renden
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Post by renden on Nov 6, 2019 12:44:53 GMT
Beryllium Guy stainlessb I have looked for the past 2 days at Type III (N under B) and its details in Maury 2017 - even compared with Y&T - and I get more confused. I am no expert also but try to do my best which is not much right now....that 5c green (and with shades) !!!!! And Type III has not very much explanation in both Maury and Y&T.......a "poinçon" thing (punch ?), which would explain Maury 102, 103,104,105 Type III (N under B) Sorry ! René
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Post by feebletodix on Nov 6, 2019 16:43:52 GMT
Harper-Collins translate poincon to mean 'hallmark'. Could this be a usage of the word to mean the printers mark 'JA Sage'
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 6, 2019 18:17:46 GMT
Harper-Collins translate poincon to mean 'hallmark'. Could this be a usage of the word to mean the printers mark 'JA Sage' poinçon = hallmark (J A SAGE INV) - this makes sense feebletodix - thanks ! will copy stainlessbRené
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 6, 2019 18:32:25 GMT
Yes, it does make more sense.
One less French word to wrestle with!
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 7, 2019 15:59:58 GMT
I a seller regarding a bright green "Type I" 5c as to how he was determining it was a Type I and not a Type III
Below is his answer-
Thanks for your inquiry. The stamps in question is SC 67 as it is green on greenish color paper. SC 105 is yellow green, on regular paper.
Has anyone seen anything supporting this in any of the catalogues? Maury simply calls out vert and vert fonce (green and dark green) no mention of greenish paper
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 7, 2019 17:29:50 GMT
Stan stainlessbOn the Type I 5c both Maury and Y&T number it # 64 = green/vert On same Type 1 5c Scott Classic Specialized numbers it # 67 = green grnsh - I have not found explanation on the italic grnshType 1 is N under B (Type III also)On Type 1 5c yel grn, Scott numbers it #105 On same 5c yel grn, both Maury and Y&T give it a Type III and numbers it #102 Have not seen a mention of greenish paper anywhere René
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 7, 2019 21:03:47 GMT
I'm wondering if the greenish is being interpreted as meaning "on greenish paper), but the fact that only Scott seems to mention (and they also seem to leave out a lot...) makes me wonder... I'd almost need to see a stamp with a clear (and early postdate....)
I keep hoping someone will post side by side photos/scans on vert and vert fonce, especially for a denomiation other than the 5 c (since it is th eonly one which seems to have the later Type III
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lucmarphil
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Post by lucmarphil on Nov 8, 2019 15:23:45 GMT
Harper-Collins translate poincon to mean 'hallmark'. Could this be a usage of the word to mean the printers mark 'JA Sage' poinçon = hallmark (J A SAGE INV) - this makes sense feebletodix - thanks ! will copy stainlessb René The problem with Google and dictionaries is that they are not "Philatelic" references So poinçon can indeed mean a seal or hallmark in general terms or "punch" which sometimes comes up on German sites Originally poinçon referred to the original die. "Matrice" also refers to the printing dies As for the questions on the Sage types & colors, I will add some notes later BTW if you would like a reasonable pdf. chart of translations to French, German, Spanish send me a PM - it still needs additions
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 8, 2019 16:04:48 GMT
Thanks Luc lucmarphil for your previous post - have already sent a PM René
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Beryllium Guy
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Nov 8, 2019 23:10:08 GMT
Hi, Rene ( renden) and Stan ( stainlessb): I haven't taken the time to check in one of the Scott catalogues, but I can confirm that the listing of "green grnsh" does indeed mean "green image on greenish paper". At the beginning of each Scott catalogue, there are quite a few pages of explanations of how stamps are graded, how to use the listings, etc. I am guessing that your question is probably definitively answered somewhere in that section, but I admit that I have not checked anytime lately. In this case, I just know from many years of using their catalogues and their albums that your interpretations are correct. I hope this helps. -Chris
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 9, 2019 1:15:31 GMT
Hi, Rene ( renden ) and Stan ( stainlessb ): I haven't taken the time to check in one of the Scott catalogues, but I can confirm that the listing of "green grnsh" does indeed mean "green image on greenish paper". Thanks Chris Beryllium Guy for your wisdom. I did read the beginning of Scott catalog to find exactly what you were referring to. If there is a color in italic besides the noted color of a stamp, it does refer to the color of the paper, if it is not white. Scott works like this and other catalogs work their own way to explain the same stamp. For FRANCE stamps, Maury and Y&T seem to be closer in the information content than Scott.........catalogs are catalogs !! Cheers to you ! René
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 9, 2019 1:49:32 GMT
Here's some side by side- from left tp right, N under B, N under B, and then N under U for both 3rd stamp and horizonat; pair Stamp #1 is not in great shape (and a bath may help on the margins), but wheter it is Type I or III... but leaning towards 'on greenish" Stamp #2 appears to be on "greenish" paper... which would make me lean toward Type I vert/... vertish The Type II both appear to be Type IIB but #3 seems to have 'whiter" paper than the pair (which almost looks to haver a yellowish cast).. and color seems slightly darker
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 9, 2019 17:40:45 GMT
my eyes are tired of various shades of green (and I have small lots of 45 and 8 more coming.... at which point everybody gets a bath!) so here's something different to contemplate...
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 12, 2019 1:48:06 GMT
Page layout for Sage Type II including all the various shades. The color description and Yverty # have not been corrected- more set on seeing if I could fit on a single page too many stamps? thoughts and comments most welcome I was going to try and elaborate on Type IIA and Type IIB, but i think one could write a not-so-short article on the topic as it is not consistent between denominations
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 13, 2019 20:37:37 GMT
Just purchased Catalogue encyclopédique: MARIANNE - brun, storch, françon - 1849 / 1900 on Delcampe (having a little difficulty navigating making payment)
Hopefully this will shed some additional light on things
Yippee!!
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 13, 2019 21:05:59 GMT
Just purchased Catalogue encyclopédique: MARIANNE - brun, storch, françon - 1849 / 1900 on Delcampe
Yippee!!
Relentless !!
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 13, 2019 21:09:44 GMT
I am on a mission!!
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 13, 2019 21:10:40 GMT
I am on a mission!!
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 14, 2019 1:47:48 GMT
Revision of page (take 3... ) I previously missed one of the color varieties so the horizontal pair had to go.. printed on standard copy paper and individual information is not correct place holders as I slowly anchor fields... and it's cropped a bit 'off' To further differentiate I will likely place color under # and add year of printing after.... or too busy? and I am thinking about composing a page to be opposite (when open) to explain the sub-types in more detail, as well as offer some history behind the changes and... this could on forever
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 19, 2019 2:06:49 GMT
Todays arrivals, plus I got my digital camera for my scope! works great just need to learn how to use the software, and I may look for a mechanical stage for the scope which should work a bit better than my fingers prodding the stamp around but I have been put on notice that i need to do some "organizer" as things are getting out of control.... my wife says it looks like a crazy persons room... so first task of my next day off I am also waiting for more lots to arrive (and then I will stop... honest... ) until Marianne arrives so I have what i hope is an assemblage of the best references
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 19, 2019 13:56:05 GMT
Stan stainlessb - you sure like those green ones !! René
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 19, 2019 13:59:59 GMT
with 14 listed shades it takes quite a large "study" group!
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renden
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Post by renden on Nov 19, 2019 14:59:01 GMT
with 14 listed shades it takes quite a large "study" group! and 14 pairs of "eyes" !! R
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jan 3, 2020 16:40:30 GMT
I believe this to be a Type IIB Yvert # 75IIB d - the date reduces the nuance/shades to 4 choices and this appears to me to be a gray-green on light green. i am posting more to see if anyone can tell me a bit more about the postmark If it is July 8, 1879 Paris, what is the (what appears to me ) B with a dot under to the right of the 8? And under the day/month (and above year) any ideas ?
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Jan 3, 2020 20:23:36 GMT
I'd say that it is the 7th Juin (June) 1879 and the time 7AM? Could that "8E." for huitieme (spelling French is terrible)?
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tomiseksj
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Post by tomiseksj on Jan 3, 2020 20:28:03 GMT
The letters between the hour/day and year are "JUIN" -- I believe the postmark is dated June 7, 1879. These images, pulled from the PhilaMercury site, show the day is shown to the right of the vertical line.
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jan 3, 2020 20:44:54 GMT
Thanks both! Now that you say JUIN it's clear as day.... I was seeing the first letter as maybe a P and then maybe a U and an N.... but PUN seemed to make no sense whatsoever ....
so huitieme... meaning the eight(h) hour? and E in the evening?
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Jan 3, 2020 21:26:11 GMT
Thanks both! Now that you say JUIN it's clear as day.... I was seeing the first letter as maybe a P and then maybe a U and an N.... but PUN seemed to make no sense whatsoever .... so huitieme... meaning the eight(h) hour? and E in the evening? No, I'd say it is the 8th day at 7AM.
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tomiseksj
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Post by tomiseksj on Jan 3, 2020 22:06:23 GMT
Stan, This August 27th postmark, taken from the image you posted above on November 18th, confirms that the day appears to the right of the vertical line. I wish I could say with certainty what the "E" represented but I can't. All of the similar postmarks I've seen today only have the E with either a period, dash or nothing beneath it.
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hrdoktorx
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Post by hrdoktorx on Sept 24, 2020 20:43:20 GMT
Not officially one of the 2020 "Trésors de la Philatélie" blocks but given only to the first few thousand orders, this special block re-issue of the Sage Type I stamp:
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