rod222
Member
Posts: 9,866
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
|
Post by rod222 on Nov 30, 2013 10:23:07 GMT
Central LithuaniaWiki The Republic of Central Lithuania or Middle Lithuania , was a short-lived political entity, which did not gain international recognition. The republic was created in 1920 following the staged rebellion of soldiers of the 1st Lithuanian–Belarusian Infantry Division of the Polish Army under Lucjan Żeligowski, supported by the Polish air force, cavalry and artillery. Centered around the historical capital of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Vilna , for eighteen months the entity served as a buffer state between Poland, upon which it depended, and Lithuania, which claimed the area. After a variety of delays, a disputed election took place on 8th January 1922, and the territory was annexed to Poland. The republic was regarded by some as a Poland-dependent puppet state. Initially the Polish government denied that it was responsible for the false flag action that created the entity, but Polish leader, Józef Piłsudski, subsequently acknowledged that he personally ordered Żeligowski to pretend that he was acting as a mutinous Polish officer. The Polish-Lithuanian borders in the interwar period, while recognized by the Conference of Ambassadors of the Entente and the League of Nations, were not recognized by the Republic of Lithuania. In 1931 an international court in The Hague issued the statement that the Polish seizure of the city had been a violation of international law. Page 1 (Stamps requiring a second mortgage, omitted) Page 2
|
|
scb
Member
Inactive
Now at 100,000+ worldwide stamps, and progressing one stamp at a time towards the 200K
Posts: 313
|
Post by scb on Nov 30, 2013 18:50:37 GMT
Nice to see I'm not the only one missing those (hugely expensive) overprints, LOL.
|
|
rod222
Member
Posts: 9,866
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
|
Post by rod222 on Nov 30, 2013 20:34:37 GMT
Yes, Like to see those in the flesh... Page 3 Perf 14 (Perf 13.5 = $150 ) These are a bit tricky, with my examples, one can see the difference in perforations by eye but on the gauge there is the 13.5 is about 13.7, but placing each stamp alongside a given perf 14, can easily separate. It begs the question how this perf variety came into existence.
|
|
BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
|
Post by BC on Dec 1, 2013 0:25:07 GMT
Of course I prefer used . Wilno (now Vilnius) 1920 cancel. Not sure if it is Jan 1 or Dec 12.
|
|
BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
|
Post by BC on Dec 1, 2013 0:36:59 GMT
|
|
rod222
Member
Posts: 9,866
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
|
Post by rod222 on Dec 1, 2013 2:20:52 GMT
I am a negative so and so, when it comes to CL postmarks, I smell dodgy enterprises pty ltd.
I only have one pmk that even comes close to muster, Swieciany and that used Roman Numerals for the month slug.
A village noted in the holocaust 20 years later
|
|
rod222
Member
Posts: 9,866
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
|
Post by rod222 on Dec 1, 2013 2:26:17 GMT
The 6 Markka green and buff, on the last page, has its place in history, as the first observatory featured on stamps.
|
|
scb
Member
Inactive
Now at 100,000+ worldwide stamps, and progressing one stamp at a time towards the 200K
Posts: 313
|
Post by scb on Dec 1, 2013 10:34:44 GMT
I've got roughly 2 (stockbook) pages full of Central Lithuania. First page is used items. The below is one of the few stamps I've had no heart to soak off (though I usually soak just about everything): The other half is a mix of (mint/uncanceled) forgeries, reprints and printers waste. Though I primarily collect used only, items as below make excellent reference for my 'worldwide forgeries collection' (something I'm building up along my main collection of worldwide postage stamps): Some more items can be seen on my blog, where I wrote a somewhat lengthy summary of stamps of Central Lithuania few years back - www.stampcollectingblog.com/srodkowa-litwa-stamps-of-central-lithunia.php -k-
|
|
rod222
Member
Posts: 9,866
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
|
Post by rod222 on Dec 1, 2013 10:39:01 GMT
Nice one scb! My album holes are obvious. Corrigenda : The 2 Markka stamps shown on page 2 are misplaced, being semi-postals. Marching owards..... (The errors of Semi Postal stamps shown included on page 2, has been rectified) Page 4 Page 5
|
|
rod222
Member
Posts: 9,866
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
|
Post by rod222 on Dec 1, 2013 10:54:22 GMT
BC scribbled...."Wilno (now Vilnius) 1920 cancel. Not sure if it is Jan 1 or Dec 12."
Neither. I have it as 1st December.
|
|
rod222
Member
Posts: 9,866
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
|
Post by rod222 on Dec 1, 2013 20:46:33 GMT
The last two pages, which exhausts my collection. Kicking tyres around the internet, I'd suggest a full collection (without the 1919 overprints) of Central Lithuania, dodgy or otherwise, should be had for around $24 US.
|
|
BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
|
Post by BC on Dec 2, 2013 2:09:22 GMT
Oops Rod, I meant Dec 1 or January 12. Sometimes they switch the order.
|
|
rod222
Member
Posts: 9,866
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
|
Post by rod222 on Dec 2, 2013 7:56:27 GMT
I had not noticed they change over.
As the tilda (~) precedes the numeral 1, I assumed it was a day date. That wouldn't happen with a month, would it?
|
|
I.L.S.
Departed
Rest in Peace
I am in Clearfield, Pa. I love US Classic covers!
Posts: 2,113
|
Post by I.L.S. on Dec 16, 2013 7:59:13 GMT
May I a little to this? Plebiscite issues of Central Lithuania This a complete set of the plebiscite issues for Upper Silesia. Below is the 1921 semi-postal set, overprinted to raise money to support the Polish campaign during the Upper Silesia plebiscite.
A plebiscite is defined as "a vote by which the people of an entire country or district express an opinion for or against a proposal, especially on a choice of government or ruler." "After World War I, a number of disputed areas were placed under temporary League of Nations administration, pending plebiscites to determine which nation the populace wished to join. Special issues note the upcoming vote in several of these areas." Prior to WWI, multi-national and multi-ethnic empires comprised much of Europe. These included the Russian, German, Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman empires. At the end of the war, these empires were mostly liquidated along national lines. During WWI, United States President Woodrow Wilson called for "peace without victory" at the conclusion of the war. He elaborated this idea in his "Fourteen Points" speech to Congress in 1918. Points V through XIII dealt with the issue of "national self-determination." By this, Wilson meant that the people of each nation should be able to determine how and by whom they would be governed. At the Paris Peace Conference, Wilson's idea of national self-determination was honored as much in the breech as in the observance. Generally speaking, it was much easier to apply the principle to the territories of countries that were on the losing side than to the winners. In some areas of the fallen empires where the population was homogeneous or where only small minorities of other populations existed, drawing new national boundaries was fairly easy. Many areas of the old empires had mixed populations of relatively equally proportions. Following the establishment of the League of Nations, it was decided to hold plebiscites in some of these areas with mixed populations, to allow the people who lived there to determine which country the territory would belong to. Four of the six territories discussed here were placed under control of the Inter-Allied Control Commission pending the outcome of the plebiscite sponsored by the League of Nations, and postage stamps were issued for them. On the list of plebiscites is Eastern Silesia. Formerly a part of Austria, the territory had a mixed German, Polish and Czech population of more than 680,000. Both Czechs and Poles lived in parts of Eastern Silesia, and they were unable to reach agreement on where the border should be drawn. The Allies were asked to arbitrate, but they were unable to arrive at a solution acceptable to all parties, so on Sept. 27, 1919, a plebiscite was called. The plebiscite was to be held under the auspices of the Allied Powers rather than the League of Nations and its IACC. Eastern Silesia is unique in that the proposed plebiscite was not under IACC auspices, and, while plebiscite stamps for the region were issued by both the Czechoslovakian and Polish governments, the plebiscite was never held. A Polish 1-korona Agriculture stamp overprinted "S. O. 1920," Moving right along to the good bit- ** The plebiscite, held March 20, 1921, was indecisive. The vote was nearly equally divided between Poland and Germany, so the Inter-Allied Control Commission divided the territory between the two countries based on the results of the plebiscite.If you wish to read more please see Linn's article on Central Lituania - www.linns.com/howto/refresher/plebiscites_20030526/refreshercourse.aspx
|
|
BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
|
Post by BC on Dec 21, 2013 3:57:57 GMT
|
|
rod222
Member
Posts: 9,866
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
|
Post by rod222 on Dec 21, 2013 4:04:38 GMT
"Here are my maps of Central Lithuania:" Exceptional BC, golly, you are a cartographic legend. We have such talent abouard TSF. Duly pilfered (with acknowledgement) for my Album
|
|
BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
|
Post by BC on Dec 21, 2013 15:05:56 GMT
Pilferation approved Rod
|
|
stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
|
Post by stainlessb on Mar 6, 2019 2:59:12 GMT
I came across these in an old stock book... i'm wondering if the miscut is genuine
|
|
khj
Member
Posts: 1,449
|
Post by khj on Mar 6, 2019 3:56:29 GMT
It is user-created. In general, you can't really prove a miscut on imperforate stamps unless you have something going across the pane gutter.
|
|
stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
|
Post by stainlessb on Mar 6, 2019 4:15:59 GMT
khj excuse me for asking/not knowing, but I'm not sure I understand...by user created, do you mean "end user" had a sheet of stamps and just cut them ...poorly? In the image I also question that the printing borders from one impression to the other are not close to parallel.in-line, but as this is a crude printing, perhaps the "plate" was hand cut/engraved"? I am also suspect, due to how much "whiter" the paper is on the inperf i found some perf and imperf lots for sale on HipStamp (not a high value stamp) but no indication as to date of issue in the few I found Thanks for your answer/insight
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 13:12:52 GMT
The Central Lithuania stamps were issued in 1920 during the Polish Occupation - Yours is SG2 min. value They are found equally perfed and imperf on different papers. It was just manually cut poorly.
|
|
khj
Member
Posts: 1,449
|
Post by khj on Mar 6, 2019 16:21:02 GMT
Yes, what I meant was someone was separating singles from a pane or larger multiple without regard to creating a well-centered stamp.
Nelson's reply sums it up. I will also add, that paper quality varied considerably, so some printings will be on "rougher paper" or slightly "whiter/cleaner/smoother" paper. Print quality varied over time with plate wear. On this typographed issue, there really wasn't a major effort to precisely align each stamp position. That is expected, given the paper/print quality.
On a side note, you do see positional alignment shifts in modern stamps. US rotary press coils are an example. Where the ends of the rolls meet, the stamps don't always line up perfectly in a line across the joint/gap (you will sometimes see an upward/downward shift). Normally, we only think in terms of the more popular joint line pairs. But you can find examples of a noticeable shift in a pair. This is also true of block tagging on horizontal coils (I actually collecting these tagging "jumps" in coil pairs).
|
|
renden
Member
Posts: 8,705
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
|
Post by renden on Jan 10, 2022 18:02:50 GMT
Found this one in a batch of Lithuania stamps. Absent in SCOTT, SCOTT Spec 2021 and Y&Tellier Appreciate identity of this Central Lithuania René
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,653
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Jan 10, 2022 18:13:52 GMT
René ( renden ), you must have missed it. It is Central Lithuania, Sc39, 5m red brown. Scott Design Type A12. That's taken from my 2017 Scott Classic Specialized.
Edit: But I have also noted from Morten's ( classicalstamps ) website that forgeries exist from this set, and the perfs on your stamp look a bit ragged. It should be a clean perf 14 to be genuine, I think.
|
|
renden
Member
Posts: 8,705
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
|
Post by renden on Jan 10, 2022 19:37:06 GMT
Thanks Chris Beryllium Guy - all this research was done in Lithuania and not Central Lithuania and now I am in the right place I do compare "perfs" and mine could well be a "forgery" (fake) René Thanks again Beryllium Guy (Chris) ! Now that I changed from Lithuania to Central Lithuania and checked my Inventory (never touched since 2017 !!) I did realize I had a better copy of Scott 39, MH-F with gum on the back - Am showing the 2 copies I have and BTW found many Central Lithuania in an old Junior Scott that belonged to my late dad and inventoried in 2017 !! René FORGERY: Better COPY with perfs 14
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,653
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Jan 10, 2022 19:48:00 GMT
Very nice, René ( renden ), I agree with your assessment. I think your first example is indeed a forgery, and the second one looks genuine. I found a previous post by Morten ( classicalstamps ) in another thread where he mentions that the forgeries are generally perf 11½, while the genuine ones are perf 14 or 13¾, and that the perf measurements are one of the simplest ways to tell the forgeries from the genuine ones. By the way, I also moved this thread to the Central Lithuania country board, which is separate from Lithuania, just as it is in the catalogues.
|
|