firstfrog2013
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What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Dec 1, 2014 23:23:38 GMT
How do I determine with confidence #40 from #45 ?? I tried to sort by color but man some of the shades are SO close. Really trying to get things right (finally) Anyone feel up to explaining it?? I looked in my small queens book but it only states colors and not much matches my color charts.
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firstfrog2013
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What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Jan 28, 2015 19:17:26 GMT
I purchased a color chart for this issue and here's the pay off.This little gem was in the lateset stockbook I won.It is a #40 dark magenta perf 11 1/2 by 12.with this obvious re-enrty.sorry for poor quailty scan I'm still getting used to my toy.Look at top of N and notice the little curly Q thing extending down through into top of N
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firstfrog2013
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What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Jan 28, 2015 19:20:03 GMT
I make it's CV$ between $175-$300.Out of $35 purchase.
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cjd
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Post by cjd on Jan 28, 2015 20:15:23 GMT
I must say I have to squint to figure out exactly what I'm looking at, but congratulations.
Can I ask what color chart you went with?
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firstfrog2013
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What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Jan 28, 2015 20:35:20 GMT
Colors by Don Bowen as featured on back cover of R,Maresch &sons auction catalouge
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firstfrog2013
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What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Jan 28, 2015 20:41:51 GMT
Sorry about scan going to try again stand by.
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firstfrog2013
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Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Jan 28, 2015 20:48:30 GMT
second attempt
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firstfrog2013
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Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Jan 28, 2015 20:55:18 GMT
colors from scanner are not accurate but the chart is really good for what it is.On back are perfs in kiusalas and scott and gibbons numbers
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cjd
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Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on Jan 29, 2015 1:15:27 GMT
Thanks.
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firstfrog2013
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Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Apr 10, 2015 12:47:54 GMT
The ten cent issues are my latest kick.Especially #40 as this one CV$ vf is $100 used not an easy undertaking for a study group.I have found quite a few with plate/printing flaws.The down side is going to be the need to expand the page for them.
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Post by jimjung on May 17, 2015 13:37:24 GMT
The 10c SQ is quite a nice stamp. Perfs on 40 can be 11 1/2 x 12. Perfs on 45 are always 12 x 12. I find this one way but the shade is the best and easiest. The shade of the 45 is usually a brown red or pastel shade to it. I find that 40 has a purple or pinkish component to its shade. After saying that, 45b is a pink shade. This one shade will be perf 12. Here is a 45v - the pitted right "0" variety.
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Post by jimjung on May 18, 2015 13:47:00 GMT
Here is the Scott 40e. The first three stamps on the Maresch Shade Color Chart are 40e. This is the lightest of the 3 shades. I also have the Pale Milky Pink which is very light but has a nice pink tint to it.
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Post by jimjung on May 23, 2015 16:36:43 GMT
Here is a copy of the other shade of Scott 40e - Pale Milky Pink. This shade has a distinct pink tint to it where the other one is pale and almost colorless.
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Post by jimjung on May 23, 2015 16:40:16 GMT
Here are some of the other common Scott 40 shades. Hopefully, I've got them right. Note that these shades have color but all still seem to be a little dull and not very bright. Scott 40a - Magenta in Perf 12 Scott 40b Deep Lilac Rose Perf 12 (Nice misperf at right margin) Scott 40i - Light Rose Lilac Perf 11 1/2 x 12 (bit of the red London or Liverpool postmark at bottom right)
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Post by jimjung on May 23, 2015 16:55:03 GMT
The Scott 45 10c Small Queens are all Perf 12. They have a stronger color to them and this is the key. Here are some common shades. I think you can see the difference in the color between the 40 shades and the 45 shades by looking at these examples. Scott 45 - Brown Red Scott 45a - Salmon (Dull Rose) Scott 45b - Pink (also has the Pitted "O" variety Scott 45v)
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Ryan
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What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on May 23, 2015 19:58:02 GMT
Here are some of the other common Scott 40 shades. Hopefully, I've got them right. Note that these shades have color but all still seem to be a little dull and not very bright. Scott 40a - Magenta in Perf 12 .... Scott 40b Deep Lilac Rose Perf 12 (Nice misperf at right margin) These two show a guide dot below the lower left value tablet. I assume this is one way of telling the difference between a #40 and a #45, with the same proviso as on the 3 cent Small Queens (guide dot on only 9 of the 10 columns in a sheet)? Ryan
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Post by jimjung on May 23, 2015 20:14:34 GMT
Ryan,
I can't be 100% sure that is true right now. Unitrade does not show Guide Dot info in their table for Small Queens under the 10c, only the 1c, 2c, 3c, 5c and 6c.
It may be true but I would like to ask someone to verify this.
I recently purchased "The postage stamps and postal history of Canada" by Winthrop Boggs but it is still in the mail. I'm hoping to be able to dig into the Small Queens a little more with this book.
I received one answer from a fellow collector:
"There was only one plate ever made for the ten cent, it was not reentered. The guide dots are there LL, they hug the design closely and slowly disappear probably due to plate wear and the use of lower quality paper."
What I hear from this statement is that the earlier 10c Printings such as the Scott 40 would have Guide Dots and the reason the later printings don't have them is because of plate wear. So the Guide Dot is not a guarantee for Scott 40 but just an indication that it is an early printing. No exact date as to when the Guide Dots disappeared but obviously before the Scott 45's were printed.
I may get more answers. If I do, I will post them here.
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Post by jimjung on May 24, 2015 15:27:35 GMT
firstfrog, Here is another Color Guide for the 10c you can use. This web page also has perf info and lots of samples. I dunno who put this together but it's been on the web for a long time as I use this for reference. I finally found the 10c page again and here it is. There is one page per Small Queen stamp. www.dglphilatelics.com/sq_10c.html
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Ryan
Moderator
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,749
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on May 24, 2015 15:40:53 GMT
I recently purchased "The postage stamps and postal history of Canada" by Winthrop Boggs but it is still in the mail. I'm hoping to be able to dig into the Small Queens a little more with this book. I received one answer from a fellow collector: " There was only one plate ever made for the ten cent, it was not reentered. The guide dots are there LL, they hug the design closely and slowly disappear probably due to plate wear and the use of lower quality paper."What I hear from this statement is that the earlier 10c Printings such as the Scott 40 would have Guide Dots and the reason the later printings don't have them is because of plate wear. So the Guide Dot is not a guarantee for Scott 40 but just an indication that it is an early printing. No exact date as to when the Guide Dots disappeared but obviously before the Scott 45's were printed. I have a Quarterman reprint of Boggs so I had a look. As you say, a single plate was made and was never re-entered. A strange thing - the position dots seen on your copies of #40a and the right margin misperf of #40b are very prominent, and the various shades of #45 still have lots of depth remaining in the engraving. It seems unusual that the dot would have disappeared without appearing to affect the remainder of the engraving. Maybe there's a variety of depth in the guide dots - that appears to be the case in your copy of #40b, the dot on the left isn't as prominent as that on the right. Perhaps you just have a couple of stamps with abnormally strong guide dots? Ryan
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firstfrog2013
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Post by firstfrog2013 on May 26, 2015 1:52:43 GMT
jimjung, I already had that site in my bookmarks.Not sure what to make of statement "plate wasn't re-entered"I have found re-entries on a few #40's already maybe the plates weren't re-entered but printings were still crude and impressions were obviously rocked now and then.Just confusing type statement not untrue.Oh PLEASE just call me Frog, my mom does.Down time is short right now,when I get a few rain days I'll play with the microscope a bit and try to get clear scans to show you what I've found.Thanks for nice scans of those #40's and #45's.Re-enforces what I've found with those colors.
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Post by jimjung on May 26, 2015 23:03:51 GMT
jimjung, I already had that site in my bookmarks.Not sure what to make of statement "plate wasn't re-entered"I have found re-entries on a few #40's already maybe the plates weren't re-entered but printings were still crude and impressions were obviously rocked now and then.Just confusing type statement not untrue.Oh PLEASE just call me Frog, my mom does.Down time is short right now,when I get a few rain days I'll play with the microscope a bit and try to get clear scans to show you what I've found.Thanks for nice scans of those #40's and #45's.Re-enforces what I've found with those colors. Frog, I think what is meant by " the plate wasn't re-entered" means that there wasn't a general repair made on the plate. For the repair, the steel transfer roll would have been used to sharpen the images on the plate where they have been worn down. This would create a 2nd State of the plate. That doesn't mean you won't find any re-entries on 10c Small Queens. Any re-entries from the 1st State would still be there. And indeed, the listed plate varieties appear on both Scott 40 and Scott 45.
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firstfrog2013
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What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on May 27, 2015 3:18:53 GMT
Jimjung,that's what I understood it as too.I just wanted others to be clear there are indeed re-entries on the issue that can command a bit better than normal market.Myself I just love looking for the abnormal anyway.
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Post by jimjung on May 27, 2015 16:59:23 GMT
Frog, I also like to collect the varieties and have found alot of interesting errors over the years. I have a very large collection of 3c Small Queens, all with some type of odd error. I could post some of them, if you are interested.
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firstfrog2013
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Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on May 27, 2015 18:52:43 GMT
jimjung if you have the time I for one would love to see your findings both on small queens and first cent issues.I do know what you mean about slowing down on large queens,I too have quite a few and hate re-doing pages again and again.My early issues evolve into one stamp per page and sometimes it really just ain't enough even then.
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Post by jimjung on May 28, 2015 14:45:19 GMT
There are only a few Large Queen and First Cents Issue plate varieties left for me to get. I have most of them. I contributed a few of the tougher ones to this new website hosted by a member of our club. flyspecker.com/index.htmlI only collected Pence, Cents and Large Queens for the longest time and only expanded into Small Queens over the last five years. Now I always had a collection of Canada Issues with different varieties or VF Quality which I added to or improved. I also collect these varieties on cover and have a Postal History Collection. I will try to post some of these but if you have specific ones you'd like to see, please let me know. You might see all of the listed varieties but here are a few 3c SQ's that you may never see anywhere else: Flaw in N of CENTS The Masked Queen Engraver's Slip lower right String of Pearls (lower margin)
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Ryan
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Posts: 2,749
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on May 28, 2015 23:52:59 GMT
You might see all of the listed varieties but here are a few 3c SQ's that you may never see anywhere else: .... The Masked Queen Oof, that's quite the black eye she has there ... Ryan
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Post by jimbooregon on Jul 23, 2015 13:00:44 GMT
Jim jung....nice scans....interesting
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Post by jimbooregon on Jul 24, 2015 20:34:55 GMT
First frog I really like your page laying out the color differences...
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firstfrog2013
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What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Oct 17, 2015 23:20:14 GMT
Another example of under inking ??
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firstfrog2013
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What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Oct 17, 2015 23:22:36 GMT
Also visible in bottom
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