BC
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Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 19, 2016 3:47:22 GMT
I think we need a dedicated board for Cook Islands/Rarotonga/Aitutaki/Penrhyn. Has since been done, thank you. Up until 1888 Rarotonga was an independent Kingdom. It became a British Protectorate in 1888, along with the other islands in the northern and southern groups of the Cook Islands, due largely to fears that France might occupy the territory as it had Tahiti. Royalty continued to rule at a local level. Stamps inscribed "Cook Islands Federation" were issued then, despite the local government being anything but a unified federation. In 1901, Britain and New Zealand conspired to let New Zealand annex the group despite opposition from the country's traditional chiefs. As many of the islands were independent and locally ruled by kings and chiefs, they had little unity to control the events. To make a long story short, the chief of Tongareva (Penrhyn) in the northern group, and the king of Aitutaki and environs objected the use of the issued Cook Islands stamps bearing the Queen of Rarotonga, as she had no rule over those islands. As a result, in 1902-03, Cook Island stamps were replaced by New Zealand stamps overprinted for use in Rarotonga, Aitutaki and Penrhyn, followed by regular stamps inscribed with the same names. By 1932 stamps inscribed Cook islands were once again used throughout the territory and continue as of today. In 1972, the American advisor of the Cook Islands Philatelic Bureau, Finbar Kenny (Google him, quite a philatelic character!) convince the government to issue stamps again for for Aitutaki and Penrhyn. That has also continued for today. In 2012, Rarotonga began issuing stamps again, in conjunction with the regular Cook Islands stamps. Cook Islands 1919 Rarotonga Overprints:1p Scott #49 pair. The left stamp has the broken first "A" of Rarotonga and the damaged frame line above "Dominion".
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Feb 19, 2016 21:29:26 GMT
I think we need a dedicated board for Cook Islands/Rarotonga/Aitutaki/Penrhyn Not sure what you are getting at. Aitutaki exists. I am not a big fan of hiding regions under "Cook Islands" they are somewhat hidden, It needs a deep knowledge of Oceania to find them. tomiseksj I would suggest / request Admin / Steve move Rarotonga and Aitutaki Penrhyn to their own list under Oceania, It makes the library easier to find and navigate. Aitutaki thestampforum.boards.net/post/25491/threadBC Perhaps a short preamble in the first post of RAROTONGA can explain the relationship with the Cook Islands and why they print their own stamps?
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Feb 19, 2016 21:39:09 GMT
Registration Label Cook Islands Stamp Sc#135 1949 Aeroplane landing at Rarotonga airfield. Woven Palm Leaf fans, as instruments to frame the value tablets.
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BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 19, 2016 22:58:04 GMT
Rod, when I created this post, there was no Cook Islands forum under Oceania so I asked for it. The mods were very quick to add it . In my humble opinion, Aitutaki, Rarotonga and Penrhyn should be under the Cook Islands, just like Canadian Provinces are under Canada and German States under Germany. After all, all three areas are part of the Cook Islands and have no postal independence whatsoever. All stamps are valid anywhere in the Cook Islands, and are really issued for collectors. As said above, the modern are purely philatelic, but there is an interesting story why the classical overprints were done. I will have to dig up the information.
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BC
Departed
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Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 19, 2016 23:14:51 GMT
Rarotonga started issuing its own stamps again a few years ago. Snails:
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Feb 19, 2016 23:22:00 GMT
BC With respect, I understand your point of view, your coming from a purist direction. My argument: We need to present our "Library" to newcomers to the Forum. A new member is going to look up Oceania, look for Aitutaki, and see nothing Here is the "Album spines" as seen on our current forum If we present Aitutaki as a collection discipline, we can present the thread with a preamble to point out the particulars of the Issues. The new member sees Aitutaki in Scott under "A" We should present our Library in concordance. Aitutaki LOCATION — One of the larger Cook Islands, in the South Pacific Ocean northeast of New Zealand GOVT. — A dependency of New Zealand AREA — 7 sq. mi. POP. — 2,335 (1981) The Cook Islands were attached to New Zealand in 1901. Stamps of Cook Islands were used in 1892-1903 and 1932-72. Aitutaki acquired its own postal service in August 1972, though remaining part of Cook Islands. Over time, we are going to get new members, not seeing Aitutaki etc, and making new threads, making work for our Moderators, to move etc.
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rod222
Member
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Post by rod222 on Feb 19, 2016 23:41:22 GMT
I'd take issue with this statement. It has a negative component. A new collector reading this, is going to think his interest is somehow compromised. What you say may be true, but so is a myriad of other stamps in all countries.
I prefer to adopt a mindset of free and open collecting, if you want to collect stamps with the perfs cut off, that is OK too, We are all different, and our interests need respect and appreciation.
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BC
Departed
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Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 19, 2016 23:53:13 GMT
Really, it does not matter to me Rod , though all the modern stamps are also inscribed "Cook Islands". Aitutaki does not have it's own postal service, just it's own stamps. The philatelic Bureau is now in New York State: pcistamps.com/Cook_Islands.php
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Feb 20, 2016 11:11:49 GMT
Really, it does not matter to me Rod , though all the modern stamps are also inscribed "Cook Islands". Aitutaki does not have it's own postal service, just it's own stamps. The philatelic Bureau is now in New York State: pcistamps.com/Cook_Islands.php BC Cheers Brian, It really matters to me, I love to promote our early vision of a Library Style Issuing Authority Index. When a new collector, interested in anything "Oceania" arrives, and clicks on "Oceania" then all is revealed like Magic. Once we have his/her attention, on a specific, we can the broadcast the intricasies, as you suggest. I welcome your deep knowledge in this area. No other Forum does this, we have something special, it needs protecting and encouragement. We all need to fight, and pull together, against Forum entropy.
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bobby1948
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Sir Edmund Burke
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What I collect: WW to 1945; US mnh 1922-1990; US used and unused to 1922
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Post by bobby1948 on Feb 20, 2016 11:59:15 GMT
I am a relative newbie here, but not to collecting and online participation in stamp forums. I was active on many of the stamp "newsgroups" in the '90s and part of the ebay stamp community almost from the start. I am having a blast here, and largely due to the ease of navigating the forum. The "Library" concept is outstanding and it works! Kudos to the designer(s) and webmaster(s), I am a fan.
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Feb 20, 2016 12:38:58 GMT
I am a relative newbie here, but not to collecting and online participation in stamp forums. I was active on many of the stamp "newsgroups" in the '90s and part of the ebay stamp community almost from the start. I am having a blast here, and largely due to the ease of navigating the forum. The "Library" concept is outstanding and it works! Kudos to the designer(s) and webmaster(s), I am a fan. Wow! that brought a big smile. Firstly : Thanks to the Webmaster (Jack) for being flexible, from the outset. We wondered if we would ever survive. He took on suggestions from the friends of the forum, and I think it paid off. He also mastered being a Webmaster in what seemed like overnight. Then our behind the scenes Steve, whom does all the work, I believe. Then our hard working, and well grounded moderators. The exceptional observation, is the lack of ill feeling here, everyone seems to get on well, for 3 years that is extraordinary.
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BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 20, 2016 15:41:11 GMT
I like the style too. What I mean it does not matter to me if your method or my method is used, that's up to the mods. Either will work fine . That brings up another Rarotonga question. Scott puts the classic Rarotonga stamps directly in the Cook Islands listings (yet separates Aitutaki and Penrhyn). Who can tell me how the current Rarotonga stamps are listed - my most recent Scott is 2010 (the re-issue of Rarotonga stamps started in 2012).
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BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 20, 2016 15:45:44 GMT
Scott No. 48
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Admin
Administrator
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Post by Admin on Feb 20, 2016 16:23:24 GMT
I am a relative newbie here, but not to collecting and online participation in stamp forums. I was active on many of the stamp "newsgroups" in the '90s and part of the ebay stamp community almost from the start. I am having a blast here, and largely due to the ease of navigating the forum. The "Library" concept is outstanding and it works! Kudos to the designer(s) and webmaster(s), I am a fan. Wow! that brought a big smile. Firstly : Thanks to the Webmaster (Jack) for being flexible, from the outset. We wondered if we would ever survive. He took on suggestions from the friends of the forum, and I think it paid off. He also mastered being a Webmaster in what seemed like overnight. Then our behind the scenes Steve, whom does all the work, I believe. Then our hard working, and well grounded moderators. The exceptional observation, is the lack of ill feeling here, everyone seems to get on well, for 3 years that is extraordinary. Nice read on a cold Saturday morning. Yes we had many growing pains and a few times it looked like TSF Ship was on route to Davy Jones locker. With the members at the helm we pass through many a storm and have found this wonderful little Island we call home. .
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BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 20, 2016 16:39:56 GMT
Appropriate placing Jack - Rarotonga is the most beautiful island I have ever been to.
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Feb 20, 2016 22:12:26 GMT
Well, your / our target is to make the "Rarotonga" thread join Cindycan's "Canada: Cinderellas" falshung's "Delandres: Vignettes" falshung's and classical stamps "Forgeries" Allan's, Zipper's et al "British Postmarks" Londonbus's Cinderellas be the go-to place on the internet. (apologies to those missed)
These are some of the outstanding thread progressions on the internet, a gold mine for students of each discipline.
Many of the minor thread titles, over years, will get lost in entropy. work basically lost, by authors and respondents.
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rod222
Member
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Feb 20, 2016 22:46:02 GMT
Cook Islands Stamp. Scott#131 1949 Ngatangiia channel Rarotonga Unsure of the instruments surrounding the value tablets. War Clubs? Soil tilling tools?
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rod222
Member
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Feb 20, 2016 22:53:37 GMT
CICE China International Collection Expo ? 2013 Paul Gauguin Great wall of China CV $3 No Sc# avail.
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BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 20, 2016 22:58:01 GMT
That is cool Rod! But what I mean is, any idea where are those new Rarotonga stamps (including yours above) listed in Scott; under Rarotonga or Cook Islands.
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rod222
Member
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Feb 20, 2016 23:26:25 GMT
I gotta say, Brian, with Rarotonga, when I checked Scott, I thought I had made a horrible mistake With our initial discussion, I was focussed on Aitutaki, which I strongly believe needed a dedicated thread. With Rarotonga, I am now discombobulated. I do not see it under its own title. I have shrugged, and assumed it's OK under its own name. I am with you, it seems only listed under Cook Islands, (albeit, I only have Scott to 2009) I leave you, scratching my head. BTW : Nice preamble...great work.
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tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
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What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Feb 21, 2016 3:14:28 GMT
The Scott 2009 is my only post-1940 worldwide catalog; however my sense from looking at the PCI website is that Scott continues to co-mingle Cook Islands and Rarotonga issuances under the Cook Islands listing. If this proves to be the case, I think it best to move the Rarotonga thread to the Cook Islands board and delete that of Rarotonga.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2016 3:25:46 GMT
All of the above This is an adze used as a weapon, tool and for ceremonial purposes Unlike an ax which cuts against the grain , an adze cuts along so it is useful for use on such things as dugouts The particular adze shown is a Cook Island style with very precise and intricate lashing (a lost art) A ceremonial adze
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BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 21, 2016 3:51:35 GMT
Good call falschung - a multi-purpose Polynesian tool. Here is a proof stamp of Queen Makea of Rarotonga (only), and not queen of the rest of the Cook Islands. Her reign lasted forty years during a crucial time in the history of Rarotonga and the Cook Islands. On Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makea_Takau_Ariki. It was her husband everyone worried about .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2016 14:33:03 GMT
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tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,265
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Feb 22, 2016 15:51:11 GMT
Gibbons lists the Cook Islands asRarotonga Aitutaki Penrhyn Island Separate listings for each ...
Do I understand correctly that Gibbons doesn't have "Cook Islands" listings but rather lists the stamps under either Rarotonga, Aitutaki or Penrhyn Island?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 16:05:37 GMT
Gibbons appears to consider Rarotonga as Cook Islands It is shown as Cook Islands (Rarotunga)
then separate sections for Aitutaki and Penrhyn Island Michel lists them in the same manner
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tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,265
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Feb 22, 2016 16:18:47 GMT
Thanks. That is the same thing that Scott did in the 2009 catalog (i.e., Cook Islands (Rarotonga)).
My sense is that we should mirror that arrangement in our menu but I'd like to hear from someone with a current issue of Scott to see how the Rarotonga issues introduced since 2012 are being addressed.
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BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Feb 22, 2016 21:32:39 GMT
It does not really matter how the stamps are listed in this forum, but the catalogues are wrong in including Rarotonga with the Cook Islands stamps. When Rarotonga issued its own stamps in 1919, the Cook Islands ceased to exist as a philatelic entity, until 1932, when the three territories re-united under the Cook Islands banner. The 1902, 1903 and 1919 stamps were politically motivated, while the 1972, 1973 and 2011 stamps were collector motivated. Here is a simple time chart of the philatelic history of the Cook Islands.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Feb 22, 2016 23:32:38 GMT
It does not really matter how the stamps are listed in this forum, I disagree, we should adopt a stance of integrity and honesty in our work, presented here, for those new to collecting the region. I think your work, goes a long way to supporting that stance, Given your fabulous chart, I vote / support the separation of Rarotonga and Cook Islands. Opinion. Whilst your other comments may be truthful, I still find "collector motivated" somehow distasteful. All stamps, from all countries have a percentage of this, in their issues. We could do well to drop this from our verbiage, and let it remain our personal / silent choice to adopt.
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