firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Aug 19, 2013 2:54:18 GMT
While a newbie at these it has opened a whole other collection,As I understand it to prevent misuse(theft) of postage, companies were granted permission from Canada post to perforate stamps with their own logo.This usually consists of three or four letters in various arrangements.There are literally hundreds of these stamps and were used well into the sixties and early seventies.Definitives seem to be more numerous but other issues were also used.There is a rarity factor for smaller companies and those that did not for one reason or other use as many.A study group has documented all that were submitted at BNAPS.org.I have printed a large catalog from their site with most of the information,if anyone has a question about these .Very interesting imagine investing in a perferator and paying someone to punch holes in your postage all to save those three cent stamps from being misused.
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cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on Aug 19, 2013 3:22:51 GMT
Last time I checked, the U.S. Postal Service still allowed perfins, as long as they were relatively small in size (half-inch square rings a bell, but that should be doublechecked by anyone hoping to revive it).
I lost interest after striking out on finding a company that would produce a perfin 'perfinizer' for any sort of reasonable price.
If someone could point me in the direction of a perfing machine, I'd be all ears. I'm slightly nervous that the self adhesives would gum up the works, but I'd listen.
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Ryan
Member
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,720
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Aug 19, 2013 3:41:52 GMT
For those who are interested in these perfins, you're in luck - it's a fairly recent development, but the catalogue for Canadian perforated stamps is now available on line in PDF format. www.bnaps.org/PerfinHandbook/Perfinbook-1.pdfRyan
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Ryan
Member
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,720
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Aug 19, 2013 3:45:07 GMT
Last time I checked, the U.S. Postal Service still allowed perfins. It must be the same in Great Britain. When I purchased my CD copy of the Deegam catalogue for Machins, it was posted using private perfins. Ryan
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cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on Aug 19, 2013 3:55:07 GMT
My computer told me I already had that Canadian perfin pdf, but I downloaded it anyway, and the pdf file date seems to be several months newer, so it might be worth grabbing it even if you think you already have it?
Can't hurt...
[edit: When I say 'newer' I mean newer than the file already on my system. If you don't have it yet, then ignore all this and grab it.]
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Aug 19, 2013 4:04:12 GMT
Mom told me last visit there were U.S. collectors who also specialize in these.Saw some Italian ones and Newfoundland Any others???
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Aug 19, 2013 4:07:46 GMT
CDJ... I printed that file used most of a ink cartridge and alot of paper.There is no value assigned so market dictates as it should.
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I.L.S.
Departed
Rest in Peace
I am in Clearfield, Pa. I love US Classic covers!
Posts: 2,113
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Post by I.L.S. on Aug 19, 2013 11:28:47 GMT
Here is a perfin for ya! It's not just a cow~ It's a HOLY COW! Get it? lol
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Aug 19, 2013 12:09:47 GMT
WOW Thats great!!! I've run across a few that I wonder whats holding them together as they have so many holes.New interest for me,allows for more collecting challenge.
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Admin
Administrator
Posts: 2,637
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Post by Admin on Aug 20, 2013 5:31:42 GMT
Froggy I have some early GB perfins if you want them they are yours. Message me your address .
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Sept 2, 2013 2:14:01 GMT
Just scored over a hundred perfins at a price that comes out to about twenty cents a piece.Most of those I find are going at $1 or more plus shipping.Don't exactly know why but I am on this kick now.Earliest I have is three cent small queen.
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Sept 3, 2013 22:09:03 GMT
Help !!!! OCD kicking in.I had to start ANOTHER binder just devoted to these perfins,I had them located with my O.H.M.S. perfs but in trying to lay out pages to allow room for missing stamps overflow problem.My Canadian now occupies 15 binders and from the looks my revenues are also going to move as well.I believe I'm going to look for a rubber house so it will expand with my stuff.
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Zuzu
Member
Inactive
Self-Proclaimed Black Belt in Google Fu
Posts: 768
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Post by Zuzu on Sept 4, 2013 0:40:04 GMT
Help !!!! OCD kicking in. ... I believe I'm going to look for a rubber house so it will expand with my stuff. I thought you were going to say you were looking for a rubber room!
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Sept 4, 2013 1:09:34 GMT
Basically I have that my studio/practice room has rubberized cork walls,my wife says its still TOO LOUD !!!!!! sorry dear I'll turn it down (not)
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Zuzu
Member
Inactive
Self-Proclaimed Black Belt in Google Fu
Posts: 768
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Post by Zuzu on Sept 4, 2013 1:17:46 GMT
I could use one of those for my girls when they get to screaming at each other.
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Sept 4, 2013 3:59:12 GMT
O.K. my interest is sparked.Are these listed in a revenue catalog or the like???I am working from the one I printed off Bnaps site,but that's my only reference.I know one of you knows seems like someone here always knows. Amazing!!!
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Admin
Administrator
Posts: 2,637
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Post by Admin on Sept 4, 2013 4:37:56 GMT
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Sept 4, 2013 7:25:08 GMT
Yes Jack that's the one takes lots of ink and lots of paper.I was wondering if a value associated catalog was in print not that it means much in real world . Still could give clues to the impossibles, or ordinaries.I use their rarity factor as a gauge but that's my only clue.
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Admin
Administrator
Posts: 2,637
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Post by Admin on Sept 4, 2013 7:46:06 GMT
CV I have no idea of. I only know of one way. That is to look at eBay and track the prices that they are selling for, its a lot of work but it will give you a good idea of the current market prices.
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Sept 4, 2013 13:27:40 GMT
Unfortunately I seem to be the one buying them.Does that mean I'm setting market price??? " FEEL THE FORCE, LUKE" Some savvy seller must have spotted me some large lots are listed this week my wallets crying already.
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Post by stamporator on Sept 4, 2013 15:47:47 GMT
Hi firstfrog2013,
I started collecting private perfins about 10 years ago and now have about 4,000 different ones, with lots of duplicates. There currently is no catalogue with prices. The best reference is the latest BNAPS pdf file that you referenced. There is a catalog that was professionally published by BNAPS called 'Canadian Stamps with Perforated Initials' by J.C. Johnson and G. Tomasson, with a 4th edition printed in 1985 (which I have) and I believe that was a later 5th Edition.
In bulk, these perfins typically sell for 10 to 25 cents each, and individually (for rarer ones) from $1 upwards. As usual, a few eBay sellers do not know the stamps rarity and list common ones starting at 99 cents, only beginners purchase these, but after a time you see lots of these common ones and can then expand to the more rare ones.
How are you collecting them? Some collect just one version of the perfin on a stamp, others collect all eight (8) orientations (if they exist). As usual, collectors collect in different ways.
I collect all permutations of perfins. In fact, the OHMS ones are included and identified as 'O7' (5-hole), 'O8' (4-hole 1935-46), and 'O9' (4-hole 1942-1949). So I have the OHMS in both my main BOB collection and also additional ones in my Perfin collection.
These are fun to collect, and still reasonably priced!
- stamporator -
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Sept 4, 2013 16:18:43 GMT
WOW !!!! I was beginning to think I was all alone with these.I am happy at moment to find one of each.Thanks for the price tip I'm sure I have overpaid for some but, gotta start somewhere.Even after reading I still can't tell differences in some of the cpr's etc.I am using blank quadrilles[ as I do for most of Canada] and trying to space them out so I'm not constantly redoing pages.At this point it's learn as I go.As you have like twenty times what I do I won't insult you offering my few common dups, but you are surely welcome to them.I'm going to search for that publication I try not to buy extreme amounts of books as most are the same info but,this is something I'll use.
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Sept 4, 2013 16:21:48 GMT
Oh yeah, THANKS A BUNCH.
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Post by stamporator on Sept 4, 2013 18:48:11 GMT
Hi firstfrog2013, Some more info: I keep my perfins in Clear 7 row Unitrade plastic sheets with a black sheet of paper between each plastic sheet, and housed in 3-ring binders. This allows viewing of the front and back of the stamp (the back is best for seeing the actual perfin) without removing it your collection. I have also found that even common stamps with a common perfin can increase in price due to the orientation of the perfin. When perforating, they typically placed the sheet with the top of the stamp upwards (with the stamp facing up or down) which resulted in a perfin orientation of 1 or 5. The next common orientation is 3 or 7 (Placing the top of the stamp downwards. Finding an orientation where they inserted the pane horizontally can be more difficult and resulting in a higher price because of its rarity. There are also stamps with double or triple perfins, and also in differing orientations. Also the placing of the perfin within the stamp can vary the price. Pricing varies depending on how much of the perfin is within the stamps borders and if the perforations of the stamp are affected. Although you believe that all your duplicates are common, there may be one with an orientation that makes it more rare! Although I have over 4,000 different perfins (based upon the stamp, the perfin, and the stamp orientation), I have seen and ID more than 4,000 more that I do not yet have! If you want more information, or scans of some of my collection then let me know either via this thread of direct e-mail. - stamporator - W10-3-41 (Perfin ID=W10; Orientation=3; Scott #41) W10-5-41 (Perfin ID=W10; Orientation=5; Scott #41) W10-7-37 (Perfin ID=W10; Orientation=7; Scott #37)
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Post by collectingperfins on Sept 4, 2013 21:50:16 GMT
The initial post talked about the cost of perforating 3 cent stamps and how that seemed to provide a poor return on investment. My earliest perfin is on an British cover from 1869, and the cost of that stamp was 1/45 of a day's pay for an average worker. The scam running in 1869 was that a clerk would take a sheet of stamps from the mail room, "sell" them to a corrupt postal clerk for half of face value, and pocket about 3 days wages. That would add up quickly enough. Another post asked which countries perforated stamps. The answer is that virtually all countries had perfins. Another post asked about rarity. In Canadian perfins, many of the rare patterns were Canadian stamps perforated by American companies for use on prepaid return envelopes. There is an ink version of perfins too: commercial overprints. Some friends and I post articles about such stamps here: cosgb.blogspot.ca/collectingperfins Could you please register before posting ADMIN
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Sept 5, 2013 15:10:47 GMT
Nice information ! Thanks! That reference book while may be nice is also currently selling for $85.Guess that will wait.Not sure at this point how far I want to delve into specializing in these but,very interesting, so who knows.
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lokos
Member
Inactive
Ontario, Canada
Posts: 167
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Post by lokos on Jan 10, 2014 22:10:57 GMT
WOW !!!! I was beginning to think I was all alone with these.I am happy at moment to find one of each.Thanks for the price tip I'm sure I have overpaid for some but, gotta start somewhere. Even after reading I still can't tell differences in some of the cpr's etc.I am using blank quadrilles[ as I do for most of Canada] and trying to space them out so I'm not constantly redoing pages.At this point it's learn as I go.As you have like twenty times what I do I won't insult you offering my few common dups, but you are surely welcome to them.I'm going to search for that publication I try not to buy extreme amounts of books as most are the same info but,this is something I'll use. I hope I'm not giving you bad information here Frog but if I remember correctly the perfins in the catalog I believe are to scale which means you can (especially now that you printed the catalog out, be rather hard on the computer screen) just lay your perforated stamp over the catalog image and line up the pins with the holes in your stamp. For companies that look to have multiple perfins which are identical (such as International Harvester) the differences are sometimes just the addition, subtraction or placement of just one pin. That small diff. was the identifier of which branch office the stamp came from. I don't have any Cdn. perfins handy right now or I would have verified that before I mentioned it. Rick Just re-reading this thread and personally I don't think you were overpaying. From what I've seen for pricing over the past couple of years of mixtures of 100 or more worldwide perfins seem to range in the 0.20 to 0.25 each range, when the quantity drops to singles or small groups the price per stamp usually seems to go up. I have a copy of the fourth edition (1985) of the Cdn. perfin catalog as well as the 2012 online edition and I thought it was interesting in the diff. in what they had to say about pricing over that 27 years. The 85 edition states prices can range from 0.01 cent to $100.00 per perfin with the average range being 0.25 cents to $1.00. The 2012 version states prices can range from 0.15 cents to $300.00 with the average range being 0.25 cents to $5.00. They also added a note into the 2012 edition which states "the existence of a perfin in a stamp does not lower it below regular UNITRADE (SCOTT) used catalogue value as is the case in some countries around the world." which does seem to be true. A lot of other countries still seem to think of perfinned stamps as being damaged. I think that interest in Canadian perfins has really grown over the years. I rarely find any perfins in Cdn. mixes or collections other than the most common CPR, CNR, etc.. yet still manage to find perfins from Great Britain or Germany and other countries on a fairly regular basis.
Rick
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Jan 10, 2014 22:18:04 GMT
I have tried that but its rather difficult still.I haven't spent a lot of time in this it's still rather new to me and adds an interesting sub-collection with it's own book.The most expensive (i imagine) is a bluenose I paid $20 ish for.
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lokos
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Inactive
Ontario, Canada
Posts: 167
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Post by lokos on Jan 10, 2014 22:37:45 GMT
oops, you replied while I was editing my last post.
Well if the perfin bug has a hold of you and you end up expanding your perfin interest to other countries wait until you see the U.S. catalog. Mine takes up a 3 1/2 inch binder.
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lokos
Member
Inactive
Ontario, Canada
Posts: 167
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Post by lokos on Jan 10, 2014 23:18:31 GMT
I really like this ideal, its one I've been toying with for my US perfin collection. At the moment everything is just kept in manilla stock pages. Mostly I see perfin collectors suggesting the preprinted black box pages that you hinge the front of the stamps to and I just couldn't bring myself to do that. Guess I'm not enough of a die hard perfin collector for that. The only thing holding me back from your approach is the cost involved for the number of stock pages needed.
Rick
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