Jen B
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Post by Jen B on Feb 9, 2014 17:20:08 GMT
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rod222
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Posts: 9,895
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Feb 9, 2014 21:41:08 GMT
I do like the way you research, your stuff. Thumbs up. I've used that research for my Chinese scissored bits. Thanks. I know very little about China, but it looks like you have both a "vernacular" CDS in Chinese and English Not sure what the English CDS' indicate, but possibly overseas destination (probably from Shanghai)
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tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,265
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Feb 10, 2014 15:34:16 GMT
I pulled these cutouts and the torn cut square from my Scott International yesterday -- they appear to be a mix of stationary, postal cards and letter sheets.
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Ryan
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,720
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Feb 13, 2014 3:50:54 GMT
Here's another cutout (thin paper and written on the back of it as though it came from an aerogram, but the postage rate seems too low for that), well and truly mutilated by an exuberant scissors operator. South African stamps of that era alternated between English and Afrikaans inscriptions - I wonder if the postal stationery also alternated the inscriptions, or if they were in English only, as with this copy. Or did the aerogram actually contain two indicia, a 3d in English and a 3d in Afrikaans? Ryan
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Feb 13, 2014 4:37:52 GMT
Here's another cutout (thin paper and written on the back of it as though it came from an aerogram, but the postage rate seems too low for that), well and truly mutilated by an exuberant scissors operator. South African stamps of that era alternated between English and Afrikaans inscriptions - I wonder if the postal stationery also alternated the inscriptions, or if they were in English only, as with this copy. Or did the aerogram actually contain two indicia, a 3d in English and a 3d in Afrikaans? Ryan Possibly Air letter Ryan, two thruppeny stamps piggybacked, possibly bi lingual. Note : for Etiquette collectors, includes the monogram for SA Airways
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Feb 13, 2014 4:46:31 GMT
Hmmm... still would wager on the side of the "Aerogramme" The paper looks different from the Air Letter seen here for SWA
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Ryan
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,720
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Feb 13, 2014 4:54:51 GMT
Aha, excellent - paired bilingual indicia, I thought that might be the solution.
Ryan
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Ryan
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,720
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Feb 15, 2014 3:38:50 GMT
Another aerogram cutout from a country that doesn't show up too often with postal stationery in my piles of stuff - Angola. Ryan
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lokos
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Ontario, Canada
Posts: 167
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Post by lokos on Apr 5, 2014 13:16:21 GMT
We all seem to accumulate at least some of these in our purchases and tuck them away but I was wondering if we have any members that are actively collecting cut squares? This series from Hawaii I think is about the most attractive to be found in the US catalog. Issue date 1884 Hawaii #U3... quantity issued 18,000... cut square cv$25.00, Entire used cv$150.00Hawaii #U5...quantity issued 3,500 plus...cut square cv$37.50, Entire used cv$150.00
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lokos
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Ontario, Canada
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Post by lokos on Apr 6, 2014 12:38:53 GMT
Columbus and Liberty or Columbian Exposition issue #U348 to #U351 There were four diff. dies used for this set and not all dies were used for each value. The top row of #U348 (1c blue) shows examples of 3 out of 4 of the dies. #U348 1c deep blue cv.$1.25 #U349 2c violet cv.$0.50 #U350 5c chocolate cv.$7.50 #U351 10c slate brown cv.$30.00
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lokos
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Ontario, Canada
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Post by lokos on Apr 6, 2014 12:41:31 GMT
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Apr 6, 2014 15:45:35 GMT
Very nice cut squares Lokos, would look nice mounted on pages.
Do we know what the 10c slate brown postage rate covered at all? Registration?
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lokos
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Ontario, Canada
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Post by lokos on Apr 6, 2014 16:39:17 GMT
I'm not 100% positive of this but I believe in 1893 the 10c rate would cover both a domestic registered letter with the postage being 2c and the registry fee being 8c but also it would cover the cost of a international letter of more than a 1/2oz but not more than 1oz or 30gr with the rater being 5c per 1/2oz or 15gr. I think?
Rick
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rogo
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Post by rogo on Apr 7, 2014 1:10:31 GMT
Outstanding Rick.......
The Columbians were the 1st U.S. commemorative stamps..... issued for the Columbian Exposition 1893. Sixteen different stamps and 4 PSE's......I believe many people forget about the PSE's when thinking Columbian Issues.
Denominations may not have had any intended use......
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rod222
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Posts: 9,895
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Apr 7, 2014 4:03:52 GMT
Interesting, I couldn't find any suitable rates when I went scouring my database.
I perhaps recall the high value Colombian had no intended use either, and received some bad press at the time? My philatelic second sense suggests that the 10c must have had some target, Intercontinental perhaps, CV of $30 suggests they were not in abundance.
My hazy memory also tends towards this expo as the place where they had a working cover printing machine at the stall.
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I.L.S.
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I am in Clearfield, Pa. I love US Classic covers!
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Post by I.L.S. on Apr 7, 2014 10:48:01 GMT
Outstanding Rick.......
The Columbians were the 1st U.S. commemorative stamps..... issued for the Columbian Exposition 1893. Sixteen different stamps and 4 PSE's......I believe many people forget about the PSE's when thinking Columbian Issues.
Denominations may not have had any intended use......
Interesting! You know this design (the Columbian Postal Stationery) is one of a few I don't yet have. It's odd too because I am a collector of the Expositions and esoterica.
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rogo
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Post by rogo on Apr 8, 2014 0:06:13 GMT
Interesting, I couldn't find any suitable rates when I went scouring my database. I perhaps recall the high value Colombian had no intended use either, and received some bad press at the time? My philatelic second sense suggests that the 10c must have had some target, Intercontinental perhaps, CV of $30 suggests they were not in abundance. My hazy memory also tends towards this expo as the place where they had a working cover printing machine at the stall. Maybe the 10c was intended for airmail... balloons were expensive back then.....
I believe the whole set was intended as strictly philatelic. Just a way to raise money for the exposition.
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I.L.S.
Departed
Rest in Peace
I am in Clearfield, Pa. I love US Classic covers!
Posts: 2,113
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Post by I.L.S. on Apr 8, 2014 10:30:17 GMT
Rogo that is correct about the columbian high denominations having paid no intended rate but there was also the 5¢ (& 10¢ <-?) denomination 1851-56 also had no intended postal rate that it paid either. I quote from the USPCS website below: www.uspcs.org/the-1851-1860-issue/1856-5c-issue/
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lokos
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Ontario, Canada
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Post by lokos on Apr 8, 2014 12:48:59 GMT
I'm not 100% positive of this but I believe in 1893 the 10c rate would cover both a domestic registered letter with the postage being 2c and the registry fee being 8c but also it would cover the cost of a international letter of more than a 1/2oz but not more than 1oz or 30gr with the rater being 5c per 1/2oz or 15gr. I think? Rick Not sure if this is the appropriate place for asking this or not as I didn't want to hijack Rod's thread..... I enjoy learning more about postal history and such things as the in's and out's like postal rates but I am very much still a beginner and I'm hoping you guys can maybe straighten me out a bit, preferably with explanations geared towards a novice. As Rod's original question was about what rate the 10c Columbian stationery paid I thought, through putting together different bits and pieces, I had figured out the then current rates that might have applied but the consensus so far is that the 10c didn't have an actual rate it was intended for. I was hoping maybe someone could possibly elaborate a bit. Excellent link for the USPCS 1850-1860 issues ILS. Apparently I already had that site bookmarked but I don't remember it. Will definitely be spending some time there. Couldn't find any references specifically for the postal stationery but hunting around on that same USPCS site ILS provided I found references to the 10c Columbian stamp, same year of issue and same denomination so I figured the information should apply to the envelopes as well. I copied a few points below that I found on their site. - In 1892 when the Columbian series was being planned the 10c would have paid the registry fee. -In 1893 when the Columbians were issued the 10c paid the new 8c registry fee plus the 2c domestic postage. Most common domestic use was payment of the registry fee and single rate postage. - 10c Columbian was useful in making up higher rates - 10c Columbian paid double the 5c per 1/2oz UPU rate ( IMHO, nowadays our standard rate starts at 1oz, probably a common weight then as well for those conducting business) - 10c paid the special international rate of 10c per 1/2oz supplementary mail rate which was a special dockside service to New York merchants and others who wished to be able to mail letters to Europe right up to the last few minutes before the ship sailed. - South Africa or more specifically Cape Colony did not join the UPU until January 1895. The non-UPU rate to Cape Colony was 10c per 1/2oz. Only my opinion but I believe that in that time period Registered mail, unlike today, was common place and was of necessity. With the majority of business dealings being done through the mail, (no phones and no email and no PayPal), and the potential delays being counted in months rather than days if excuses were... I didn't get your order, or your invoice or your payment, those having business dealings would want to use the most secure and closest thing to a guarantee of delivery they could. With the actual sending of hard currency through the mail also being common place registered mail played a big part in that as well. Big difference between now and then as to how registered mail was handled. I would compare it to using an armored car for delivery now. Not that they had armored cars but were required to handle registered mail with just as much seriousness. The post office then, for lack of a better word, had their own police force and if you screwed with the delivery of the mail they just shot you. As an after thought and just speculation but I could see business owners attempting to be as frugal as possible. The amount of counter measures that have been used over the years to stop employee theft of postage and the like leads me to believe a penny here or a penny there was a big thing and if a business owner made use of registered mail on regular basis, rather than footing the cost of buying postage and envelopes separate, buying pre-stamped envelopes for the same cost as just a stamp alone I could see them making use of that savings. Possibly also a savings from employees stealing as I think it would be harder to sneak out some #10 envelopes rather than some stamps also more chance of loss with a block of 10 or 20 stamps sitting in a drawer or on the counter, month in month out, getting damaged to the point of being non-usable rather than a stack of 10 or 20 envelopes. I'd really be interested in anyone's opinion, Rick
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Apr 8, 2014 14:30:17 GMT
Nice enjoyable read and argument Rick, Thanks. I find it very interesting.
I also think, we at "The Stamp Forum" should start a dedicated thread on "Worldwide Postage Rates" Links, and snippets whenever we come across them. It is one part of philately that is so difficult, one rarely sees dedicated information.
In Australia "Commercial Mail" (as against "philatelic mail") covers, bearing correct stamps for rate, are highly sought after, for exhibits etc and command good prices. The ability to read these covers can be a great source of revenue for the experienced collector.
The catch phrase is "In period use"
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Apr 8, 2014 14:38:30 GMT
Here is an example Rick, This Stamp off cover CV $80 The stamp on cover realised at Auction 2006 $506 Here is the author's commentary, Mr. Rod Perry Australian Stamp News 2006
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Ryan
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,720
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Apr 24, 2014 8:28:53 GMT
Here's an aerogram cutout from Nigeria, found in tonight's sorting. Ryan
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Ryan
Member
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,720
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Jun 22, 2014 14:43:30 GMT
It's been a while since I had fired up the old scanner, and in the meantime I had been setting aside interesting items to be scanned later for addition to some of my favourite threads. A collection of Canadian stamps contained quite a few cutouts / rip-outs from postal stationery - up here, they're usually pre-stamped envelopes or post cards. Aerograms aren't nearly as common here, and I very seldom see used cutouts in collections. Here are a few of the different series I came across. The 8 cent floral design is from a domestic letter sheet and is pretty much as uncommon as aerograms, at least I have never seen them other than in collections of unused entire items. Ryan
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Ryan
Member
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,720
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Jun 22, 2014 14:54:05 GMT
Another small collection I recently sorted through was from India. It also contained a number of cutouts from envelopes and aerograms. Here's a selection of them - note that there's a difference in the two with the green airplane, one has faux perforations outlined and the other does not. Ryan
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Ryan
Member
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,720
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Jun 22, 2014 14:56:51 GMT
And one last collection was made up of stamps from Ecuador. It also gave me a few postal stationery cutouts. I don't think I've ever seen any Ecuadorian stationery before. Ryan
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rod222
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Posts: 9,895
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jun 22, 2014 22:02:21 GMT
Another small collection I recently sorted through was from India. It also contained a number of cutouts from envelopes and aerograms. Here's a selection of them - note that there's a difference in the two with the green airplane, one has faux perforations outlined and the other does not. Ryan Lovely stuff Ryan. Good to see your scanner up and about. Not seen the aerogramme without faux perfs before. Lovely India Queen Victoria shard. Good example of Allahabad Postmark (Type 19 1880) Is that a perfect SON (Socked On the Nose) ?
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Ryan
Member
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,720
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Jun 24, 2014 11:01:45 GMT
Here are a few more stationery cutouts recently found from countries I don't see too often. As with Ecuador, I seldom see any postal stationery from Venezuela, and I'm sure I've never come across anything from Niger before. The third example is something I think is from Hyderabad - "Post Stamp" is something often seen on their issues, and the star & crescent also feature on some of their stamps. Ryan
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rod222
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Posts: 9,895
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jun 24, 2014 13:40:20 GMT
Here are a few more stationery cutouts recently found from countries I don't see too often. As with Ecuador, I seldom see any postal stationery from Venezuela, and I'm sure I've never come across anything from Niger before.The third example is something I think is from Hyderabad - "Post Stamp" is something often seen on their issues, and the star & crescent also feature on some of their stamps. Ryan Hyderabad Impressive detective work there, Ryan I think you are correct Hyderabad, apart from 1 exception, never showed the state name on her stamps. ...and that stamp is an "error" stamp, the soldier returning home, still has his rifle.
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Ryan
Member
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,720
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Jul 4, 2014 8:26:15 GMT
We've had some good posts here lately on Irish stamps, so here's something I came across the other day. This is a postal card cutout - the paper is thick card stock and there is writing on the back side. The perforations on one side make me wonder if it was a message reply card of some sort. I don't see Irish postal stationery cutouts very often, come to think of it. Ryan
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rod222
Member
Posts: 9,895
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jul 4, 2014 8:38:16 GMT
We've had some good posts here lately on Irish stamps, so here's something I came across the other day. This is a postal card cutout - the paper is thick card stock and there is writing on the back side. The perforations on one side make me wonder if it was a message reply card of some sort. I don't see Irish postal stationery cutouts very often, come to think of it. Ryan That would be a "Lettercard" Ryan. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LettercardYour Slogan Postmark reads..... AVAIL OF ANNUAL MASS X RAY
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