hrdoktorx
Member 
Posts: 6,588
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Nov 21, 2018 20:38:41 GMT
Well, people have been asking for such a thread, so let's go! Here is my offering, a cover from my late grand-mother's collection. Mailed on 27 May 1958 from Courbevoie-Becon to Asnieres-sur-Seine (the two towns neighbor each other and are north-western suburbs of Paris). My grandmother actually had four such covers, all from the spring of 1958, and all sporting the same 6Fr orange "semeuse" stamp. So likely it was for the death of one of her relatives, although I'm not sure who it could have been.  The crayon marking of "Mexique 169" is because my grandmother used these envelopes to store her duplicates and this one contained the Mexican stamps. |
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator 
Posts: 5,654 
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Nov 21, 2018 21:30:31 GMT
Well, people have been asking for such a thread, so let's go! Here is my offering, a cover from my late grand-mother's collection. Mailed on 27 May 1958 from Courbevoie-Becon to Asnieres-sur-Seine (the two towns neighbor each other and are north-western suburbs of Paris). My grandmother actually had four such covers, all from the spring of 1958, and all sporting the same 6Fr orange "semeuse" stamp. So likely it was for the death of one of her relatives, although I'm not sure who it could have been. Xavier, one of the many things that I like about you is that you do not "let the grass grow under your feet". You are clearly a man of action. Well, all right then. One action, well and swiftly done, deserves another in turn. So, here is the mourning cover which I recently acquired from the Aix market dealer. Switzerland, Scott #83, 25-centime green, definitive stamp of Helvetia design with large numerals. The cover is postmarked 18th August 1890. The year is a little tough to read, but I have guessed 1890 as the stamp was issued in 1882. The cover is not in great condition due to the manner in which it was apparently opened (finger versus letter opener). Too bad as it would have been much nicer otherwise....  |
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,588
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Nov 21, 2018 21:40:38 GMT
Mourning envelopes have fallen out of fashion these days. The last time I saw any used was when I lived in Greifswald, in the former East Germany, and my upstairs neighbor's wife passed away. This was in 2001.
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,705
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Nov 21, 2018 23:39:37 GMT
Mourning envelopes have fallen out of fashion these days. The last time I saw any used was when I lived in Greifswald, in the former East Germany, and my upstairs neighbor's wife passed away. This was in 2001. Xavier hrdoktorxI must be very misinformed about "mourning" stuff. Could you explain (briefly) how one identifies such an envelope ? René |
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tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,263
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Nov 22, 2018 0:43:32 GMT
...Could you explain (briefly) how one identifies such an envelope ? The Mourning Stamps and Covers Club website provides background information on this collecting area. |
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,588
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Nov 22, 2018 7:18:24 GMT
Xavier hrdoktorx I must be very misinformed about "mourning" stuff. Could you explain (briefly) how one identifies such an envelope ? René The envelope will have most, if not all, of its sides, coloured in black, sometimes also the flap sides on the back. |
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Post by feebletodix on Nov 22, 2018 9:15:42 GMT
Let me answer a question from jamesw's thread, yes this is exactly what I was hoping for  |
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Post by jimwentzell on Dec 5, 2018 21:02:03 GMT
Mourning covers....one of my favorite collecting areas!Sadly, I was introduced to them at about age 16 when we received news of my favorite uncle passing away, in 1975. I couldn't figure out how my mother knew, before even opening the letter, that "Onkel Ferdi" had died....... This is what we received in the mail:
 The tell-tale, almost-morbid black border on mourning covers intends to somehow prepare the recipient, ever so starkly, of the impending bad news contained within. My first instincts were to soak the stamps off and add them to my budding collection. I'm sure glad I didn't, as this was the first of many mourning covers I now have. For obvious reasons it's also the one closest to my heart!In honor of the late Ferdinand Compart, the only uncle I had, who DIDN'T collect stamps! Jim Wentzell stampguyaps177-681
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Post by jimwentzell on Dec 6, 2018 14:25:51 GMT
 A Mourning Cover from the UK posted to France, dated March 9, 1870, as far as I can tell. Looks to be mailed to someone at a chateaux (maybe a Poste Restante); I get a headache trying to make out the manuscript! I do like the "insufficiently stamped" marking! Many of the Mourning covers I have are from Great Britain, they seem to be rather plentiful. |
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,654
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Dec 6, 2018 15:57:59 GMT
A Mourning Cover from the UK posted to France, dated March 9, 1870, as far as I can tell. Looks to be mailed to someone at a chateaux (maybe a Poste Restante); I get a headache trying to make out the manuscript! I do like the "insufficiently stamped" marking! Many of the Mourning covers I have are from Great Britain, they seem to be rather plentiful. Nice cover, Jim! I agree that the cursive writing can be a bit tough to decipher. I am not seeing "Poste Restante" in the cursive anywhere, but there does seem to be a small red "PR" in a circle, and I wonder if that could be an indication of Poste Restante. I have no experience in this area, so it is simply an observation and a wild guess. Beyond that, I can make out a town name of "Courseulles-sur-Mer" and the name of "Calvados" in the cursive handwriting, the latter of which is the name of a "département" in the north of France. I hope this may help a little. Edit: Thanks to Allan ( tallanent) for his later post which explains that the small red hand-stamp is of British origin rather than French, and reads "PD" and not "PR" as I had speculated. David ( dgdecker) is right, if you participate in this Forum, you learn something new every day around here. It's a great place to be. Thanks again to you, Allan, for sharing your expertise with the rest of us! |
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Post by tallanent on Dec 6, 2018 17:09:14 GMT
A Mourning Cover from the UK posted to France, dated March 9, 1870, as far as I can tell. Looks to be mailed to someone at a chateaux (maybe a Poste Restante); I get a headache trying to make out the manuscript! I do like the "insufficiently stamped" marking! Many of the Mourning covers I have are from Great Britain, they seem to be rather plentiful. Rate to France - 4d per ¼oz Rate within the UK was per ½oz Thus rate was 8d per ½oz to France ...
This cover probably above the ¼oz limit - thus due additional 4d Red PD in circle stamped below the stamp and erased as this postage no longer cover the postage to destination PD = Paid to Destination Insufficiently Stamped instructional mark added in black Letter sent and postage due added in manuscript ...
Hope this helps ..
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Post by dgdecker on Dec 6, 2018 17:30:59 GMT
This is a most interesting and informative thread,
i knew about mourning covers for ages but never paid much attention to them. I have seen a few popping up when looking around for stamps in my areas of interest.
as I have sent two cards of sympathy this week I wondered if it was custom to send condolences with a mourning cover.
i agree with those who find reading the cursive on covers. I am getting much better at it. My other love next to stamps is genealogy. I have spent many long hours trying to decipher texts in English, French, and German. I have to limit my self to a few hours at a time where online at an archive or at home.
I am amazed at how members of the forum come forward and explained what they see on the cover. I see marks and scribbles that mean nothing to me. I think I need to expand my knowledge just a bit.
I joined this forum because I was impressed at the knowledge contained in the posts. I decision I do not regret.
A big thanks to those who share knowledge that allows my eyes to open to see more that allows me to self educate.
David
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Post by jamesw on Jan 13, 2019 3:36:33 GMT
I'm glad to see this up and running. I've got a bunch, of course, so I'll just pile a few on here This first commemorates the passing of King Edward VII four months before.  Various other Canadians    Spain with war tax  |
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Post by tallanent on Jan 15, 2019 0:26:47 GMT
These envelopes would have also contained a card with a message on them - sent as respect to those who had passed away ...
Penny Postage in the UK started on the 10th January 1840 and remained so until the 31st May 1951 - at which point the postage charge was raised to 1½d
This card mourns the passing of Penny Postage - Age 111 years ...
I have had this for over 30 years and never seen another ...
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Post by jamesw on Jan 15, 2019 3:14:37 GMT
Actually two of the covers I posted above, the 1907 Markham and 1923 Toronto, as well as the 1863 Hamilton stampless shown below, all contain letters written on stationary paper trimmed with black  Here are two other 1923 mourning covers Norwood  and Vineland, which, to your point Allan, does contain a beautiful memorial card (shown front and inside)   |
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Post by jamesw on Feb 3, 2019 3:00:54 GMT
Here's a 1913 German mourning cover, no longer in my collection.  |
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Post by jamesw on Feb 3, 2019 3:22:32 GMT
And here's a folded black trimmed funeral announcement, post marked in Montreal December 24 1877.   After envelopes became more popular, lettersheet use such as this was reduced mainly to printed funeral announcements. The stamp is a small queen SC#35 |
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Post by jimwentzell on Feb 3, 2019 14:41:16 GMT
A Mourning Cover from the Netherlands posted in 1914, to India. This was redirected so many times, I'm surprised any postal official could decipher all the writing! This item was bid on by me, but unfortunately the online auction selling price last month was $32.00, a little more than my snipe!
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Post by jimwentzell on Feb 3, 2019 14:54:45 GMT
 Covers that appeal to multiple collector-themed interests get me going! This 1956 cover from Italy has a vertical pair of the 60 Lire Interpol stamps, and was sent from Bergamo to New Jersey, USA. I picked it up last year for a collector-friend who likes police-related stamps and covers, a not too-common collecting theme. |
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Post by jimwentzell on Feb 3, 2019 15:09:04 GMT
Another Mourning Cover I bid on (and got away, as my snipe was obviously too low) is this QV-era cover from India sent to London. I forgot to check the auction results but I am sure it was way more than the forty dollars I bid. Oh well, someone else is very happy, I hope!  |
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,818
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Oct 27, 2019 18:47:02 GMT
From the same group that brought us the "Flag Over Porch" flow chart and for those that are interested, here is an exhibit published by the Midwest Philatelic Society on the development and use of mourning covers,
Exhibit Outline
I. European Uses
II. United States & Canadian
III. Canadian Uses
IV. Latin American & Caribbean Uses
V. Pacific &Asian Uses
VI. African Uses
VII. Middle Eastern Uses
VIII. Epilogue – Extremes
The Abraham Lincoln mourning cover caught my eye...
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,818
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Oct 27, 2019 18:47:39 GMT
From my own collection, here is a cross-border mourning cover sent from Canada to the USA dated 25 September, 1889 and tied with a 3¢ Small Queen (Scott No.37?)  |
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kasvik
Member
Posts: 542
What I collect: Cancels mostly, especially Sweden Gävle and Lidingö, Switzerland Geneva, Germany Pforzheim
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Post by kasvik on Feb 12, 2020 14:34:14 GMT
Collecting wickedly specialized as I do, I’m dependent on what pops up. I was not looking for mourning covers, but why not?
Now I am trying to comprehend. Is this Victorian-style excess or just sad? Should collecting them be controversial? These two are small, lady covers or envelopes for printed sympathy cards; I’ll never know. The hardest part is figuring why they were sent. There are obvious possibilities, but without an enclosure, it’s hard to be sure.
The first from 1910 is addressed to Mademoiselle Boyd-Smith, Michaelisschule in Hildesheim, Germany, where I guess she might have taught French or English. The second follows her in 1913 to London. Definitely sad. Am I going to keep buying them? I don't know. There is a nice lecture from last year, ‘Mourning Covers and Stamps’ featuring Sergio Lugo. He seems tougher than me.
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,818
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Feb 13, 2020 7:55:35 GMT
In my mind @kasvik I see no controversy or Victorian excesses with collecting Mourning covers or stamps. Instead they are part of Postal History and I have always tried to include examples in my own collections based on the issues or eras I am collecting.
In addition to the earlier shared Midwest Philatelic Society exhibition, apparently there is even a study group for these "final mailings", Mourning Stamps and Covers Club (MSCC) complete with a couple of exhibitions with some rather exceptional covers - what a beautiful tribute from both the perspective of postal history and for the individuals they were intended to honour...
Happy collecting!
PS. I am currently on the look-out for a Mourning Cover for the Portuguese Ceres issue ;-)
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,600
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Feb 15, 2020 3:56:51 GMT
I have fond memories of this subject as back during my "Canadian Period" I had a 8-frame exhibit of strictly Canadian mourning Covers
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,261
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 17, 2022 21:41:42 GMT
Mourning covers have popped up all over the forum in specific country threads, but this thread has been dormant for a while. This turned up today, nice to have 2x halfpenny stamps rather than the more usual penny lilac  Posted in London at 2pm the backstamp shows it arrived in Bristol by 6.45 pm same afternoon . |
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Post by daniel on Oct 14, 2022 14:11:08 GMT
A Mourning Letter and Cover from Buckingham Palace dated 27th February 1952 in response to condolences from a Mrs Leedham in Southport. This, of course, would have related to the death of King George VI on 6th February. The letter is sent on behalf of the King's widow, by then known as Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother. The envelope is postmarked with an Official Paid cancel and a George VI cypher has been added.  |
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