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Post by jamesw on Nov 11, 2019 1:39:32 GMT
Picked this cover up today at the Old Book and Paper Show in Toronto. There's a nice lady there who always remembers me and has something to show me, so I feel obligated! But this is a nice folded letter cover (no contents) dated 1850 sporting a penny red.  Now I don't know much about Brit postal markings, as I've proven in the past. This letter was sent to the city of Edinburgh from a location with a similar name. Edinbainah? Edinbane?. There does seem to be a partial Glasgow cancel on the back, in red, over the senders name and location. Also a smudged black cancel with no date. So see what you think. |
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zipper
Member 
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on Nov 11, 2019 3:03:44 GMT
I love the Penny Reds on blue paper.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Nov 11, 2019 10:26:34 GMT
The blue was due to Potassium Prussate in the ink which toned the paper blue in the wetting process.Areas with less ink like the head can appear as a white ghost on the back of the stamp the so called "Ivory Head" variety .  Lousy damaged stamp but a cracker of an Ivory Head! |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Nov 11, 2019 10:34:13 GMT
I had never seen anything like this before so I bought it at Charing Cross Market London for £1 last month. It is a penny red cover from 1842, Largs Scotland. The stamp has been lost (Washed off? or kept in a damp place for a long time) The cover has a clear blued imprint of where the stamp once was !!  |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Nov 11, 2019 11:09:43 GMT
jamesw , some small bits of detective work on your cover. The boxed numeral cancel, I can’t quite figure it seems to be “15- “. possibly 159 which is Glasgow and ties with the partial red date stamp on the back. So to begin its journey . The family of Stirling lived at a large estate called EDINBARNET, near the town of Clydebank . The nearest village is DUNTOCHER which was a Roman fort on the Antonine Wall from 100 AD ! It had no post office but a small receiving office with the very smudged circular undated handstamp . could receive mail to pass on to a regular office where the stamp would be cancelled ie GLASGOW . The type of handstamp for DUNTOCHER is called a SCOTS LOCAL So from Mrs Stirling of EDINBARNET to DUNTOCHER to GLASGOW to Robert Wilson Esquire at the Royal Bank of Scotland EDINBURGH.
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Post by jamesw on Nov 11, 2019 22:50:49 GMT
Wowzers! Thanks vikingeck. A great piece of postal history detective work. Interesting about the blueing as well.
And a thanks to duncanvr for some offsite research behind the scenes.
Goes to show what a great forum this is!
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susiecc
Member
Posts: 63
What I collect: General US, Precancels, Monaco, India Feudatory States, the World!!
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Post by susiecc on Feb 14, 2020 16:01:44 GMT
Hi. I was going through some of the forums older posts and came upon this thread. I also have an 1850 Penny Red. It has a postmark of Birmingham and another postmark I can't decipher. Do any of you recognize it or can make out what it says? I do see it says 1850 at the bottom, but the rest, I don't know. It kind of looks like a K, a crown, and a dog or a weird H at the top. I don't recognize the middle text. Any help here? susiecc  |
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,906
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Feb 14, 2020 16:21:26 GMT
i believe it is the receiving postmark, April 18, `1850 and looks similar to postmarks from :London Chief Office and the initials were that of the stamper
however others have far more experience in these things, so we will wait for a 2nd "aye" on this 
here's a link you may find helpful link |
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susiecc
Member
Posts: 63
What I collect: General US, Precancels, Monaco, India Feudatory States, the World!!
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Post by susiecc on Feb 14, 2020 17:14:37 GMT
Thank you for the link. I responded before but it doesn't look like it went through. It's going to take me a while to get through all that info, but, it is absolutely appreciated. :-)
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Feb 14, 2020 22:43:45 GMT
I confirm the red mark is an arrival mark in London, the written address just says Westminster , which is right at the centre of London.
the middle line is indeed April 18 one day after mailing in Birmingham. It reads 18 AP 18 , why they needed the number twice I don’t know but they apparently did .
The code letters KH refer to a particular postal clerk on duty
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susiecc
Member
Posts: 63
What I collect: General US, Precancels, Monaco, India Feudatory States, the World!!
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Post by susiecc on Feb 15, 2020 14:04:29 GMT
Wow! Thank you so much! Yes, I knew it said Westminster. I also though the middle line said something about a particular building.
This is very helpful. So glad I found this thread.
susiecc
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Feb 15, 2020 22:08:17 GMT
The Manchester buildings were demolished to build the Underground Westminster Tube station , but in the early 1800s had offices of the East India company till 1841
Charles Dickens has Nicholas Nickleby clerking in the Manchester Buildings in the novel.
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susiecc
Member
Posts: 63
What I collect: General US, Precancels, Monaco, India Feudatory States, the World!!
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Post by susiecc on Feb 16, 2020 14:11:24 GMT
A bit more history. This is great and clears up another mystery of the envelope. Thank you! Now, I'll have to go back and read Dickens again.
susiecc
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,216 
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Post by rex on May 20, 2020 16:40:09 GMT
Nothing exceptional but I treasure !  |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,216
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Post by rex on May 20, 2020 16:50:24 GMT
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,216
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Post by rex on May 21, 2020 20:03:03 GMT
Anyone knows what the R .stand for..? ..stamps dealer mark..?   |
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Post by luciano on May 21, 2020 20:19:55 GMT
Hi  As I know ... normally it is like this: the "mark"of the professional seller (physical shop), of an "philatelic expertise" (Perito in italian) or exceptionally of an expert collector.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on May 21, 2020 22:30:27 GMT
It is much larger than the usual Expert mark, not one I am familiar with. Unfortunately rex the stamp is damaged, scissor cut right side and top, so an expert mark is really of no importance. Plate 146 is not one of the more expensive plates either. I am sure that you will find a nicer example one day |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,216
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Post by rex on May 22, 2020 6:59:00 GMT
Thanks for your welcome opinions.
I saw the damage, but I can't get rid of these stamps.
Thanks again
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