angore
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Posts: 5,335
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jul 8, 2020 11:23:57 GMT
Now, Ceres is burned into my brain after watching the sci fi show "The Expanse" about the planet.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,642
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jul 5, 2021 21:02:39 GMT
I started organizing Portugal today onto Vario pages and the Cere's 'series" seems to have quite a few diffenrent stamps over the course of it's'run". After reading through the thread I have a slightly better underrstanding that this will be a learning experience. Below is what I think is Scott #275 (only reference I have for Portugal) 10 c - described as orange-brown ( I have other copies but this is definitely the brightest of the bunch) 123 x 11-1/2 perf non pontinhado paper (??) see back (and for now I'll make no attempt to remove the hinge) remnant- What caught my eye on this particular one is the recto image on the back (gum)- stamps with no gum show little sign of the image, but I see several other mint with gum stamps that also seem to 'telegraph" the image(?) but maybe it is just th3e darker colors the background on the front almost looks like there was lint on the plates.... am I on the right track?
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WERT
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Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Jul 5, 2021 21:08:26 GMT
Nice offset stainlessb Smart..never try too remove some thing like this..If you don't have a chance of damaging it.
Robert
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,642
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jul 5, 2021 21:31:04 GMT
I notice that different paper types are listed- Scott indicates 'chalky' ordinary, and glazed I seem to have basically stamps on white paper and stamps on an off-white almost reminiscent of GC paper on some of the early 20th century France stamps. In the image below the whiter paper (right) shows the faintest of patterning making me think it is pontinhado- the paper on the left is the 'off-white_ ' but which is ordinary and which is chalky?? Is it strictly by perf? Meaning could I refine my sorting without scanning/measuring each stamp?
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WERT
Departed
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Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Jul 5, 2021 21:56:05 GMT
I ran your stamps through one of my software programs and....
Looks like your right stamp has hatched paper.
Robert
CLICK IT TO MAKE IT BIGGER TO SEE MORE DETAIL
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Post by michael on Jul 7, 2021 8:28:52 GMT
Further to my post on the Madeira 1929 Ceres stamps: To recap, I wrote:
stanley64 wrote:
A New York Times article dated 17 September 1929 ( Philatarium ) confirms that the Lisbon government put out a communique saying that for 1 day only these stamps were on sale in aid of the Funchal Museum. Frustratingly, it didn't mention the date! Quote: Every stamp has a story to tell, so I love researching the finer details of them.
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,818
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jul 7, 2021 9:50:20 GMT
I think so Stan ( stainlessb); you found the Portuguese Ceres issues! Lost, no! Right track, probably and if straying, you cannot be too far off the mark ;-)
For the stamp shown, I would say you are right track - 1912 Portuguese Ceres, perf. 12 x 11,5 on smooth paper.
As for backside, I would suggest a bleeding through of the ink as ink bits I do see appear to line up too well with the image on the verso to be an off-set. The gum just serves to accentuate the appearance; I see a few examples in my own collection, but they are few and far between...
Happy collecting!
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,818
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jul 7, 2021 10:13:13 GMT
When it comes to the Portuguese Ceres issues, perforations and paper types are not unique to one another.
Your earlier example of the 10 C. orange issue can be found in no less than 7 paper types and 2 perforations.
Overall the entire series has three separate perforation varieties: 12 x 11,5 : 13,5 x 14 & 15 x 14 with no less than 7 paper types: Porcelain (coated paper), Enameled, Smooth,Glazed, Pontinhado, Plain and Card
There are examples for some of the different paper types earlier in the thread, but there in no substitute for building up a reference library of the different paper types.
Having examples in hand of the different paper types will definitely help in the identification and developing the knowledge...
Happy collecting!
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,818
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jul 13, 2021 14:57:43 GMT
Out of curiosity, I wonder if we could not impose upon djcmh or someone else who may have a copy of an Afinsa Portugal catalog or something similar and what they have written up for Stan's ( stainlessb) Scott n.º 275 - a Portugal 10c orange-brown issue.
Thanks in advance...
Happy collecting!
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Post by dosamaniac on Jul 13, 2021 17:09:28 GMT
Scott n.º 275 - a Portugal 10c orange-brown issue. Sc 275 or Sc 235?
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Post by dosamaniac on Jul 13, 2021 17:17:53 GMT
Out of curiosity, I wonder if we could not impose upon djcmh or someone else who may have a copy of an Afinsa Portugal catalog or something similar and what they have written up for Stan's ( stainlessb ) Scott n.º 275 - a Portugal 10c orange-brown issue. Thanks in advance...
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,818
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jul 14, 2021 6:29:24 GMT
Many thanks dosamaniac for the prompt reply and catalogue page; both appreciated. At the same time, I was reminded of your extensive philatelic library - great stuff!
As for the Ceres, I think we have to go with Scott n.º 235 or Afinsa n.º 215. My own Scott reference, a 1944 edition of their catalogue, would suggest Scott n.º 275 is 90c blue from the third issue (1920-22).
It is interesting to note that the current catalogue, as in the page you have shared has chosen to show a medium porcelain paper set although the entire series can be found on ordinary porcelain paper as well. The rest of paper variants for some of the individual stamps is covered in the description with the 'diverse quality' attribution.
All good and it was nice to see. Hopefully, all this has not dissuaded Stan( stainlessb) from pursuing the series...
Thanks again and happy collecting!
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Post by dosamaniac on Jul 14, 2021 12:07:31 GMT
It is interesting to note that the current catalogue, as in the page you have shared has chosen to show a medium porcelain paper set although the entire series can be found on ordinary porcelain paper as well. The rest of paper variants for some of the individual stamps is covered in the description with the 'diverse quality' attribution. First, Afinsa is now Mundifil after the infamous debacle. stanley64, there is reason why Mundifil states Diversas qualidades in the context of paper varieties. Total 21 different types of paper were used to print the Portugal Ceres stamps (1914–22). 1. papel porcelana médio (medium porcelain paper) 2. papel porcelana colorido espesso (thick colored porcelain paper) 3. papel porcelana ordinário (ordinary porcelain paper) 4. papel esmalte (enamel paper) 5. papel porcelana colorido médio (medium colored porcelain paper) 6. papel pontinhado vertical (vertically dotted paper) 7. papel liso fino (thin smooth paper) 8. papel liso médio (medium smooth paper) 9. papel liso espesso (thick smooth paper) 10. papel acetinado fino (thin satin paper) 11. papel acetinado médio (medium satin paper) 12. papel acetinado espesso (thick satin paper) 13. papel cartolina (card paper) 14. papel porcelana colorido (colored porcelain paper) 15. papel amarelado pontinhado horizontal (horizontally dotted yellowish paper) 16. papel amarelado pontinhado vertical (verically dotted yellowish paper) 17. papel acetinado médio (medium satin paper) 18. papel liso fino (thin smooth paper) 19. papel liso médio (medium smooth paper) 20. papel lustrado espesso (thick glazed paper) 21. papel acetinado (satin paper) Each and every type of paper variant is elaborately explained and the Portugal Ceres stamps printed on each paper type are listed, covering in 12 pages. The medium porcelain paper was used to print only the first 11 stamps of Portugal 1912 Ceres 1st series which in turn exists in the first 3 paper types. Papel porcelana ordinário (ordinary porcelain paper) was used only for the 5 denominations of 1912 1st series among the entire Portugal Ceres (1914–22) stamp issues.
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brightonpete
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Jul 14, 2021 13:15:05 GMT
21 paper types?
What a nightmare, I'd never be able to sort them out.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,642
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jul 14, 2021 13:15:13 GMT
I can see i will need many more stamps to work with in this series! Is the Mudfil catalogue the current 'best" reference?
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djcmh
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Posts: 768
What I collect: Worldwide
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Post by djcmh on Jul 14, 2021 13:42:00 GMT
I can see i will need many more stamps to work with in this series! Is the Mudfil catalogue the current 'best" reference? Yes, Mundifil is the "catalogue of record" for Portugal and the former colonies. Well worth the investment to get a newish copy, as Mundifil have expanded on what Afinsa covered.
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Post by dosamaniac on Jul 14, 2021 13:42:48 GMT
Mundifil (not Mudfil ) is the ultimate catalog for Portugal and colonies postage stamps. Selos Postais e Marcas Pré-Adesivas Portugal Açores MadeiraEd. José Manuel Miranda da Mota. Mundifil, Lisboa, Portugal 2020 33rd Ed. ISBN 9789899999428 Price: €38.00
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,642
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jul 14, 2021 21:28:15 GMT
any suggestions for how best to buy? I went to Mundifils website and it is sold out- found another site that refers me to e-Bay, but nothing found except a 2019 Portugal Colonies (or so it seems), and AFINSA Seles Postals E Marcas Pre-Adesives 29th ed 2013 Portugal catalogue,
??
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renden
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Posts: 8,705
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Jul 14, 2021 23:30:35 GMT
Can't help, Stan
René
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gmot
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Posts: 205
What I collect: Canada & French Morocco
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Post by gmot on Jul 15, 2021 2:33:45 GMT
I recently purchased my Mundifil 2019 Portuguese colonies from a seller on Delcampe (dreamstamps). Excellent quality publication. I just checked their active listings, and unfortunately they don't have the Portugal catalogue itself listed. May be worth asking them though.
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,818
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jul 15, 2021 8:29:38 GMT
That's a comprehensive list dosamaniac and fortunately not every issue is available on all the paper varieties ;-)
As you rightly point out, papel porcelana ordinário (ordinary porcelain paper) was only used for five stamps of the first series. The same values can be found on other different paper (dp) types as well though: 1/4 c. (8 dp), 1/2 c. - (8 dp), 1 c. - (3 dp), 2 1/2 c. - (7 dp), 5 c. - (4 dp). There are several examples of the different paper types shown earlier in the thread including this example for the 1/4 c. varieties.
Whist the list of 21 papers is comprehensive it omits three documented in the writings of José Miranda da Mota, the same individual attributed as editor for the Mundifil catalogue. In which case the total number of different types of paper should be, by my count - 24 and I would suggest the list be updated to include:
papel pontinhado horizontal (horizontally dotted paper) papel liso pontinhado vertical (vertically dotted paper) papel parafinado (brownish, oily paper)
On a side note and on the topic of paper, the papel liso or smooth paper is based on thickness, e.g thick paper : 86-100 μm.
There is a lot there and one could spend a lifetime studying, or being lost in, the land of Ceresmania....
Happy collecting!
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stanley64
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Posts: 1,818
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jul 21, 2021 14:54:53 GMT
In addition to the standard catalogues, here is another invaluable reference, albeit without any number system, that covers all 8 of the Portuguese Ceres issues,
Happy collecting!
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Post by dosamaniac on Jul 21, 2021 15:56:33 GMT
For the Ceres issues of Por. colonies, the best reference is this. Os Selos Ceres das Colónias Portuguêsas Estudo das Diferentes Emissões de Todos os Territórios Ultramarinos Correio Ordinário, Porteado e Imposto Postal (1913–1949)José Manuel Miranda da Mota. Núcleo Filatélico do Ateneu Comercial do Porto, Porto, Portugal 2015 ISBN 9789729535086 Price: €15.00Índia 1914–32 Ceres keytype issue is elaborately illustrated and described in pp.105–18. The only drawback is that the illustrations are not in color. If anyone wants to buy it, may contact NFACP Treasurer Isabel Vieira. She is very cordial and helpful.
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,818
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jul 22, 2021 8:01:22 GMT
Both books referenced are good and sit on the shelves of my philatelic library. Although there may be other sources, both texts along with several others, can be purchased from the Mundifil website here.
Now, back to the stamps...
São Tomé and Príncipe 1 C. Ceres Issue (1914) Afinsa nº 201 - Misperforated block of 6
Happy collecting!
P.S. Standard "No responsibility" or "Business association" disclaimer applies...
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Post by dosamaniac on Jul 22, 2021 8:29:49 GMT
Back to reference books. Portugal Ceres Variedades de ClichéJosé Manuel Miranda da Mota and Armando Mário de Oliveira Vieira. Afinsa, Lisboa, Portugal 1992
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Post by dosamaniac on Jul 22, 2021 9:18:24 GMT
Os Papéis dos Selos Ceres de PortugalJosé Manuel Miranda da Mota. Convenção Filatélica, Póvoa de Varzim, Portugal 2003
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,818
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Dec 5, 2021 12:26:34 GMT
Earlier, I had shown a smattering or mitt full of Portuguese Ceres issues I had won as a lote from an on-line auction as can be seen here.
Since their arrival, I have had the chance to examine them more closely and thought to share my notes and a few images of some of the selected items more closely,
Açores - 1915
Pares dentando 15 x 14 ¼ C. Sépia - Pontinhado Vertical
Cabo Verde - 1914
Quadras dentando 15 x 14 ½ C. Preto - Liso Pontinhado Vertical 2 C. Carmine - Liso Pontinhado Vertical - selo n.º 1 cliché CCCXL
2 ½ C. Violeta Claro - Liso
- selo n.º 2 cliché CCCXLIII
Quadras dentando 12 x 11 1/2 ¼ C. Sépia - Liso 1 ½ C. Castanho - Liso - selo n.º 2 cliché CCXCVII
Solteiros dentando 15 x 14 1 C. Verdo Amarelo- Liso
Pares dentando 15 x 14 ½ C. Preto - Liso Pontinhado Vertical
Congo – 1914
Quadras dentando 15 x 14
¼ C. Sépia – Amarelado Pontinhado Vertical
- estrelas IV-I, I-IV, I-III, IV-I (selos n.º 146, 147, 166, 167)
Guiné – 1914 Quadras dentando 15 x 14
¼ C. Preto - Acetinado Pontinhado Vertical - selo n.º 1 cliché CCCXXXIII & selo n.º 3 - CCXCV (selos n.º 112, 113, 121, 122)
Solteiros dentando 15 x 14 1 ½ C. Castanho Claro - Porcelana Médio - n/cat cliché
2 ½ C. Violeta - Porcelana Médio
Solteiros dentando 12 x 11 ½ 1 C. Verde Amarelo - Liso
Guiné – 1925 Quadras dentando 12 x 11 ½ 2 C. Cinzento - Liso Pontinhado Vertical - selo n.º 3 cliché CCLXXI & n/cat cliché (selos n.º 146, 147, 166, 167)
Lourenço Marques - 1914
Solteiros dentando 15 x 14 1 C. Verdo Escuro- Pontinhado Vertical 1 ½ C. Castanho - Porcelana Médio
Pares dentando 15 x 14 ½ C. Preto - Pontinhado Vertical
S. Tomé e Príncipe - 1914
Solteiros dentando 15 x 14 1½ C. Castanho - Porcelana Médio 2 ½ C. Violeta Claro - Porcelana Médio
Pares dentando 15 x 14 ¼ C. Castanho - Amarelado Pontinhado Horizontal
Quadras dentando 12 x 11 ½ 1 C. Verde Cinzento – Liso Espesso
Tete - 1914
Solteiros dentando 15 x 14 ½ C. Preto - Porcelana Médio
Pares dentando 15 x 14 1 ½ C. Castanho - Porcelana Médio
With that, 2022 is shaping up to be the year for the Portuguese Ceres issues...
Happy collecting!
P.S. My excuses for the notes being in Portuguese. If anyone has questions, please do ask.
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,818
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Dec 14, 2021 8:52:54 GMT
Continuing with the star variants that can be found on the Ceres issues of Portuguese colonies, here is an interesting pair on two different paper types. Congo 1914 2 Centavos (Afinsa no. 103), carmine, acetinhado (satin) pontinhado vertical, perforated 15 x 14 with stars II-III.
L - acetinhado fino (thin) pontinhado vertical, R - acetinhado pontinhado vertical
The stamps printed on acetinhado (satin), a very smooth paper, have a standard star alignment of II-II for this paper type, those with stars II-III are a variety with only 250 printed. Given the survivability rate, I would suggest a rare configuration, as to their scarcity, only someone with a current catalogue can say...
Happy collecting!
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,818
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Dec 18, 2021 12:07:54 GMT
An unusual postmark for a Ceres issue,
Portuguese Guiné 1920, 20 C. Green (Afinsa n.º 154) perforated 12 x 11 1/2, paper type - smooth
Unfortunately, the details of the ship is located in the bottom part of the cancel and here it is missing. Post offices on the ships also handled foreign mail delivered in ports and were cancelled with the ship's postmark. For further reading, you might find a copy of Philip Cockrill's text, The History, Ships and Postal Cancellations of the Woermann Line (Deutsche Seepost Linie Hamburg Westafrika) interesting.
If anyone has any additional details or insights, please do share...
Happy collecting!
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,818
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Dec 18, 2021 12:23:58 GMT
I recently came across a glassine envelope of Portuguese Angola issue and here they are in their unsorted state,
Not all Ceres Stamps are the same and one can spend some time to sort them into their appropriate issues. Here is my checklist for separating them out:
Perforation - check the perforations Value - not the value Year - determine the year or issue Colour - check for colour variants Paper - review for paper type Clichés or other errors - last, but not least review for anomolies.
The sorted stamps ended up on the card in this manner,
15 x 14 1914 1 c. Yellow Green, Smooth / Ordinary 5 c. Dark Blue, Smooth / Ordinary 15 c. Plum, Satin
15 x 14 1921-22 3 c. Orange, Smooth / Vertical Lozenges 4 c. Dull Rose, Smooth / Medium Paper 6 c. Lilac, Smooth / Vertical Lozenges 7 c. Ultramarine, Smooth / Medium Paper 30 c. Grey Greeen, Smooth / Medium Paper 80 c. Pink, Smooth / Vertical Lozenges 2 E. Dark Violet, Smooth / Medium Paper
12 x 11½ 1921-22 4½ c. Grey, Smooth / Ordinary 12 c. Olive Brown, Smooth / Ordinary 40 c. Turquoise Blue, Smooth / Ordinary 60 c. Dark Blue, Smooth / Ordinary
12 x 11½ 1925 -26 2 c. Grey, Smooth / Vertical Lozenges
The final step, checking for clichés, errors or other anomalies, I did note a few faulty 'A's in the printing of 'ANGOLA' especially on the 4½ c. Grey stamp, but the one that caught my eye was this,
Here the printing of the word 'CORREIO' along the right-hand side has been almost completed removed due to perhaps over-inking(?) A quick look of other issues on-line and I can find no similar examples. If anyone else has another example or explanation as to a cause, please do share. In the meantime...
Happy collecting!
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