beezy07
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wondering if I should focus on collecting in just one certain area for now....hmmmm.. 🤔
Posts: 43
What I collect: Anything that catches my eye!
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Post by beezy07 on Sept 22, 2018 18:40:38 GMT
Anyone have any advice about stamps on paper? When they should come off or stay on? I've been told the ones with dates should stay on. If so what about the ones with no date and just stick to a piece of paper? If it has a RIP in it should it stay on or is it no good? Thanks
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Post by feebletodix on Sept 23, 2018 9:59:10 GMT
Beezy, a few thoughts on soaking.
Some early colours are water soluble and run, they are few in number mostly commonwealth.
In recent times various new glues have been used and they do not soak off easily.
Warm water is essential.
Corners of postcards soak better if you can pull the layers of the card apart, peel them back, be careful.
Hinges and light papers on the back can be removed by laying the stamp on the surface, which helps to reduce the absorbtion by the stamp.
The red ink in seasonal covers very frequently runs, do not mix reds in a general mix. One at a time.
The wife's precious china from the cabinet is not recommended for use as a soaking bowl unless you want cold meals for a week.
Good luck.
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Post by jimwentzell on Sept 23, 2018 10:55:39 GMT
Hi Beezy!
My two cents to add to the above:
Once you determine which stamps you will soak, put them in a large square, plastic-type storage bin. Add fresh warm water while sloshing carefully with your fingers so all surfaces of the stamps get wet and don't bunch up together. Add more water so that you have at least several inches of depth. After maybe ten to thirty minutes your stamps will be floating free of their paper. Only then can you carefully fish out the freed stamps!
I use a cloth towel--paper towels work too--to soak up the wet stamps' water. After a few minutes I take the stamps--again VERY CAREFULLY as wet stamps CAN EASILY RIP OR TEAR! Place them on either half-folded plain copy paper or blotting paper, preferably two sheets thick. Some people use newspapers but I like paper without any ink printed on it. Fold the top half over the bottom and stick the sheets in a book, pressing the book under several other books for added weight. After several; hours (or overnight) your stamps will be nice dry and FLAT! If you have WRINKLED stamps that means you either didn't blot out enough water using the towel, or your paper is not fresh and dry.
If you think you might ever REGRET soaking a stamp, you can always SAVE the piece of paper it came on (or the entire envelope) and blot and press THAT paper or envelope it came from as well. You can always add a bit of another stamp's gum and RE-APPLY the soaked stamp to its original paper or envelope! For stamps where a cancellation needs to be seen entirely, some people cut a large margin around the entire stamp and keep that cancel intact. These stamps are called "on piece" and you could always soak it later, if you change your mind.
Older stamps especially pre-1950 or so, should often be kept on the entire envelope or postcard; it takes a lot of experience to know when to soak and when to keep your "entire." A good rule of thumb is if you have any doubt, DO NOT SOAK IT OFF!
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,215
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Sept 23, 2018 17:55:26 GMT
The red ink in seasonal covers very frequently runs, do not mix reds in a general mix. One at a time. The wife's precious china from the cabinet is not recommended for use as a soaking bowl unless you want cold meals for a week. Very true for coloured envelopes. Keep the stamp in the water with the coloured paper as little as possible, otherwise the stamp's white edges will pick up the colour from the envelope paper. feebletodix 's wife is most forgiving. Choose a bowl that will be dedicated to stamp soaking and do not mix with the others. Use one your wife does not like. I actually use a paint pan (like the ones you use with rollers) when there are a large number of stamps on a big piece of paper. I agree removing stamps from postcards is tricky. Usually it's best to keep the whole postcard. Always check first whether the stamps looks like it is a self-adhesive (you can usually tell because the die-cut is very regular and different from paper perforations). Not all self-adhesive stamps are created equal, and many will not detach when soaked in water, but simply get damaged if you try to pry them off. In such case, I keep them on-piece. If they do detach, then there will often be gum residue on the back. In those instances, I re-attach the stamp on a piece of Lucite envelope and keep it that way. Happy stamping! Xavier.
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tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,385
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Sept 23, 2018 19:18:31 GMT
You can find additional information on soaking stamps in the March - May 2018 issue (V2.3) of the Forum's Newsletter. The article begins on page 22.
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Ryan
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,749
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Sept 23, 2018 19:52:55 GMT
If it has a RIP in it should it stay on or is it no good? Damaged stamps are perfect for practice! You can save up the ugly ones and try soaking them first. That way if your soaking methods aren't perfect yet, who cares if you damage the stamps even more ... Ryan
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Post by dgdecker on Sept 23, 2018 19:53:36 GMT
For me the choice of what do depends on the stamp and what I want to do with it.
as a rule I do not soak 1950 or earlier stamps. I trim and add to collection.
those that I do soak I usually keep for my self and when I have duplicates I keep them to trade.
as mentioned there are modern stamps that will not soak. With these I research a bit to if there are options other than soaking. If not a nice trim job and into the collection that go.
removing hinges depends on age of stamp. Pre 1950 I leave alone. Others depending on that I will soak. If not, with patience I will cut off as much of hinge as possible.
i know some of this can be time consuming. I find that there is not really a “ a one size fits all” solution to removing paper. Like most 5hings I customizze according to my needs.
david
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beezy07
**Member**
Inactive
wondering if I should focus on collecting in just one certain area for now....hmmmm.. 🤔
Posts: 43
What I collect: Anything that catches my eye!
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Post by beezy07 on Sept 25, 2018 8:08:56 GMT
Feebletodix 😂😂 good one! I hope you know how to cook...or order pizza! Lol. Thank you all for the wonderful info and suggestions they do help a lot. However...and I'm not sure how I clear I was in aasking (Probably not very Lol) but how do you determine WHICH stamps to take off the paper if you've already decided they are going to come off or you would like them to. Like example...anything with a paper or envelope and a date...Probably keep on I'm assuming. What's is your take on this or is it just preference?? Thanks again you guys are awesome!!
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Post by feebletodix on Sept 25, 2018 8:42:20 GMT
The truth must come out, I am not married, it was just a humourous comment.
Covers and postcards should be kept whole.
Stamps already cut up 'on piece' with intact readable cancellations should be kept whole, include transit markings and etiquette or service lables
If the piece of paper is foxed or rusty but not the stamp and you want to save the stamp soak it. Most likely though the stamp wil be the source of the foxing.
After that it is whether you want to add the stamp to your collection!
About condition why collect damaged, foxed stamps? Only if it is rare and in which case rarity suggests leave it alone.
Jim made a very wise statement if in any doubt leave it alone!
Post a picture on TSF and those wiser then me can advise you.
This reply was written in haste and I am disappointed in myself for writing it hence it has been shrunk and struck through.
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Post by feebletodix on Sept 26, 2018 10:06:50 GMT
To be rhetorical, why do we soak a stamp, because we want a nice copy to go into the collection. To determine which to take we must first consider the amount of 'want' involved. How much do we want that particular stamp in the collection. As a generalist and without an income to support a bad habit I buy mixed lots. This quickly brought home the quantity of stamps out in the market place already loose. So can we say the first criteria is how available is the 'gem' in your tweezers already soaked off paper. Can you determine the variety without removing it? Next we look at value, is it more valuable like this :- [Moderator note - images have been removed by user and are irretrievable]A nice struck on the nose Latvian stamp cancelled in Lielaiskrogs, 17 10 1932 Or as this as cancel collectors would prefer:- This from Norway, Stridsklev 05 12 1996 Whereas this intact is worth the most and which cover collectors would prefer did not happen:- A New Zealand Pre-stamped cover with additional 4½d postage to Austria where a 2d stamp of $20 value in 1993 was removed. Another reason to soak stamps is bulk when looking for variations. I have done this with a little over 20,000 Wildings and a little under that of Machins. It took weeks and I was glad to be finished. It did mean that I acquired a lot of varieties. To achieve success with this, the hoard does need to be un-picked. Only twice in the last decade have I chanced upon such lots at auction. The GB QV penny reds smelled so bad nobody else bid. In the end it comes down to your own judgement on whether or not to soak.
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beezy07
**Member**
Inactive
wondering if I should focus on collecting in just one certain area for now....hmmmm.. 🤔
Posts: 43
What I collect: Anything that catches my eye!
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Post by beezy07 on Sept 27, 2018 9:34:14 GMT
The truth must come out, I am not married, it was just a humourous comment. Covers and postcards should be kept whole.
Stamps already cut up 'on piece' with intact readable cancellations should be kept whole, include transit markings and etiquette or service lables
If the piece of paper is foxed or rusty but not the stamp and you want to save the stamp soak it. Most likely though the stamp wil be the source of the foxing.
After that it is whether you want to add the stamp to your collection!
About condition why collect damaged, foxed stamps? Only if it is rare and in which case rarity suggests leave it alone.
Jim made a very wise statement if in any doubt leave it alone!
Post a picture on TSF and those wiser then me can advise you.
This reply was written in haste and I am disappointed in myself for writing it hence it has been shrunk and struck through. 😂😂
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,906
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Feb 19, 2019 2:40:46 GMT
stamps on paper that someone apparently glued on with some form of adhesive and then the stamp was peeled off, leaving a glued "paper file" on the back. Any startegies for removing? Anybody tru "Goof-off"? The stamp is 1903 (but not rare or high Cv)...and not even well centered, but I thought I'd ask before declaring it a sacrafice to the stamps dieties.....
It's been soaking for well over an hour with two warm water changes.....
Stanley
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 18, 2019 0:57:38 GMT
When I was a kid, my dad would bring home all the stamps accumulated in his office building to be soaked. After some minor tests in small containers, I decided to use the bathtub. The first try in tepid water went well especially if you wanted 1,000 copies of the current regular issue of the U.S. 3 cent stamp. [Later, I was able to trade bulk quantities of common stamps with others for individual items I sought.] The second time, the water turned red, and I learned to check the colors of the paper backing the stamps to avoid soaking envelope paper that may have water soluble colors. The third time I found out that many foreign stamps had water soluble inks that caused the colors to run giving the stamps an off-color, faded appearance.
At that point, I learned not only to check the paper to which each stamp was affixed but each stamp itself to see whether any of its inks were potentially water soluble. Water solubility was a common security device used by a variety of issuing governments to prevent an uncancelled stamp from being soaked off its paper and being reused. That transition most often occurred when the printing of a country's stamp issues changed from engraving to lithography or typography. Few catalogues provide information on whether the ink will run or not. Most important is to test a similar stamp (you are willing to destroy) from the same country issued in the relevant time frame to see if the special stamp you want to soak may have water soluble ink. If so, do not soak the stamp you want to keep, or be willing for it to fade.
There is nothing wrong with soaking in water, if you are careful. There are a variety of solvents for sale other than water which may be able to loosen or dissolve the glue on a stamp can be separated from the paper backing.
If you soak stamps in water, you can place the soaked stamp on newspaper (that is printed with black ink only which you can test in advance to make sure it will not run) to dry. It is recommended that any excess water be removed when you first place them to dry. Do not put stamps on top of each other or you may have to re-soak because all of the gum did not come off in the wash. That excess glue also is of concern if you try to press them during the first dry as they may stuck to whatever you use to press them.
Sometimes, for a stamp you care about, you can use a moistened "Q-Tip" and, with time, work the envelope paper off its back.
Problems do arise when a stamp was issued without gum (like many of the early issues of the PRC) as anything could have been used to affix it to the mailing piece. Putting two such identical to soak can cause the glue used for one damaging the other stamp.
Yes, there are ways to get a stamp off paper leaving much of the gum intact and ways to add gum and "smooth" it out so that the stamp looks original. My concern is that it is an unfortunate practice today of some to take hinged or badly hinged mint stamps and make them look like "mint, never hinged" stamps. The problem is that this destroys trust in the hobby as such stamps can and are being offered for something they are not and at false prices. I knew a dealer who contracted with a local utility company to buy all of the emptied envelopes that had been used by its customers' to mail in their monthly payments. I was a great idea and I obtained many unusual stamps of the time from him. I day when I went to see what new items he had obtained, he told me he would no longer have any. When I asked why, he said he had been indicted for selling the uncancelled stamps he got as ungumed mint stamps that could be used for mailing.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,906
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 18, 2019 2:12:58 GMT
I have come to accept Mint no gum to mean a used stamp that just missed the cancellation mark ...OR... in the case of numerous stamps I have recently dealt with, mint/unused/never hindged stamps that were poorly stored in a damp area and became a stuck block-o-stamps. very sad If I offer mint no gum, I indicate they should be considered as "used" I do remember as a kid my parents re-using stamps that had not been cancelled.... fortunately statute of limitations has long since passed... and serving notice in the afterlife is I suspect a tough one to pull off. As to soaking- I have not tried newspaper, but have found double ply white unbleached paper towels work quite well, with 1/4" piece of 6" x 10" stainless steel flat bar to keep things "flat" works much better than a stack of tomes
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kasvik
Member
Posts: 607
What I collect: Cancels mostly, especially Sweden Gävle and Lidingö, Switzerland Geneva, Germany Pforzheim
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Post by kasvik on May 19, 2019 22:00:37 GMT
Removing stamps is easy with older glues that are water soluble, and cancelations that were oil based. For that combination water is brilliant.
But how to remove newer stamps, when the glue is not water soluble and the cancelations are? That's a nuisance combination.
The APS recommends Bestine. It’s entertaining stuff, mercifully affordable. But I can't get it to do anything on contemporary glues, and it ruins cancelations.
Anyone have better luck with a different solvent?
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tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,385
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on May 19, 2019 23:18:46 GMT
kasvik, Pure Citrus air freshener is a solvent that I've had success with (see the AP article linked to in this post) and this post provides some examples of modern self-adhesives that I've removed from paper using that approach. It is not a perfect solution, however, as I've recently learned that it dissolves some of the ink from U. S. Scott 2595, the 29 cent Eagle and Shield stamp issued in 1992.
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kasvik
Member
Posts: 607
What I collect: Cancels mostly, especially Sweden Gävle and Lidingö, Switzerland Geneva, Germany Pforzheim
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Post by kasvik on May 20, 2019 3:16:41 GMT
That's hard to top, I hope. Although I would much prefer it simply worked, my mischievous side can't wait to see what orange oil does around here.
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Ryan
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,749
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on May 20, 2019 10:20:00 GMT
I also had bad experiences with d-limonene products ruining the ink on US stamps if they were soaked too long (the only ones I tried during my brief test of such stuff). It especially liked to eat the red ink - I have a couple stamps that look like old badly faded posters that have been in the sun, nothing but blues / yellows / greens left behind. I generally use paint thinner now for soaking self-adhesives which won't come off in water - it isn't infallible but it gets most of my jobs done.
Ryan
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