mikeclevenger
Member 
Posts: 887 
What I collect: Ohio Tax Stamps, Ohio & Georgia Revenues, US Revenues, US FDC's, & Germany Classics
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Post by mikeclevenger on Jun 1, 2019 11:59:30 GMT
Great documentation and thanks for sharing. It doesn't change my opinion. In every case it looks like the marking is placed before the item enters the possession of the USPOD. I know many post offices may have kept supplies of red white and blue labels and even hand-stamps stating "Via Air Mail" but it doesn't seem like this was applied during the processing of the mail item. I have an "Air Mail" stamp used by my local post office. I got this many years ago from the manager of our post office. She said it was still in her desk and no one wanted it, but thought I might like it. It is the actual one they used to stamp all letters that were going air mail. I am not sure what you consider "applied during the processing of the mail item", but I consider it as part of processing as soon as the envelope is handed to the mail clerk. Once you hand it to them, you aren't getting it back. LOL.
Here is a picture of it.  |
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Post by stamphinger on Jun 1, 2019 12:28:14 GMT
Very attractive cover, abctoo. I collect stamp dealers covers and Marks is one of the venerable Canadian dealers. Lots of collectable markings on your cover. Thanks for posting an image.
SH |
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Post by stamphinger on Jun 1, 2019 12:42:18 GMT
Hi mikeclevenger:
Many years ago I worked for the post office in Omaha, NE as a window clerk. We used a stamp similar to the image you posted to stamp letters and parcels that did not bear any other airmail markings. I would do it routinely, but often customers using plain envelopes would request an airmail stamp. They didn't trust the mail clerks to give an item airmail treatment based solely on the postage applied.
SH |
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Post by abctoo on Jun 2, 2019 3:12:47 GMT
Here is a cover that went to a collector in Hong Kong about a month before I joined the Stamp Forum. It helped with the balance of payments between our two countries. January 2, 1940 near complete cover from Santa Barbara, California to Ulan Bator, Mongolia sent by surface mail, stopped en route in Beijing (Peking), China, where stamped in black 郵路發生 怚務故退 (“Postal Route Interrupted. End service obstacle), and returned. It was mailed within 4 months after a 16 September 1939 cease fire agreement ended the Battles of Khalkhyn Gol fought on the border between the Mongolian People's Republic and Japanese Occupied Manchuria by the Khalkhyn River. Ultimately, it was a Soviet and Mongolian victory over the Japanese Sixth Army. In Japan, the decisive battle of the conflict is known as the Nomonhan Incident ノモンハン事件 (Nomonhan jiken) after Nomonhan, a nearby village on the border. Mail service to Mongolia through Peking (Beijing) had been interrupted at least since 1937, following Manchukuo's intentions on Russian Territories after 1931. The sender, aware of the route interruption, noted in the front lower left corner to send "thru U.S.S.R." The clerk who routed it through China perhaps was thinking the cease fire had opened up the route through Peking (Beijing) to Mongolia that had been closed since at least 1937. I know only of two other covers with the eight character route interrupted handstamp. Those two other covers are from 1937 when the route closed. All three covers also have red "REBUT" handstamps and unclaimed markings. They also have the handwritten, red "Route interrupted" applied by the Seattle post office foreign exchange section on return. The red "Service interrupted" writing on the 1937 New York cover and this 1940 Santa Barbara cover appear to have been written by the same postal clerk.   The 1937 item from a 2012 Hong Kong auction.  NOTE: The letters went to "different" Mongolia Post Offices (Ulan Bantor, Mongolia and Tana Tova, Northern Mongolia). |
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Post by abctoo on Jun 6, 2019 8:10:12 GMT
Can we as Stamp Forum members create a catalog of auxiliary markings. There is a lot of knowledge among our members. We could use this thread as a start. First we need to classify the types of markings (and can provide examples). For example, this is a very incomplete list of categories of markings: (1) special mailing services at time of mailing in additional to regular postage (airmail, special handling, registered mail, printed matter, express mail, priority mail, return receipt, certified, etc.), (2) mailing services after mailing (returned mail and its variations, forwarded mail, undeliverable mail, postage due, damaged and lost mail, held mail, general delivery, fee claimed by first office, etc.); (3) services in addition to mail services (customs and duties, some first flights, stamp and other show and exposition markings, souvenir markings like first day covers, etc.). These are just a few off the top of my head. You all have many more. Shouldn't we use this thread to develop something useful for all Forum members? What do you think? Contribute!
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Post by stamphinger on Jun 6, 2019 12:32:18 GMT
abctoo:
Certainly a good idea. There are many different types of markings and some covers have multiple markings. My initial thought is, how could the postings displaying various markings be grouped by type to limit the search for a specific markings? That is, posts on this thread appear sequentially, one on top of the other and a viewer may need to scroll through them to find the mark(s) he/she was seeking. It seems to me that as the number of posts increase the more difficult it would become to find specific examples. Is there a way to group posts by type of marking within them? Multiple threads, perhaps, that are content limited by the category of marking?
SH
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Post by abctoo on Jun 7, 2019 8:34:29 GMT
I think we need to get tomiseksj , the Stamp Forum moderator, involved and see what he thinks. I do not know the web-space limitations on threads in the Stamp Forum.
It may be possible to set up separate threads, such as "Auxiliary Markings-Airmail, "Auxiliary Markings-Special Handling," "Auxiliary Markings-Registered," etc. That would be a lot of separate threads.
And you raise the issue of multiple markings on a cover. I do not think the Forum can handle a large volume of duplicate photos - one for each separate thread. It may be possible if we put one photo in only one of the threads and a single one line of text only in a related thread that says something like "see (date of listing) in Auxiliary Thread-(such and such) for combined use with other markings." Of course, that would mean the poster would have to do a little more than just post a picture in one thread.
Perhaps, the information incoming into the threads could ultimately provide a good series in the Forum's newsletter, in essence a functional guide or reference to auxiliary markings.
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Post by feebletodix on Jun 7, 2019 9:26:39 GMT
Having dabbled in database design, and filling them, may I put a thought or two into the pot.
First you have to agree on a set of references to label each marking and then someone would have to manually enter that information against each picture displayed in the thread. Then insert the list at the head of each page in the thread so that it is the first thing that is readable. The search engine can then find them on request.
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Post by abctoo on Jun 7, 2019 11:16:17 GMT
to feebletodix:
You are absolutely correct. If we can all agree on a "set of references" we can do it. Without a standardized set of search words, we are not all on the same page.
I just typed "registered" as an example into the search box at the top of this thread. It reduced the thread's current five pages to one page, showing only those postings that included the example word "registered." While some of the information found in that search was superfluous, all mentioned "registered."
I then tried to refine that search by using two words, "registered" and "airmail." Only two postings of this entire thread appeared.
If we can agree on the references we are going to use for search terms, then we may already have a basis to separate the individual items out of a long thread.
Again, this does not yet put items identified by the same search term (category) into any order, just gives them all.
As more information is posted and subcategories determined, it may take more refinement. It may be a lot of work, but as we go alone, those who have posted an item can "edit" that posting and make adjustments to the "reference" words.
One problem is how to explain to new people what we are doing so they can join in the fun.
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Post by abctoo on Jun 7, 2019 11:32:29 GMT
Found a small wrinkle with one of the search terms I tried, I used "airmail" and came up with two posts in this thread. I realized that it is also written as "air mail" with a space between the words. So I tried a search in this thread for putting in "air mail" in quotes because I realized that the word "Mail" would generate items outside of the category. The search produced about 1 page of listings, None included the single word "airmail," and only included "air mail" with space between words. Trying again with both "air mail" and airmail I got a "no posts" result. It will work if we figure it out.
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tomiseksj
Moderator 
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,053
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Jun 7, 2019 12:46:24 GMT
I think we need to get tomiseksj , the Stamp Forum moderator, involved and see what he thinks. I do not know the web-space limitations on threads in the Stamp Forum... As mentioned, we are limited in what we can do here, having to work with what the ProBoards software allows. Certainly, separate threads for the various markings is an option but one that would mean multiple posts for covers with more than one marking. The key downside to such an approach is that those who aren't interested in the subject would quickly tire of having to wade through many potentially redundant posts when visiting the Forum. I think the simplest approach would be to come up with a list of categories and their associated search terms and then ask those who post to ensure the appropriate search terms are included in their respective posts. Then, as has been suggested above, using the search function on the thread should produce a 90% solution. The challenge here, apart from coming up with the categories, is to get all who post to follow with the process. The workaround for those who don't would be for Admin or a Moderator to edit posts that are lacking and add the appropriate terms (as their time permits). Sites like the Auxiliary Markings Club can prove useful in identifying the categories. |
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Post by abctoo on Jun 8, 2019 10:52:35 GMT
To : tomiseksj , stamphinger , feebletodix , Kosmo and all
The Auxiliary Markings Club certainly is a very specialize group with a long history. It does provide a great starting point for classifying auxiliary markings. It does not have the input of postings that Stamp Forum members can provide. At a minimum, posting auxiliary markings on the Stamp Forum would expand the available resources to make them more understandable.
The moderator raises a very important point about Forum visitors (and many Forum members too) becoming confused with a thread that they give up. We do not want to lose anyone. And that means whatever we put up should be explainable to people regardless of whether they collect U.S. covers, Russian covers, Canadian covers, or those from anywhere else.
I have been a member for less than two months and got a bit frustrated not understanding how to circulate within a thread. Kosmo asked a simple question, "What is an auxiliary marking?" That's because the thread gave rise to the question, but did not inherently clarify the answer. stamphinger and feebletodix both demonstrated the difficulties a complex series of threads would have on keeping people involved, and the potential difficulties that would arise trying to keep the display manageable.
One possibility to avoid losing people before they really search the thread is to have its first post identify the general categories referencing the auxiliary markings the thread will contain AND provide a list of the key word(s) to insert in the thread's search feature to locate the specific references the viewer would like to see. It seems at least one or two words (two difference references) can be entered so that the combined search shows both categories. These references could be a type of marking, a country where the marking was made, or any other combination that would be useful to the viewer, whether a member or a guest. In other words, start the thread of with simple instructions to make it easy to use. Those who want to post can be informed to put in all relevant specific reference words in their posts so that their markings will come up in the search for any one of those markings.
Of course, the opening post has to have a little information about the subject to get them started.
Perhaps, starting a new thread on auxiliary markings this way will assuage tomiseksj 's fears of overtaxing the system and avoid him having to get more involved in managing the thread than he does for any other. If this works, it might resolve the problems I had in trying to use the Forum in the beginning. I am glad I did not give up, which would have been the easiest thing to do.
Let's hash this out and see how we can make it work. Who knows, we might get more people involved.
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Post by abctoo on Jun 16, 2019 6:19:01 GMT
I am putting together my old collection of free franks and autographs for disposal. I am getting older (born in 1946) and my son recently said he would not continue my stamp collection after I passed. I found an 1818 local Columbia, South Carolina cover from Wade Hampton I (1752-1835) to William Ford De Saussure (1792-1870). The cover does have what could be described as interesting "auxiliary" markings.  On the face of the folded cover is General Hampton's hand drawn finger pointing to his handwritten text that states: "This letter relates to some business between Wade Hampton & Keating Simons Esqr. the elder, and as Mr. De Saussure happens to be out the way Mr. Simons is requested to open it -- W.H." I do not believe you can consider that Gen. Hampton wrote his own name in the text as being his autograph as it was not intended as a signature, but his initials were. The pointing finger is a delivery instruction and not seen on early covers. The use of a pointing finger as a delivery instruction two hundred years later is generally to indicate to return to sender. The receiving notation states: "Gen. Wade Hamptons letter to Wm. F. De Saussure Esq. but sent to K Simons to be opened -- the letter is dated 10th Nov. 1818".   Unfolded, the cover is the full size of a single folded letter sheet, and is approximately 9 7/8 inches x 16 1/8 inches. It is blank backed. What documents it contained, other than being a "business matter,' are unknown.  During the Revolutionary War, Wade Hampton was Lieutenant Colonel in the South Carolina militia regiment of light dragoons in the brigade of Brigadier General Thomas Sumter (1734-1832). In 1781, Lt. Colonel Wade Hampton surprised a British force awaiting return of Keating Simons (1753-1834), a paroled prisoner of war, directly in front of Lewisfield Plantation (that Simons had built in 1774 near Moncks Corner, Berkeley County, South Carolina). In this skirmish, Hampton's force destroyed several boatloads of supplies and took 78 prisoners. Two of De Saussure's uncles had fought along side of Keating but were killed in Revolutionary War action before Keating was captured by the British. Later, Wade Hampton I was a Member of Congress from South Carolina in 1795-1797 and 1803-1805. In 1808, he became a Colonel in the U.S. Army, promoted to Brigader General in 1809, and Major General in 1813. During the War of 1812, on 26 October 1813, Gen. Hampton commanded the American forces in the Battle of the Chateauguay (fought at Allan's Corners, near present-day Ormstown, Quebec), leading thousands of U.S. soldiers to defeat at the hands of a little over a thousand colonial Canadian militia and 180 Mohawk warriors, then getting his army lost in the woods. On April 6, 1814, he resigned his commission and returned to South Carolina. His son Wade Hampton II (1791-1858) and grandson Wade Hampton III (1818-1902) also became prominent in South Carolina social and political circles. Wade Hampton III served as the state's first Democratic Party governor after the American Civil War and then was elected to the United States Senate. During the war, Wade Hampton III had a distinguished career as a general in the Confederate army. At the time of his death in 1835, Revolutionary War Gen. Hampton was considered the wealthiest planter in the United States, and claimed title to over 3,000 slaves. |
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Post by gregalex on Aug 26, 2019 0:13:46 GMT
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de61
Member
Posts: 258
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Post by de61 on Mar 21, 2020 21:47:04 GMT
Night Air MailThree first day covers from the 1926 International Philatelic Exhibition in New York. The FDCs were likely created by savvy collectors at the time who knew they would receive the cancellations, markings, and postage due stamps that were applied to enhance the philatelic interest in the covers. The first one has the philatelic exhibition first-day cancel with "Night Air Mail" and "DUE 2 CENTS" auxiliary markings. It also has a Cleveland, Ohio, pre-canceled postage due stamp and 2 Cleveland circular date receiving marks, one for the city division and one for the D.P.O.   The second cover also has the philatelic exhibition first-day cancel with "Night Air Mail" and "DUE 2 CENTS" auxiliary markings. It has an Evanston, Illinois, pre-canceled postage due stamp with Chicago Air Mail duplex and Evanston receiving marks on the back.   The last cover has a White Plains duplex cancel for the philatelic exhibition first day with " Night Air Mail" and "Due (7) Cents, G.P.O.N.Y (D.M.)" auxiliary markings. It also has 7 cents in postage due stamps with the Muscatine, Iowa, oval cancel. On the back is a Chicago, Ill., Air Mail duplex receiving mark.  
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de61
Member
Posts: 258
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Post by de61 on Mar 22, 2020 21:25:25 GMT
I really don't know how to classify this one, but seems to be most appropriate as an auxiliary label rather than an etiquette, so I am showing it here. I have no additional information about the label.  |
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,109
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Mar 22, 2020 21:41:15 GMT
de61Copy and paste the following in your fave browser for lots of interesting pages: "letter returned to the office by carrier" label
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de61
Member
Posts: 258
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Post by de61 on Mar 22, 2020 22:06:05 GMT
de61 Copy and paste the following in your fave browser for lots of interesting pages: "letter returned to the office by carrier" label Thanks, Jeff!! Funny, but when I put "letter returned to the office by carrier" into my browser without the quotes, which I did before posting the label, I got no useful information. When I put it in exactly as you have it, I got a bunch. Don |
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 4,525
What I collect: Cinderellas and some Ephemera from Great Britain, France and Israel plus a few beautiful bits from elsewhere !! Topical interests include Flags & Judaica, the latter with an emphasis on the Jewish National Fund.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Apr 4, 2020 11:58:58 GMT
 I recently won an eBay item from a seller in the USA. It took an age to arrive but that is normal so did not worry. When it did arrive I found this piece (above) enclosed with my order. Apparently, the seller received the envelope back for the reason seen in the handstamp (in red). When I got my letter (at the second attempt) I quickly learned that the address was written the same as the one that was not good enough the first time !!!  It is not uncommon to write 'IL' for Israel but is 'IL' also for Illinois ? Maybe that's what happened the first time ? |
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Post by smauggie on Apr 4, 2020 12:18:25 GMT
Yes, IL is the designated abbreviation for Illinois, and could confuse postal workers.
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,109
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Apr 10, 2020 20:40:31 GMT
I believe the UPU requires foreign destination mail to be addressed with the receiving country name spelled out.
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 4,525
What I collect: Cinderellas and some Ephemera from Great Britain, France and Israel plus a few beautiful bits from elsewhere !! Topical interests include Flags & Judaica, the latter with an emphasis on the Jewish National Fund.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Apr 22, 2020 20:37:03 GMT
So it is most likely the fault of eBay who give my address as IL !! Here's another recent tragedy. I sent a very nice (and not inexpensive) item to the USA. That was back in December. It has made the return journey to me, over 3½ months later looking like this !!    Completely ripped open on 2 sides it does have an arrival cancellation of Jan 3rd. The contents were of course, missing.  Does anyone know what the N8N (?) means ? One Israel stamp appears to have been cancelled while the others have not (Bar the pen notation) The USPS placed this label on the envelope on February 19th. The odd thing here is that the address is the same one I have used before with no mistakes. So why wasn't it delivered ? Why the long time lapse between arriving in NY and having the coded label attached ? And where did the contents go missing ? But there is something even more interesting (and odd). I have a theory of what happened to this letter, but it's late. I haven't seen a USA label like this before so I will keep it as the oddity it is.  |
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,109
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on May 27, 2020 20:08:07 GMT
RETURN TO SENDER My my the USPOD gets touchy about reusing stamps, at least affixing stamps with tape  The wording on this cover is thus:
RETURN TO SENDER
Reuse of Stamps with Intent To Cause Loss to the GOVERNMENT is PUNISHABLE By FINE and IMPRISONMENT Postal Service Manual 142.14 The tape has yellowed and dried over the years which I think adds to the "beauty" of the cover. I had one case of a returned cover which I mailed. I had cut the postage and corner off an unmailed item and taped it neatly to a new piece. It got kicked back with a handwritten reprimand. The returned cover was a large 9 x 12 and I felt it not savable. BTW this item goes into my 1c Jefferson postal history collection. I have 2 volumes, domestic and international. Quite a lot of fun. ... So, given the challenge I shall prepare a few covers with postage applied to colored paper and taped to a new envelope, drop them in the mail and see what happens. |
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Post by abctoo on Jun 2, 2020 5:52:46 GMT
So it is most likely the fault of eBay who give my address as IL !! Here's another recent tragedy. I sent a very nice (and not inexpensive) item to the USA. That was back in December. It has made the return journey to me, over 3½ months later looking like this !! Completely ripped open on 2 sides it does have an arrival cancellation of Jan 3rd. The contents were of course, missing. Does anyone know what the N8N (?) means ? One Israel stamp appears to have been cancelled while the others have not (Bar the pen notation) The USPS placed this label on the envelope on February 19th. The odd thing here is that the address is the same one I have used before with no mistakes. So why wasn't it delivered ? Why the long time lapse between arriving in NY and having the coded label attached ? And where did the contents go missing ? But there is something even more interesting (and odd). I have a theory of what happened to this letter, but it's late. I haven't seen a USA label like this before so I will keep it as the oddity it is. NSN = "No Such Name" |
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,109
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Jun 2, 2020 10:23:47 GMT
NSN - NO SUCH NUMBER
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Post by spain1850 on Jun 2, 2020 21:59:07 GMT
I'm always on the lookout for auxiliary markings, when I am out postcard hunting.  |
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Post by spain1850 on Jun 3, 2020 0:05:36 GMT
I'm assuming this is another way to handle a postage due situation? Can't make out the purple marking beneath the stamp however.  |
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Post by spain1850 on Jun 3, 2020 0:23:35 GMT
Doesn't look like anyone wanted to deliver this one...  |
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Post by spain1850 on Jun 3, 2020 0:40:07 GMT
This one looks like they may have miss spelled San Rafael, or it was illegible.  |
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kasvik
Member
Posts: 453
What I collect: Cancels mostly, especially Sweden Gävle and Lidingö, Switzerland Geneva, Germany Pforzheim
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Post by kasvik on Jun 4, 2020 1:18:07 GMT
No good deed goes unpunished. I sent this in February. A condolence card, no less. It came back yesterday after nearly four months marked ‘Not Deliverable’. Huh? It’s a well-known office park, next to the UN. And almost a month just to get to Geneva, airmail? Coronavirus flight cancellations did not begin until after it was received in Geneva. I’ll never know. The even longer return is slightly more explicable, but only slightly:
- 17 February 2020: mailed from Norfolk
- 18 February 2020: processed in Richmond
- 10 March 2020: received in Geneva
- 26 May 2020: processed on return to America, somewhere
- 2 June 2020: returned to my front door
Anyway, enough of my grouching. Tomorrow I’ll jam it in a bigger envelope and zap it back, to the exact same address.  |
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