BC
Departed
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Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 7, 2016 19:30:56 GMT
Timeline:1. Czechoslovakia (CSR) and Poland declared their independence after the fall of the Austro-Hungarian Empire in 1918. 2. CSR occupied and claimed most of Eastern Silesia and all of Spis and Orava in 1918. CSR and Poland went to war over Eastern Silesia and by 1920 each occupied roughly half the area. CSR controls all of Spis and Orava. 3. The Conference of Ambassadors is formed by the Allied Powers in January 1920, to enforce peace treaties and to mediate various territorial disputes among European states. 4. A plebiscite was planned to be held in late 1920 or early 1921 for Eastern Silesia, Spis and Orava, to allow the inhabitants to determine whether they would become part of CSR or Poland. 5. S.O. 1920 overprinted stamps put into use in the areas on February 13, 1920. CSR overprinted stamps were used in the Czech held areas of Eastern Silesia (western half), and Polish overprinted stamps were used in the Polish held areas (eastern half). 6. It appears CSR S.O. 1920 stamps were used in all of Spis and Orava, but Polish overprints are known used in late July 1920. 7. On July 28, 1920 The Conference of Ambassadors announces a negotiated settlement of the boundary dispute and the plebiscite is cancelled. The CSR and Polish controlled areas of Eastern Silesia at the time become final, while CSR gives up the northern portions of Spis and Orava to Poland. This took effect on August 10, 1920. There are more perforation varieties on this issue, but most are way beyond my budget. None of them are listed in Scott. Regardless I will post a table when it is finished.
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tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,382
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Feb 7, 2016 23:16:55 GMT
The January/February 2001 edition of The Czechoslovak Specialist contains an article by Josef Tekel that pertains to this area (see Formation of the Borders of Slovakia and Poland (1918-1924) beginning on page 14). After reading Tekel's narrative, I'm wondering if "Eastern Silesia and/or Spis and Orava" might be a better title for the board.
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BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 8, 2016 0:48:15 GMT
I am not sure the best wording Steve, but as long as all territories are mentioned. Spis and Orava were never even in Silesia. In the Austro-Hungarian Empire they were part of Hungary, and now Slovakia and Poland. Thanks for the Czechoslovak Philatelist link. I also found some good information in Czechout the journal of the British Czechoslovak group.
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rod222
Member
Posts: 10,920
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Feb 8, 2016 0:53:19 GMT
I am not sure the best wording Steve, but as long as all territories are mentioned. Spis and Orava were never even in Silesia. In the Austro-Hungarian Empire they were part of Hungary, and now Slovakia and Poland. Thanks for the Czechoslovak Philatelist link. I also found some good information in Czechout the journal of the British Czechoslovak group. I think the current thread title is fine. (Eastern Silesia will be included in any Forum Search) Opinion: The name used in the forum, should mirror Gibbons or Scott catalogues, New collectors who find and "SO" on a stamp, will generally be advised by all and sundry as "Eastern Silesia" Correctness can be advised within the thread. BTW: Top post Brian, your map and preamble makes sense of a cloudy area for me.
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BC
Departed
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Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 8, 2016 2:05:41 GMT
Here is where the territories were in the old empire:
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BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 12, 2016 17:54:55 GMT
I found these Hungarian maps of Spis and Orava on the internet. The two areas were under control of the Kingdom of Hungary in the Austro-Hungarian Empire until 1918. Now to find some Hungarian stamps with cancellations in the area... Orava
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BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 12, 2016 17:55:40 GMT
Spis
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BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 13, 2016 3:46:56 GMT
Eastern Silesia, Spis and Orava, Postage Due Stamps, 1920
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BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 13, 2016 3:56:00 GMT
Eastern Silesia J1a, black overprint.
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ausbrasilien
Member
Inactive
Posts: 103
What I collect: German Area
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Post by ausbrasilien on Oct 21, 2020 19:41:43 GMT
Hi folks! Can someone answer a question that bugs me? I did not have Silesia in my collection because they were not german issued stamps, however, I thought, Silesia used to be a German territory before the Great War, so, I have included some this area in my collection. However, I later realized that it might have been part of Austro-Hungarian Empire and not German Empire before the war. Can anyone help me with this doubt? Thanksin advance!
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renden
Member
Posts: 9,143
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Oct 21, 2020 21:34:15 GMT
ausbrasilien history by wikipedia: After World War I, the easternmost part of Upper Silesia was granted to Poland by the Entente Powers after insurrections by Poles and the Upper Silesian plebiscite. The remaining former Austrian parts of Silesia were partitioned to Czechoslovakia, forming part of Czechoslovakia's Sudetenland region, and are today part of the Czech Republic. In 1945, after World War II, most of Silesia was transferred to Polish jurisdiction by the Potsdam Agreement between the victorious Allies and became part of Poland, whose Communist government expelled most of Silesia's population. The small Lusatian strip west of the Oder–Neisse line, which had belonged to Silesia since 1815, remained in Germany. I have some..(4 actually of Eastern S)..very nice to collect - Enjoy !! René
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ausbrasilien
Member
Inactive
Posts: 103
What I collect: German Area
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Post by ausbrasilien on Oct 23, 2020 0:56:19 GMT
Thank you for the explanation, René! So, these stamps refer to the former Austro-Hungarian part of Silesia, right? I have some of the Uppersilesia Plebiscits (Abistimungen) because they appear in the Specialized Michel German Area Catalogue. Recently I've got a couple of blue East Silesia stamps and added to collection. can't discover if they refer to former German or former Austro-Hungarian Silesia...(As they do not appear in Michel Germany). However, they do not show the stamps issued in former German territory by foreign issuers (if it is not occupation). I have the Belgian stamps with the surchage Euppen & Malmédy for example. Also the Germania ones surcharged by the Polish provisional government.
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ausbrasilien
Member
Inactive
Posts: 103
What I collect: German Area
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Post by ausbrasilien on Oct 24, 2020 17:22:49 GMT
I have just posted this research in the Upper Silesia tread, and thought you might find it interesting too:
I found some useful information on my research of today. Border changes throughout history Silesia does not have clear natural boundaries hence the fluctuations of the region throughout history with boundary changes around the peripheries. It is a region originally known to have been populated by multiple ethnic groups including Germanic tribes in the 1st century and clans of Slavonic background in the 6th century. It seems, despite its aspirations, it never managed to found its own state and be a truly independent political entity with the usual national trappings of a logo of some sort such as a flag, coat-of-arms, national anthem, etc. Its culture has been influenced by various ethnic and national groups. It might best be described as a borderland between western and eastern Europe. Its location has resulted in a complicated and tumultuous history that resembles series of continuous wars and take-overs by opportunist surrounding dynasties. It has experienced radical border changes and national affiliations over its history with very little independent political history. It has been calved up and tossed around between hereditary noble houses (monarchies, principalities, duchies, etc), and later, by modern nation states. Historically, it has been a battleground because of its geographical location between Germanic and Slavic people, its considerable coal deposits, and the struggle between Catholicism and Protestantism.
Silesia was seized by the King of Prussia in 1740 and retained after several more wars with Austria. In 1806, Napoleon's army under the command of his brother advanced into Silesia. Breslau (Wroclaw), and Schweidnitz (Swidnica) surrendered without fighting. Others in Silesia held out for varying amounts of time. During the period Napoleon's forces occupied Silesia; i.e., until 1815, it remained the territory of Prussia; however, the French continued their occupation and remained in administrative control, making regular collection of reparations, plundering and mistreating the Silesian population and making themselves very unpopular.In the twentieth century, rapid industrialisation within Silesia resulted in it once more being the object of serious conflicts involving Germany, Poland and Czechoslovakia.
Geographically, Silesia, is a region that extends over an area of approximately 380 x 120 kilometres in a north-westerly - south-westerly orientation along the fertile valley of the upper and middle Oder River. It roughly coincides with the southern part of the Oder's drainage basin and its tributaries. On the south-west, it is bounded by the Sudeten mountains. In the south-east, the Silesian Uplands merge with the Beskids (series of mountain ranges). Silesia was divided historically into three parts:
• Lower Silesia (Niederschlesien), to the northwest, includes rolling lowland valley of Oder. It was primarily agricultural with potatoes, grain, and sugar beets grown. Wroclaw (Breslau) was the most important city in Lower Silesia
• Upper Silesia (Oberschlesien), to the southeast, was characterised by uplands and is a heavily industrialized area with extensive iron, coal, and other mineral deposits. Katowice (Kattowitz) was the most important city in Upper Silesia.
• Austrian Silesia, or Teschen, borders Upper Silesia on the south and was also a coal and iron-mining region
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paul1
Member
Posts: 1,207
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Post by paul1 on May 12, 2023 13:29:03 GMT
some help folks, please. I have at least one item with post mark showing ODRAU (German, apparently) for what is now a Moravian - Silesian (Czech possibly) area called Odry. Do I post here - the currency seems to be Kreuzer. For us Brits. these historic Austro-Hungarian Empire remnants are a nightmare to understand. My own fault really - I have a habit of removing stamps from old albums and forgetting the name of the country at the top of the page. Picture attached. The stamp is in fact more lemony yellow than the picture shows (orange lemon) - just can't seem to get the actual colour to show.
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,590
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on May 12, 2023 13:50:53 GMT
paul1I believe this is Austria Sc 27,coarse print issued in 1867.Postmarked at Odrau,now Odry in Moravia,Czech Republic. Anglobob
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paul1
Member
Posts: 1,207
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Post by paul1 on May 12, 2023 14:44:32 GMT
Hi anglobob - very big thanks for the help - I'll delete here and re-post in Austria.
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Hugh
Member
Posts: 654
What I collect: Worldwide Occupation Stamps and Postal History; and, anything that looks interesting.
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Post by Hugh on Aug 23, 2024 2:37:08 GMT
A very interesting thread. I have many (not all) of the basic SO 1920 overprints including the SO 1920 newspaper stamps and the express stamps. I'm now motivated to finish the accumulation I started. In looking around the internet, I see that the Paris Peace Conference gave the following post offices (towns) in Eastern Silesia to Czechoslovakia: Bohumín Dolní Bludovice Dolni Domaslovice Dombrova Hoinik Horni Sucha Chotebuz Karvin 1 (Karviná) Komorni Lhotka Louky Pudlov Ropice Rychwald Stonava Bystrice ve SI. And, the following post offices were initially given to Poland but, on August 10, 1920 were transferred to Czechoslovakia. Bystrice ve Sl. Darkov Detmarovice Frýštát ve Slezsku Jablunkov ve Sl. Návsí Nawsie Nemecká Lutyne Petrovice u Frýštátu Skrecon Tešín 2 Trinec Trzyniec Vendryne Source: Lubor Kunc in czechphilatelist.tripod.com/snejdarek/ I pulled out some of the stamps in my collection that had readable cancels and tried to match them to the above list. I started with this one: Stamp: Eastern Silesia / Czechoslovakia Overprint 1halér, Dark Brown, perf 13 ¾ Overprint, in black SO / 1920Engraved by Alfons Mucha [Master of Art Nouveau] Issued in February 1920 MiNr 1A
The OVICE in the cancel matches Dolní Bludovice and Dolni Domaslovice. To the left of OVICE is a partial strike of something that initially looks like a J. I assumed it was, in fact a D … which would make the cancel DOLNI BLUDOVICE 1 I found several similar cancels in a very impressive 2018 exhibit on the History and Postmarks of the Post Office Dolni Bludovice by Petr Mazoch. Not the same, but similar. Source: www.exponet.info/exhibit.php?exhibit_ID=1395&lng=ENI plan to use the above town list to ID as many of the other cancels as possible. … Not my area, so comments and corrections are very welcome.
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rod222
Member
Posts: 10,920
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Aug 23, 2024 4:13:31 GMT
Note: Regarding Postmarks The Image shown by Brian (BC) in this thread was commented on by "Floortrader" (I cannot opine on the veracity of the information)
"I think the overprint is fine, but the postal cancel is a later date cancel done for collectors, the cancels used on actual postage would be valued higher than the catalogue price. The Scott catalogue calls these later date cancels, forgeries."
Scott Forged cancellations are found on #1-30
Sc#31-32 Excellent counterfeits of this overprint exist
Forged cancellations exist on all Postage dues
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