pattib
Member
Posts: 80
What I collect: Anything France but especially semi-postal. Worldwide to 1920.
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Post by pattib on Mar 14, 2021 13:11:17 GMT
Thank you for the translation stainlessb Since I don’t plan on selling and I did pay a whole $4 for the one on the left described as 326a I will go with anglobob and say that they look different to my old eyes. Although I must admit I am not convinced. I appreciate the insight from you both.
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,588
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Mar 19, 2021 20:34:25 GMT
Today I received a long-awaited order of some French classical stamps, shown below. I ordered them more than two months ago, but the order was held up as the seller was trying to get another stamp I had asked for, before iving up and sending me what they did have. So we have: - Top row, left: Y&T #14B (Type II) Emperor Napoleon III 20c blue imperforate - Top row, right: Y&T #21: Emperor Napoleon III (without laurels) 10c bistre, an improvement over my current copy - Bottom row, Sage allegories, Y&T #64 (5c green Type I), 93 (35c dark violet on yellow paper Type II), 104 (50c rose Type I), 105 (2fr bistre on bluish paper). For these four I was hunting for color shades. I got what I hoped for in 3 out of 4 cases, so not too bad.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 19, 2021 22:00:46 GMT
Nice ! especially the 5c Sage with enough of a cancellation to believe it's an early issue and not a "Type III". What nuance are you looking fort? I might be able to help
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,588
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Mar 21, 2021 11:55:34 GMT
For the Y&T #21, 10c bistre, Emperor Napoléon III without laurels, I only have the standard "bistre" color. My catalog also lists "bistre-yellow", "bistre-brown", "bistre-light grey". The Y&T #64 (5c green Type I) was indeed to replace a mislabeled Type III (Y&T #106), which is lighter in color. The catalog tells me there is also a darker green version of #64. The Y&T #93 (35c Type II) exist on yellowish paper and on orange paper. I only had one copy, on a rather dark yellow paper, so needed another one to ascertain if that dark yellow was indeed yellow and not orange. It is yellow, so I have two of those now and looking of the orange paper variety. The Y&T #104 (50c rose Type I) complements a "rose vif" (deep [?] rose) that I already had. The Y&T #105 (2fr bistre on bluish paper Type I) complements a "light bistre" copy I already had.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 21, 2021 18:22:22 GMT
for the sake of discussion: Y & T 21 here is the sum total of what I have- sorted somewhat, but I will admit Bistre is a color I have difficulty discerning the variations- to the right are stamps with flaws- pity as the Muret postmark is a keeper regardless. Maury Ceres & Dallay lists 6 color variations. Y & T 93 again the sum total - i would consider the far right stamp "on orange" (and Maury et al, lists a violet-noir sur orange and a a violet-rouge sur orange, ( of with I would think his is NOT violet-rouge)all of the others are one of the 4 "on yellow shades" (of which 1 and 6 may well be the same shade. Y & T 64 Because 64A has no date I suspect it is a Type III and am still searching. 64Aa date appears to be Oct 21, 1876 which indicates it is a Type A, 64 B date of Dec 18, 1876 would be inline with the issue of it and the horizontal lines above the hands appears to be similar to the Type II engravings Y & T 104 and 105 it sounds like you have the shades you are after.
104 I only have these two and I suspect they are one in the same shade and 105 I have but one example hrdoktorx if there is anything with #21 and #93 that we reach consensus is a duplicate I will gladly send to you
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Mar 24, 2021 17:14:52 GMT
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 24, 2021 17:35:21 GMT
I wish I was more French fluent, I caught bits and pieces at best
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Post by smauggie on Mar 24, 2021 19:42:12 GMT
I wish I was more French fluent, I caught bits and pieces at best The auto-translate subtitles in English on Youtube made it mostly understandable.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 24, 2021 20:56:14 GMT
shows you what I know! now to go look for the button...
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 22, 2021 23:31:06 GMT
Today, because one can never have too many stamps in a study group (and I have one ... or maybe two more lots to arrive) at which point I'm drawing the line I was going back through this thread today.... I still haven't drawn the line
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jun 6, 2021 0:55:10 GMT
received today a nice study lot of early Ceres and Napoleon. a couple of severe flaws, but I've come come to accept that's how most lots now are offered. Top row 10 c Napoleon bistre, Row 2 1 c Ceres, and 10c Ceres likely will become "arts and craft stamps" some nice obliterations and color shades. 3rd row 40 c yellow with small dot star 26 and red ink .... 26 is a mystery!!
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jun 9, 2021 23:56:36 GMT
Received today- France Yvert # 33- the top stamp little more than a filler, but the lower stamp is a nice example It does have a small thin on the back which looks like someone carelessly removed a hinge, but it will compliment my other example which I believe is each of the two color shades listed- but as with the subtle nuamces- it's always subjective
and a nice example of 1 Franc #6 what looks like it may be carmine-brown... not sure if this is stained but unused, or very lightly cancelled (with stain) and hopefully is is not a fake!
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WERT
Departed
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Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Jun 10, 2021 0:02:06 GMT
stainlessb...What a great star cancel. Robert
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Jun 26, 2021 18:02:07 GMT
My latest trades and acquisitions,mostly for postmark interest. YT 1 YT 16 with Paris C cancellation YT 38 with Ancre ..anchor...cancellation BELP Belfort to Paris convoyeur cancel Pair of YT 72 Type 1 N under B YT 133 Paris Journaux cancellation The last 2 may be convoyeur cancels YT 69 and YT 78 N under U
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Jul 16, 2021 18:05:55 GMT
Ceres YT 16 Piquage Susse I found this interesting item a few years ago in a 50 percent reduction box at a small stamp show in England.The stamp has large guage perforations and other faults. Early French stamps were unperforated and various attempts were made to make perforating machines.One such machine was developed by the Susse brothers but when France started to print perforated stamps,the machine was sold to a stamp dealer,a Mr Maury.He then proceeded to perforate most of the stamps he had in his stock.Catalogues advise these are best to acquire on covers.This Mr Maury also was involved in a few dubious issues and is an ancestor of the Maury family connected with the Maury stamp catalogue.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Sept 23, 2021 0:17:14 GMT
I scrolled through all 9 pages and didn't see any mention of these (which I can somewhat understand.... fairly common, low CV) 1930-1932 Paris International Colonial Exposition. Yvert # 270 - 274, the fisrt 4 denominations are smaller /typical definitive size stamps, with the last issue (one of two 1 Franc 50 denominations) being sized more like most larger issues. Denominations are 15c, 40 c, 50 c. 1 Franc 50 centimes (x2). The 50 centimes issues has two types, fairly easy to distinguish, and two fairly easy color varieties to find. Both Type I and Type II are red, and then a pale red. Below is Type I - if you look at the top of the forehead straight up from the eyebrow, or directing in front of the most forward shock of hair you will see 3 small lines (almost a 4th). In the Type II these are absent. The most recent Y &T 2021 lists CV as the same, although earlier catalogues all have the Type II slightly higher in CV value. Having looked through approximately 200+ stamps, this seems odd as the type II seems much more common (based on my sample lot, about 12% are Type I... Type I with both color varieties Type II, also with both color varieties (some foreheads are much "cleaner than others") The 2021 Y & T catalogue list the Type one as # 272 and the Type II as # 272a, whereas, previous catalogues list them as separate 272 I and 272 II
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Oct 7, 2021 23:51:57 GMT
While sorting today- 1st image: Yvert #358, 90c, 1937, not an especially difficult stamp to come across (used) Then I come across this, and not until I go to put on into the Vario pages do I really notice the color... a changeling?... rather uniform. I can find nothing indicating this was issued in a gris-noire (Grey-Black... )? Then I notice that the "bridge" differs between the two- there are some others, but this the most noticeable: the drainage culvert is very crisp, as is the cross-hatching Culvert is not defined, the cancel makes it difficult, but almost looks like a second one to the right, and cross-hatching not a clean and crisp My eyes are tired from looking through the catalogues; does anyone else know anything about this?
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Oct 23, 2021 23:18:41 GMT
1930-31 Colonial Exposition
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REL1948
Member
Posts: 583
What I collect: 1840-Pre-Decimal, GB and Colonies, 1840 1 penny reds, Postal Histories
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Post by REL1948 on Oct 24, 2021 0:45:18 GMT
1930-31 Colonial Exposition Stanley, Very impressive pages and a wonderful France collection. The layouts, notes, vignettes, typeface etc. are superbly assembled. You should be very proud of your work and your collection.
Rob
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Oct 25, 2021 19:22:01 GMT
1939 Mercury 30c Yvert 412, there is a Type I and Type II, Based on CV Type II not that common. I can only find a text description of the differences in Yvert & Tellier 2021, which states Type II slope of 3 is slightly longer and the loop is firmer (google translate... I take this to mean fuller). It goes on to state that it is difficult to differentiate. I have gone through 54 stamps and I have one (1) only that may be a Type II. If someone has scans of both , PLEASE POST The full stamp is what I believe to be a Type I, the 'thicknessÆ of the denomination seems pretty consistent. The stamp on the right (I covered up the left side so they could be more side by side) The slant is ever so lightly longer and the lower half of the three (the "loop") is thicker.... actually the entire 3 and 0 look 'fuller". It is more similar to the later issues that moved PoSTES to the top in place of REPUBLIQUE There is red and dark red shade listed for Type I, only red for Type II and- does the spot inside the c (centimes) on the right stamp count as anneus lune ? What do you think???
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Oct 25, 2021 20:44:23 GMT
Mercury 40 c Yvert #413 probablbly little more than a curiosity here, but look at the bottom- The signature has a horizontal 'break" through much of it, white frame under the 40 (not completely unusual, but on better inked stamps backround in box is solid (as is to right of head) , the inside of the 4 has an extra horizontal line, POSTES has extra "imaginging" and below hand on left side an extra fint border line. Inbetween 2 & 3rd finger there's an extra line, there is also a slight "echo" above the top of the wimng" a double impression??? I may be driving myself crazy!
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,588
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Oct 25, 2021 21:19:40 GMT
My Cérès catalog does indicate a #413 variety with "incomplete printing", but only lists it as mint uncirculated, so I doubt this is it. Nothing about the 30c, though.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Oct 25, 2021 21:46:31 GMT
I think the 40c is more a curiosity
The latest Spink|Maury 2022-2023 Lists Type and II for the 30 c but no details
Type II CV is much higher Than Typ[e I , but not excessive 75 mint and 50 unused 16 used
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Oct 26, 2021 0:38:10 GMT
As I almost conclude the Mercury series (still 2 more pages to build) Here is the other stamp in the series with a Type I and Type II, Yvert # 416 70c. And as with the 30c there are no illustrations or images of the differences, simply a text description in Yvert & Tellier 2021, and as best I can find, this is the only discussion, brief as it may be- Google translate again makes me wonder what the true meaning might be- so here is the French description taken from the catalogue: 70 c Type II - les traits de l'aile entre le caducée et le serpent sont détachés les uns dest autres. Ils sont en partie comme soudés entre eux sur le Type I.The Google translation is: 70 c Type II - the features of the wing between the caduceus and the serpent are detached from each other. They are in part as sodas between them on the Type I. (sodas? ) There is also opnly a single color listed - lilac-rose... however looks to be a range of shades(?)to my eyes, but maybe this ink is somewhat fugitive? Next are some scans of the caducaus with serpents and the left wing of Mercury (in the background)- In addition, I selected these stamps as the letters in REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE seem to have not gotten the engravers undivided attention. Note left stamp- the R, C and E in FRANCAisE have either a missing leg (R) or gaps/breaks The middle stamp, the E in REPUBLIQUE has a break in it and P almost has no leg, and in Francaise the R is in even worse shape than the previous stamp and C has the same break and in the right stamp, a bit more of the same, although not quite as 'handicapped" The next scan has stamps with similar issues, but notice the middle stamp is shorther- I would have thought hte perforation machines would be rather consistent by this time in the years of stamp production. (this is when you know you've been looking at stamps too long and need a break!) and should anyone, someone have either a better translation, ot have some examples (even better) please post! I have searched the usual outlets and I see no offerings for the Type II in either denomination.One last image- although i am missing a few colors, I have most all including a couple of additional stamps either on the brownish-yellow paper (not listed, but it is a different paper) and some different colors , that I'll include whetherr they exist in catalogues or not! (the pre-oblits are there only to keep track of- those pages are made and stamps mounted) and with that, a peaceful night all!
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Oct 26, 2021 20:00:51 GMT
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REL1948
Member
Posts: 583
What I collect: 1840-Pre-Decimal, GB and Colonies, 1840 1 penny reds, Postal Histories
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Post by REL1948 on Oct 26, 2021 22:34:56 GMT
in my maddening quest to try and determine what the difference is between Type I and Type II, does anyone see anything different about the serpents and the shaft? For all i know I am not even looking in the correct area,,,, You will note numerous issues with the letters in REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE Jeez Stanley, I wish I could help but after staring at your images for awhile, my eyes feel like they've been dilated. I feel your pain...
Rob
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Oct 26, 2021 22:38:28 GMT
Thanks Rob
I understand completely..... They may all be Type I... or I may not even be looking in the correct spot.... I will give it a day or two and if no additional layers have peeled off the onion, I'll mount those that I retain as Type I and just leave an empty space for the Type II
I would like to move on to something else (this week?!?)
Stan
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Philatarium
Member
Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,032
What I collect: Primarily focused on Japan, but lots of other material catches my eye as well ...
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Post by Philatarium on Oct 26, 2021 23:38:25 GMT
stainlessb Stanley: I know nothing about these stamps, but do you see the differences in the number of completeness of those long strokes in the background in the area around the top of the 2nd serpent's head and the shaft? There are more lines, with more completeness, in some of the examples you've presented. Perhaps these differences are due to plate wear, but perhaps this is where the differences in type are? Unfortunately, I'm learning a new image program and can't figure out quickly how to draw circles, so I've just cropped down to the area I'm referring to for your first two examples.
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WERT
Departed
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Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Oct 26, 2021 23:50:24 GMT
Hi PhilatariumIn my opinion is plate wear OR dry inking. Robert
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Oct 26, 2021 23:50:24 GMT
There are numerous plate variations, and the area you describe is the shading on the underside of Mercury's winged helmet and i i had not noticed that! If I glean anything from the translation from Yvertt & Tellier, it is something about the right wing (which would be his left) which you can see behind/through the serpent who's head end sup on the lft of the staff.
But thank you so much looking as it did cause me to reread the translation and I think I may shift my focus away from the shaft (I seemed to have been fixated by the over-lapping spirals of the serpents
but I think I will look again in the morning , and perhaps spot something!!!
I was using Adobe Illustrator to draw circles and add arrows, but as I am about to completely retire I will lose access to the software (work) so i have (thanks to @wert ) switched to Libre and after a bit of struggles have it working well enough (although to say I have mastered the program would be a big stretch). i looked at severalothers but couldn't get them to work for me.... (operator error)
Thanks again for looking!
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