hrdoktorx
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What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Mar 28, 2019 23:20:24 GMT
Today's arrival, Hamburg Michel Nr. 21:  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 23:21:18 GMT
Hamburg No 1 - a dangerous stamp to collect?
The designers of the first 1859 stamp did the forgers a great favor, they repeated the same design in 1864 First one should know the key features of the genuine vs. a forgery. (not all traits apply to every genuine stamp)
1. Dot at the bottom of the “H”.
2. Often a break in the scroll.
3. The top of the “M” has a dot which may look attached or be separated.
4. The left side of the “M” is separated from the foot.
5. The top of the cross is broken
6. A tiny dot after the “G”
7. The tip of the star almost touches the tower.
8. The top serif of the “L” is separated.
9. Separation in the line, dot & ornament.
10. The bottom of the “E” is broken
11. Separation between the line and scroll.
12. Top of the “T” is broken
13. Dots in the line.
14. Small protrusion from the base of the “1” That takes care of the real forgeries that lack almost all these traits as shown below; Click on the thumbnails below for the full image
 
The real issue is the 1864 stamp faked to become an 1859 stamp
I trimmed the perfs and a perfect No 1 emerges
I just went from a $10 stamp to a $600 one that any collector would eagerly pay $100+.
I have seen dozens of these and surely hundreds maybe thousands of collectors have been victims.
So how to avoid this? A no 1 requires that all 4 sides have at least 1.5mm margins
Also the cancel may be a sign, I believe the common thick bar cancel above may not have been in use in 1859. A more regular postmark and a wavy blue cancel was used. Clean cut edges may be a sign.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 13:02:42 GMT
A posting of Genuine features of the first stamps may be helpful as there are lots of forgeries 1859 Mi 2 applies to Mi 11 also
Features to look for in the genuine.
1. Dot inside the bottom of the “A”
1a. Small dot or dash
2. A large dot only present on a few examples – adds value
3. Flat bottom of “U”.
4. Line above the “U R”
5. Bottom of “R” extends and ends in a dot.
5a. Top of cross does not touch the scroll frame.
6. Small dot
7. Foot of “M” separated from the vertical stroke.
8. Right top of “T” broken.
9. Left foot of “T” broken
9a. Small dot just below left bottom of “S”.
10. Left line not connected to scroll.
11. Small dot
12. Line inside the “1”. May be very large or hardly noticeable.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 13:04:05 GMT
1859 Mi 3 & Mi 13
 Features to look for in the genuine. These are not all present in every stamp
1. 2 small dots
2. Top of “B” is broken.
3. Small dot between “B & U”.
4. Small projection top of “U” left.
5. Small projection on left side of star.
6. Small dash above “g”.
7. Dot before first “l”
8. Bulge inside top of “S” 8, Small dot 10. Break in the frame
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stainlessb
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Posts: 4,642
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 11, 2020 20:34:25 GMT
I'm posting here as Hamburg apparently purchased Bergedorf in 1867  |
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rex
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Post by rex on Nov 25, 2020 16:24:16 GMT
I ask the TSF friends for help about these Hamburg stamps, of which I cannot find reference and value in any catalog. I was only able to understand that they are local emissions.  
Sorry for the images not exactly in focus. Thanks in advance. |
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 25, 2020 16:59:05 GMT
rexI have looked through my German States stamps and Michel Deutschland-Spezial (1999) and do not find anything close in Hamburg and only a slight resemblance to Thurn & Taxis (2nd page) I do notice the uniformity of size of all the stamps, which for early imperforate makes me wonder if these are not reproductions (but of what I do not know) There are others on the forum which much much great knowledge of the German State sthan I, so hopefully someone will chime in.
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Post by daniel on Nov 25, 2020 18:54:21 GMT
rex, these are local messenger institute stamps of a very dubious nature. Seemingly aimed at collectors, there are many forgeries. You need a Dieks handbook, 'Die Marken der Hamburger Boten-Institute' by Jochen Dieks 2002. Loads of information on Stampboards: stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=48946
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 25, 2020 22:23:58 GMT
Michel Privatepostmarken Spezial Katalog has the following, but only lists black as colors   |
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rex
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Post by rex on Nov 26, 2020 9:48:43 GMT
They should be private local emissions, for now this is what I have learned, it is no small thing.
I really thank everyone for your time and interest.
Thank you all.
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,617
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Post by salentin on Jul 23, 2023 8:02:48 GMT
The last one of my recent purchase:
Issued Jan.1st,1859.
As the later (1864) perforated series of these stamps are often forged to "become" the imperforated series by cutting off the perforation,all stamps of the first (imerforated) series must have 1.5 mm selvage combined top and bottom,or 3.2 mm left and right combined.
Stamps with seperation-lines on the left and the right,value double.
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,617
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Post by salentin on Jul 24, 2023 7:26:01 GMT
My only other stamp of the 1859 imperforated issue:
Selvages on the right and left do not reach the asked minimum of 32 mm. Top and bottom just are the required 15 mm. However the 7 Schilling is not very likely to be cut from the perforated issue of 1864, as the perforated version values nearly four times that of the imperforated one. But of course you never know,if this also was the case 100 or 150 years ago !
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,617
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Post by salentin on Jul 27, 2023 11:56:15 GMT
I am just scanning my thematic collection "classical stamps" (up till around the 1870th) one by one. To look at them enlarged on the screen is so much more convenient,than to use magnifiers. German states are done,so I can show all of my (few) Hamburgers:
Issued Feb.29th,1864. There is a wide variety on colours and tones of this stamp,from dark-violet to bright mauve,grey-green,gray,till turquoise. Total print: 384.192 Danish ring-cancellations are the most common for this stamp.
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,617
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Post by salentin on Jul 28, 2023 9:29:59 GMT
The stamp was re-issued in autumn 1864,now perforated L 13 1/2. More than one million were sold.
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,617
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Post by salentin on Jul 30, 2023 15:46:15 GMT
Issued Aug.26th,1864. All Hamburg stamps were replaced by those of the "Nordeutscher Postbezirk" (North German Confederation) on Jan.1st,1868. There was quite a lot of remainders,what were sold to a stamp-dealer in 1868. A good share of those remainders were not gummed.These are usually around 50 % cheaper than gummed stamps, what makes many Hamburg stamps quite affordable. Michel-prices of the perforated stamps are for poorly centered specimen with defective perforations.
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,617
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Post by salentin on Aug 1, 2023 11:45:02 GMT
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,617
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Post by salentin on Aug 3, 2023 9:35:30 GMT
Issued Aug.26th,1864. Affordable in mint,even never hinged condition. Genuinely used a rarity.
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,617
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Post by salentin on Aug 6, 2023 8:09:06 GMT
Issued April 4th,1866. (Michel no.21)
hrdoktorx had shown that stamp before,but one with a row-counter figure on the left selvage, what doubles the value of the stamp.
Issued June 27th,1866. (Michel no.20)
Both stamps are rouletted.
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Aug 6, 2023 14:10:05 GMT
Issued June 27th,1866. (Michel no.20)
Both stamps are rouletted.
Curious, the rouletting was done by hand (the one stamp I can clearly see, the second stamp, top and bottom, but the sides almost look cut (especially right side being into the adjacent stamp. Below is almost my complete inventory of Hamburg  none seem to be rouletted  |
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,617
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Post by salentin on Aug 9, 2023 7:52:12 GMT
I´m not sure about the rouletting.But the stamps were printed at the government printing in Berlin and show the usual rouletting found on stamps of Prussia at the time.So,I believe they were machine-applied. Your 2 1/2 Schilling imperforated stamp (bottom row,middle) is of a uncommon yellowish green. Don´t know,what to think about it.
Here now my last "Hamburger",the last stamp-issue of Hamburg,before they were replaced by stamps of the Norddeutscher Postbezirk (North-German Confederation) on Jan.1st,1868:
Issued May 5th,1867.
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,617
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Post by salentin on Aug 11, 2023 8:41:43 GMT
The stamp above was the last one issued by the state of Hamburg. But there are two more stamps,issued by the Norddeutscher Postbezirk, what were valid for local letters within Hamburg. Face was 1/2 Schilling (Hamburg currency).
Issued Jan.1st.1868,rouletted.
Re-issued in June 1869,now perforated.
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hrdoktorx
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Posts: 6,596
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Nov 16, 2023 22:32:02 GMT
A new arrival today, the 3 schilling ultramarine from Hamburg, all the way back in 1864-65, MiNr. 15a:  |
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none seem to be rouletted 
