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Post by stamphinger on May 11, 2019 16:50:42 GMT
While a long-time collector, I am inexperienced in bidding at auction, but would like to try for a lot or two of mostly used WW stamps to fill in some blank spaces of lower to mid-level valued stamps. I am not seeking specific country collections, but rather lots of material from multiple countries within a geographical area, i.e. Europe, Asia, British Colonies, the Americas etc.
I anticipate that anything I would bid on I would not be on site to examine the lot.
I have several basic questions, but will start with this one:
How accurate is the auction firm's estimated value for a lot? I realize that an answer to this question will vary from auction house to auction house. Still, as a rule of thumb, should it be expected that estimated values will be higher than actual value of stamps in the lot?
Some higher? Much higher?
Thanks
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vikingeck
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Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on May 11, 2019 18:59:37 GMT
I have several basic questions, but will start with this one: How accurate is the auction firm's estimated value for a lot? I realize that an answer to this question will vary from auction house to auction house. Still, as a rule of thumb, should it be expected that estimated values will be higher than actual value of stamps in the lot? Some higher? Much higher? Thanks I’ m afraid I don’t understand your question, perhaps it is the use of the word “value” . Do you mean “price?” Auctions will estimate lots “priced to sell” at a small percentage of catalogue “value”, so the price should be lower than the “value”. an an estimate is an indication of the price the auctioneer judges the lot will fetch when the hammer comes down. Unless two bidder see an item they desperately want, in which case the price can go sky high. Bid within the Auctioneer’s range if you can’t see the item and you will be safe, some you may lose, others you will win at a fair price. for mixed lots of WW stuff there’s lots around so bidding way over the estimate is not sensible unless you know there are some scarce items within. |
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Post by stamphinger on May 11, 2019 20:37:50 GMT
an estimate is an indication of the price the auctioneer judges the lot will fetch when the hammer comes down.
Thanks, for your response vikingeck, sorry my question was unclear, but you have answered it in part. Depending upon the knowledge and experience of the successful bidder and bidding competition, the final price may be higher than the value of the stamps in a lot.
If a bidder cannot see the stamps in a lot to evaluate them he is reliant upon the auctioneers valuation (estimate) for the lot. To rephrase my question then, are auctioneers' estimates generally equal to, or greater than the value (monetary worth) of the stamps in the lot? Should bidders expect auction houses to routinely set an estimate higher in hopes of receiving a higher final price?
SH
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renden
Member
Posts: 9,162 
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on May 11, 2019 20:58:28 GMT
Am not an auction person and I think the prices are too high but I am inexperienced so my say does not count. If I want a stamp I buy from a reputable Company like in Canada I like Deveney and Saskatoon stamp club - Just bargained a Canada 57 from them at 20% the catalog value for a VF and called to bargain and they cut tthe price in two - everyone is selling stamps  René |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on May 11, 2019 21:04:43 GMT
Any auction house that routinely sets an estimates higher than the “monetary Worth” will be out of business in next to no time. They rely on the trust of bidders. Disappointed or aggrieved clients will soon spread the word, estimates should reflect the normal market price and many times will be on the low side attract bids .
They are meant to be a guide so unless I have been able to inspect the material, I’d use them as a bench mark and bid + or - 10% no more.
On the other hand if it is a scarce cover or stamp that I want and which is unlikely to be repeated then I have been known to double the estimate and still lose out!
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jayinok
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Post by jayinok on May 11, 2019 21:19:10 GMT
It's wise to keep an eye on certain firms that tend to have what you like, and after every sale look up their "prices realized" this is the most important clue, as you can pretend to bid and see if you would have won, had you actually bid.
I keep old auction catalogues and either manually write the "prices realized" on many lots or, more often, I insert the prices realized list many auction firms send out with their latest catalogue. For instance, an auction closed in April; their next catalogue shows items to be auctioned in their October catalogue which you might get in August, along with the prices realized for that earlier (April's) items.
Many collectors (myself for instance) or even dealers bid on lots from favorite auction companies due to the usually fair or realistic descriptions, but this comes from years of experience or guidance from seasoned bidders. Some bigger companies may have inconsistent descriptions due to different auction lot describers being "on duty" when they write up lot descriptions. This was sometimes the case with Regency-Superior, a major US auction firm that went bankrupt recently.
Jay
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renden
Member
Posts: 9,162
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on May 11, 2019 21:19:11 GMT
Any auction house that routinely sets an estimates higher than the “monetary Worth” will be out of business in next to no time. They rely on the trust of bidders. Disappointed or aggrieved clients will soon spread the word, estimates should reflect the normal market price and many times will be on the low side attract bids . They are meant to be a guide so unless I have been able to inspect the material, I’d use them as a bench mark and bid + or - 10% no more. On the other hand if it is a scarce cover or stamp that I want and which is unlikely to be repeated then I have been known to double the estimate and still lose out! I bought the majority of my Canada Mint H or not,.... but F-VF...... on Ebay from Canadians and got a bad one 1X only and was refunded promptly. My software will get me to any Scott number on Ebay or (Hipstamp - never impressed me) and I check with people I trust from past buys, including Deveney stamps and Saskatoon stamp club. I did go back on Eb after buying my CANADA #57 (VF) and all I found were Good-Fine samples and at a higher starting price or Buy it now - I like to negotiate, not for a $1 stamp. Some people are terrified of Ebay because they do not know the "seller"....I do for my favorites - I do not buy from the US just because I do not trust the sellers and the fees ($C to $US is horrible + shipping). I bought from Europe, Australia and was very happy The Auctions are a different world.........checked a few and might go back with some expertise advice - This Forum !! René |
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casso
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Post by casso on Nov 30, 2019 4:34:32 GMT
If one is going to buy and sell, ONLY do it in your area of knowledge, and good luck with that.
One must, through knowledge know if an item being sold at Auction is a Collector item or a Re-Seller item.
The offered Buy Price, well that is up to you if you accept or move on to the next Catalog Item.
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stanley64
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Posts: 1,985
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 30, 2019 8:22:16 GMT
Auction house and mail-bid sales have always been a part of my collecting experience. One of my earliest wins was a small, but well written up collection of Canada's Small Queens and as a young collector it offered my everything, covers, cancels, etc. and it formed the basis of a collection that I continue to build on to this day. I find bidding and winning at auction is a great way to add a new collection theme or build on an existing one. Some of the better material is only available at auction, compare the quality of items available at auction with what can be had with on-line sellers, some of it is just top drawer and warrants the premium paid...
Here are a few more of my thoughts and random musings on the subject of bidding or buying at auction:
- All lots should be available for viewing. If you cannot view the material in-person read the lot description fully and if you have questions, ask – reputable auction houses will provide full details and additional photos upon request.
- Auction house estimates are usually fairly accurate as it is their business, but compare it to your own estimate for an item you want. What are you willing to pay, set a limit.
- Start with a low bid and proceed from there, more common material stick to the low end, add the appropriate premium for the less common or rarer items - you know your area of collecting.
- Have a look at previous catalogues and sales for the prices realised and similar items for an idea of current market values.
- Be aware of auction increments, it can help in determining you own bids and could be the difference between winning an item or not.
- Review the payment terms and auction-house premiums as this can be quite high (20% or more in some instances)
- Miscellaneous, mixed lots and collections can be good value especially as dealers cannot compete against individual collectors given that they intend to re-sell and make a profit - this one may be applicable to your situation stamphinger
- Many auction houses allow for an initial bid with the option of +10%, 20% for competitive bidding, and this may make the difference between you winning the lot or not.
- Remember it takes two to make an auction and you are bidding against others, it all depends on how much you are willing to spend on a lot and there are those once-in-a-lifetime opportunities; stories of loans & mortgages for rare items come to mind
Inform yourself and happy bidding!
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mikeclevenger
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What I collect: Ohio Tax Stamps, Ohio & Georgia Revenues, US Revenues, US FDC's, & Germany Classics
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Post by mikeclevenger on Nov 30, 2019 11:36:38 GMT
Some people are terrified of Ebay because they do not know the "seller"....I do for my favorites - I do not buy from the US just because I do not trust the sellers and the fees ($C to $US is horrible + shipping). The Auctions are a different world.........checked a few and might go back with some expertise advice - This Forum !! René Well, just so you know, if you are buying from Ebay and you don't get what you thought you should, you can always get your money back , including shipping. Just so you don't have a hassle with Ebay about it, when you file the return claim, just mark it as "Fake or Forgery" (even if it isn't). Then the first time the seller replies, do not reply to them again, but ask Ebay to make a decision. Ebay will automatically decide in your favor, (because that is what they do when you claim it to be fake), as soon as they do, print the return label. This will stop the seller from being able to argue with Ebay and win the argument. You will then send it back to them and get a full refund.
A customer did this to me. I sold a state revenue stamp for about $25, book on it was over $100, so it was a good deal. The book says it is supposed to be perf 10, and there are no other variations on the perfs for this stamp. I measured it with my Perfotronic 2, and it came our 9.9 perfs. So I measured it manually, and came up with the same thing. I listed it as a perf 9.9, and even had a great big Red "9.9 Perf" written on the picture. He said that his friends in his stamp club, told him it was fake since it wasn't perf 10, so he wanted his money back. I told him that I listed it as perf 9.9 and showed it in the picture and he bought it that way, so I was refusing his return, just on principle. I also told him that the person who wrote the book, may have just checked it quickly and said it was a perf 10. This was the very first time, in 22 years of selling on Ebay, that I had ever refused a return, and it was on principle to me. As soon as I replied the first time, he asked Ebay to make a decision, and they gave him his money back. I called Ebay and asked why - they said it was because he had marked "Fake or Forgery" as the reason for the return. Even though it was a real stamp, I lost the case. Well, when I received the stamp back, it was torn! It wasn't torn when I sent it to him. I tried to ask him about it, but he would never reply to me. Ebay had already refunded his money so I lost one that one.
That is the only time in 22 years that I got screwed over by a buyer though, so not too bad I figure. I have made at least 30,000 transactions over the years and have had a great rtack record - I lost this case, I have only had 5 items broken in shipping ( I sell a LOT of glass too), I only had 3-4 items lost in the mail ( some bought, some sold), and never got screwed over by a seller. Not too bad of a record I figure. So, I continue to use Ebay ever day. I have no stamp shops, no stamp clubs, nothing in Savannah, Ga. So, I have to buy all my stamps on line, or I don't get them.
Have a great day. Mike.
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renden
Member
Posts: 9,162
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Nov 30, 2019 13:59:33 GMT
mikeclevengerThanks for the post and response for a post I did many months ago on Ebay etc. Just to be "straight" with a Georgia, USA, member, I never had a problem with a US seller on some buys because, after all, I live on the border of Maine, have done 5X 6 months in Fort Myers, Fl with my Motorhome, 1X6 in a condo and multiple trips on the East coast of Florida and the Keys and travelled back and forth through many States. Also done the West Coast by Air and in general have had no problems. It is just that I find many items too costly for my $C presently. I tried Delcampe 2 times and found out that the shipping fees were often more costly than the stamp(s) ! Never had a dispute (yet) with Ebay. Now the Canadian sellers sell in US$ and we get the $C equivalent on items and they charge TAX in $C and shipping in C$ - so I check very closely the offers, not to be fooled. René
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