

Good thing for Google Translate!

I'll muddle through this eventually.

Sorting Germania Issues:
The Basics for Identification

I would like to begin by expressing my thanks to Jeff (I.L.S. ) for starting this thread.  It is an honor for me to be able to continue the discussion that you started in 2013, thanks to your continuous fascination with all things related to stamps.  Although it was not your area, you started a thread and asked a question.  And thanks to Antonius (antoniusra ) and Jim (jkjblue ) for responding in excellent fashion.  I checked out the collection website of Antonius, and it is superb.  I have a long way to go, and I may never get close to what I have seen from him.... wow!

Just as a disclaimer:  I am no specialist or expert in this area, and there are very likely others on this Forum who know more about this subject than I do.  But I recently figured out how to correctly identify the Germania issues while sorting and organizing my Germany collection, so just wanted to share my experience here, as I know that there are others who are preparing to do the same.  From my point of view, the good news is that once you learn the basics, the Germania issues are not too difficult to identify correctly.  So, here goes:

Design of the Stamps
If you prefer to start with the front-side of the stamps (most people do, I would guess), there are basically three designs.  The first one is easiest to identify, as it is inscribed REICHSPOST, which corresponds to Scott design number A11.  There is only one set of Germania design stamps inscribed REICHSPOST, and they are Sc 52-61.  These stamps have no watermark.  All of the other Germania stamps are inscribed DEUTSCHES REICH.  Here are some images for comparison:


Germania Design Scott A11, stamps inscribed REICHSPOST with colored horizontal lines as background behind central image


Germania Design Scott A16, stamps inscribed DEUTSCHES REICH with colored horizontal lines as background behind central image


Germania Design Scott A22, stamps inscribed DEUTSCHES REICH with white background (i.e. no lines) behind central image

Types of Watermarks
Once you have sorted the stamps according to design types, all of those inscribed REICHSPOST (Scott design A11) are necessarily Sc 52-61.  I would recommend then dealing with the A16 types next, which will be the largest pile.  These should be flipped over onto the reverse to look for watermarks.  In my experience with the Germania issues, the watermarks were easy to see under strong light over a dark background without any sort of fluid.  If you have stamps from collections or a large mixture, I imagine that the A16-design pile will be the largest, as it was used the most by far.

To sort your A16 stamps, you will find some with no watermark, and others with lozenges (Scott Wmk 125) or network (Scott Wmk 126).  There is also one scarce variety printed on paper with a quatrefoil watermark (Scott Wmk 127).  Images of the three watermarks are shown below, with the Scott Catalogue designations.  Using a strong light source, these should be easy enough to see without fluid.  You may find, as I did, that hinge remnants can interfere with identifying watermarks, so I did have to soak some stamps to remove the remnants in order to identify the correct watermark.



I will try to create an identification table and post that in the coming days, but at this point, I can summarize a simplified way to ID the Germania stamps, using Scott numbers:

Sc 52-61, Design A11, inscribed REICHSPOST, no watermark
Sc 65C-74, Design A16, inscribed DEUTSCHES REICH, no watermark
Sc 80-91, Design A16, inscribed DEUTSCHES REICH, Watermark 125 - Lozenges
Sc 96-101, Design A22, inscribed DEUTSCHES REICH, white background behind central figure, Watermark 125 - Lozenges
Sc 118-119, Design A16, inscribed DEUTSCHES REICH, Watermark 125 - Lozenges
Sc 120, Design A22, inscribed DEUTSCHES REICH, white background behind central figure, Watermark 125 - Lozenges
Sc 121-132, Design A16, inscribed DEUTSCHES REICH, Watermark 125 - Lozenges
Sc 133-136, Design A16, inscribed DEUTSCHES REICH, Watermark 125 - Lozenges (Surcharged Values)
Sc 169 & 174, Design A16, inscribed DEUTSCHES REICH, Watermark 126 - Network
Sc 210, Design A16, inscribed DEUTSCHES REICH, Watermark 127 - Quatrefoils (Scarce with high CV)

For me, I have decided that this is good enough for my purposes as a non-specialist.  But even the Scott Catalogue lists paper/printing varieties for pre-WWI and wartime issues, as well as color varieties for many of the stamps.  So, it is up to you to decide to what level you want to go, but hopefully, this will help with the basic identification, and then you can decide when to stop, based on your level of interest.  Personally, I really like the design of these stamps, so I enjoy looking at them and identifying them.  The Germania issues were also extensively overprinted and surcharged for use in German Offices Abroad and during occupations, so you have the possibility to encounter these same underlying stamps in many places in your albums and catalogues.