hrdoktorx
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Posts: 6,588
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Feb 11, 2019 21:02:08 GMT
Received today, German South-West Africa #2:
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,588
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Mar 4, 2019 20:35:55 GMT
Today's arrival, MiNr. 29A:
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Post by dgdecker on Mar 6, 2019 7:44:57 GMT
Received today, German South-West Africa #2:... A nice copy, I just had a copy arrive a few days ago. Mine does not look as good as yours. Green seems to be lighter on mine. And of course I do not have the great German text with the stamp details. Good luck on further hunting. david
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,588
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Mar 7, 2020 6:17:28 GMT
Received on approval this week, this stamp (MiNr. Ia) from German South-West Africa, the 25 pfennig orange from the first stamp series, issued in 1897, but not really circulated. The price asked (698 Euros) is such that, if I buy it, it would be the most I ever paid for a single stamp (though I can pay in five installments to spread the pain), so I'm not yet convinced. A few years ago, I let go the stamp of the same denomination for the second series (where the overprint has a no hyphen between "Südwest" and "Afrika"), for which I was asked 225 Euros which I could not afford at the time. It's not out of reach now, but still pretty stiff, so I'm open to your opinions.
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Mar 7, 2020 9:17:27 GMT
Hi, Xavier ( hrdoktorx )! Thanks for your interesting post. Ah yes, to buy or not to buy, that is the question. I think that the stamp in question is beautiful, but I think the price is high. I have no special expertise in this area, but for me, if I were going to pay €698 for a single stamp, I would need to convince myself that this is an exceptional copy, and that I believe that I will never see another as nice as this one. I know that I am an old fuss-budget when it comes to condition, especially centering. Perhaps too much so. I have looked through the introductory section in the Scott Catalogue, and it shows from a centering point of view how stamps are graded. Looking at their illustrations, it is not so easy to find stamps in VF and XF grades. Based on what I have read there, most dealers and collectors overstate the grade of their stamps. They still quote the value listed in the catalogue even when it is clear that what they have is not what they claim. Scott further states all of their values are for stamps in VF condition, and that value drops precipitously for stamps in less than VF condition. So, to my thinking, just looking at the centering of the example, it grades F-VF, being centered low and to the right. When I looked up the stamp in the 2008 Scott Classic Specialized Catalogue, German South West Africa - Sc 5, it shows a CV of $575 in mint never-hinged condition ($190 mint hinged). Because the centering is not VF or better, personally, I would look for a better example than this one. Having said all that, I also know for truly scarce items, there may be limits on condition, and perhaps a true VF or better example simply doesn’t exist or would fetch an even higher price than the €698. You probably have a better idea about that than I do. Me, I like “eye candy” when it comes to my stamps, and even though this is a beautiful and uncommon stamp, I would not be willing to buy it at the stated price. Then again, that’s just me. If you do still buy it, I wouldn’t blame you, as that is the prerogative of each of us as individual collectors. We get to decide for ourselves what is most important to us, accepting the fact that we are probably no two exactly alike. That’s the blessing and the curse of collecting and of life. Best of luck, whatever you decide! I had fun voicing my opinion, so thanks for asking.
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nikhil
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Working on Australia, GDR, Japan
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What I collect: I collect WW. Looking for early issues.
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Post by nikhil on Mar 7, 2020 9:31:27 GMT
hrdoktorx, do check this out- same stamp but at 1/3 the cost. But this one could be regummed according to the description - link Also the centering is almost the same like the copy you show.
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Post by clivel on Mar 7, 2020 15:31:18 GMT
That does seem rather overpriced to me - the South African Colour Catalogue lists the stamp as MNH R5000 (€280) and Mint R2000 (€115), so you would be paying significantly over catalogue price. You could consider trying a reputable South African based dealer for the stamp. Clive
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
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Post by salentin on Mar 7, 2020 18:22:46 GMT
The stamp is offered by a german dealer.The stamp market in Germany is very different from that in the US. Centering is of much less importance in Germany,than in the US.Something like grading is practically unknown. The centering of the shown stamp is O.K. by german standards. However wether a stamp is hinged or never hinged is of big imprortance.In this case never hinged is valued about three times a high as mint,hinged.A stamp with two or multiple hinges is even cheaper. A regummed stamp (I guess possibly regummed,means that it is) is valued the same as a no-gum stamp,at 50 % of a hinged one at best.Bearing this in mind a regummed version of a € 700.- stamp would be about € 115.-. And it would be diffificult to find a buyer for a regummed stamp in Germany at all.So stamps like that are often sold abroad. Another very important point is expertising.For a stamp like that,an expertise is a must. It should be a recent expertise by a recognized expert. If this all comes together,a price not far below Michel cat.-value should be expected.
I personally are no gum fanatic.So I would prefere a hinged stamp.But in my case it is very much a question of money or the lack of it.
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hrdoktorx
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Posts: 6,588
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Mar 8, 2020 6:52:35 GMT
Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. They certainly do help in my decision process. As salentin certainly noticed, but I forgot to mention in the description, the card does say "geprüft" (proofed) and the stamp does come accompanied with an authenticity certificate. I would not even entertain the sale without it, for sure.
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mikeclevenger
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What I collect: Ohio Tax Stamps, Ohio & Georgia Revenues, US Revenues, US FDC's, & Germany Classics
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Post by mikeclevenger on Mar 8, 2020 10:47:25 GMT
You could consider trying a reputable South African based dealer for the stamp. Clive These two stamps loo too good to be true. They are decent centering for a German stamp, but too cheap to be real. My guess is fake overprints.
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mikeclevenger
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What I collect: Ohio Tax Stamps, Ohio & Georgia Revenues, US Revenues, US FDC's, & Germany Classics
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Post by mikeclevenger on Mar 8, 2020 11:04:43 GMT
Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. They certainly do help in my decision process. As salentin certainly noticed, but I forgot to mention in the description, the card does say "geprüft" (proofed) and the stamp does come accompanied with an authenticity certificate. I would not even entertain the sale without it, for sure. These are hard to find stamps, with an authentic overprint. The certificate is the most important thing on this stamp. The centering is not that bad for a German stamp, they are hard to find perfectly centered and even harder to find a perfectly centered stamp with an overprint.
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Post by clivel on Mar 9, 2020 1:39:46 GMT
These two stamps loo too good to be true. They are decent centering for a German stamp, but too cheap to be real. My guess is fake overprints. Actually I think that given the catalogue value, these two stamps are reasonably priced, not a bargain, and certainly not too cheap. The South Africa Colour Catalogue lists the two together at about €220 (current exchange rate).
Deverell / Macgregor are asking about €145 for the two which is 65% of catalogue. Given that they offer a full refund, hrdoktorx would save a considerable sum with these two stamps even after paying for a BPP certificate, which depending on Michel catalogue value would probably run for less than €50 per stamp. As for centring, as salentin has already pointed out, very little emphasis is placed on centring outside of North America. Clive
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hrdoktorx
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Posts: 6,588
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Mar 9, 2020 21:08:08 GMT
Thanks again to all who expressed their opinions. In the end, I let reason win over passion and will be returning the stamp. This was still way above my normal max budget and I'd rather spend that kind of money somewhere else (or, more precisely, my wife has spent the money somewhere else).
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Mar 9, 2020 21:54:03 GMT
Xavier ( hrdoktorx), I just wanted to thank you again for starting this thread and giving several of us the chance to offer our opinions. I enjoy learning new things, so wanted to mention what I picked up from this discussion: - I always had the impression that the whole "mint never-hinged" craze started in Germany, but I had never heard that centering was considered not very important there
- Likewise, I had also never heard that centering was a characteristic of stamp condition only really valued in North America
- I want to acknowledge that Mike's point (mikeclevenger) is well taken: forged overprints seem like a very real possibility with stamps like these, so having a valid expertizing certificate from a respected source would be considered part of the value, and by extension, the price. I had not given that aspect the thought it deserved when I wrote my original response.
Part of me is sorry that you did not get the stamp, Xavier, but I understand that sometimes other factors in life influence our decisions in this area. In any case, thank you very much for sharing the image of this prized stamp with us, and thanks for the opportunity to learn some things about our hobby that I had not known before.
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Post by clivel on Mar 10, 2020 6:47:54 GMT
- I always had the impression that the whole "mint never-hinged" craze started in Germany, but I had never heard that centering was considered not very important there
- Likewise, I had also never heard that centering was a characteristic of stamp condition only really valued in North America
Although centring may not carry the same weight outside of North America, it isn't always completely ignored either. Aesthetics do play a part - given the choice I expect that most collectors would take a nicely centred example over a poorly centred stamp, and all else being equal might even pay a premium for it. And on the rare occasion it is reflected in the catalogue price. For example the Stanley Gibbons listing for the 1923 Palestine Mandate postage dues which are notoriously poorly centred, such as the 13 Milliem steel blue below includes the footnote: "perfectly centred and perforated stamps of this issue are worth considerably more than the above prices"
It is interesting how regional differences and traditions have developed to give importance to diverse factors. For example Union of South Africa stamps are collected in bilingual pairs - which makes sense as the stamps were issued in two different languages, however, other than perhaps for aesthetics here seems to be no rational reason for horizontal pairs to command a significant premium over vertical pairs.
As for the MNH or bust club, I must admit to being a former member, however I soon fell off that particular bandwagon. That being said, being a mainly British Empire collector, for post George VI I do still try to obtain MNH as most stamps were issued in sufficient quantities for these to be fairly commonplace. But prior to GVI, I will no longer pay a premium for MNH as I suspect that a significant percentage have been re-gummed. I suspect that modern tools such as the airbrush make this easy to do and hard if not impossible to detect.
It would be interesting to explore some of these regional "fetishes", and the reason for their popularity amongst certain collecting communities and not others, perhaps someone should start a new thread.
Clive
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mikeclevenger
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What I collect: Ohio Tax Stamps, Ohio & Georgia Revenues, US Revenues, US FDC's, & Germany Classics
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Post by mikeclevenger on Mar 10, 2020 9:16:30 GMT
Thanks again to all who expressed their opinions. In the end, I let reason win over passion and will be returning the stamp. This was still way above my normal max budget and I'd rather spend that kind of money somewhere else (or, more precisely, my wife has spent the money somewhere else). Hey, I see that my wife isn't the only one who spends their husbands stamp budgets! LOL.
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tobben63
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Stamp eat sleep repeat
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Post by tobben63 on Mar 10, 2020 11:33:20 GMT
Another lot of German colonial overprinted stamps, with attest. German East Africa
Just a fraction over my monthly stamp budget ....... yeah, right ....
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ausbrasilien
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What I collect: German Area
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Post by ausbrasilien on Nov 19, 2020 0:28:42 GMT
Interesting this discussion about centering. It was never an issue here in Rio, however, I know collectors who would pay overprices for stamps clearly out of center...
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