Germany: Need Help Identifying

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susiecc

Here are 2 copies of Scott 138, one used and one mint - both have the 125 (lozenges) wmks, visible without watermark fluid - have you tried some fluid ? Good Luck and nice to see your post

I did a back 600 dpi scan on Germany 137 and 138 and the lozenges are present

René

If you go to Colnect you will get more info.  

We are glad to help ! What watermark fluid did you use and did you put the stamp in front of a black background (not in the light) ?

René

OK, from left to right:

left:  your original backside image
center:  marked in black where I think the lozenge lines are (very approximate, I disregarded the line breaks)
right:  probably the best locations to see if you can spot an elongated diamond (if you see solids better than outlines, then the upper right red diamond may be easier);  again, the marks are very very approximate locations



That's where I "think" I see the diamonds.  But you have the physical stamp and the watermark fluid, so... but I recommend holding up to a light first when trying to spot very localized areas.

Knowing me, it will probably turn out to be the other watermark once you finish looking.


 k (aka, the guy with the wild/weird imagination when it comes to seeing watermarks that aren't there)

to renden: I used Clarity. It was in a black dish, but I also took it out after using the fluid and laid it on a black surface.

to khj: I love a wickedly creative imagination. I see what you're getting at. I think I'll scan it (this was just a phone shot) to see if I can get more detail. RetroReveal is very interesting. I wonder what would happen if I did a color separation of the image.

thank you both.

susiecc

Good spot on the cancel salentin!  I was looking at the cancel on stamp posted by renden instead of the cancel on the stamp from susiecc.  Yes, it must be lozenge watermark, and the lines do show in the high contrast processed pic that susiecc posted later.

susiecc, to find the blackish olive variety in Scott, you have to go to the Scott Classic Specialized, where it is listed as Germany #138c.  The Scott Standard Worldwide doesn't go into many of the color shades.

Color varieties are often mis-IDed if you only look at a single stamp under conditions other than natural light, and color reproduction/accuracy is highly dependent on the scanner/monitor (we are all using different monitors and the color will not look the same if not calibrated).

To convince yourself you have a Germany 138c, look for the common 138 in your collection/accumulation and put them side by side.  The blackish olive will not only be a darker, but will also be noticeably "blacker".  If only a slight difference, you simply have a "darker" olive green stamp (there will be variation from inking, sunlight exposure, chemical exposure...).  See the example side by side scan below for 138 (left) vs 138c (right).

Then I would agree that the left stamp is blackish olive. Plus, the cancel has bleed-thru, indicative of oil-based ink -- so that is promising for genuine postally used cancel (as opposed to pre-dated manufactured cancels produced in later years from the original cancellers but many with the incorrect type of ink). Congratulations! Hope you don't mind, I'm going to pilfer your pic for my reference archive.

A 10c stamp from French Guinea,with a cancellation from Conakry,dated 26 June,1916.
According to my Gibbons and Dallay catalogue,this stamp does not exist.The 10c value from the 1913 set is vermillion and carmine according to Dallay,or rose and orahge red according toGibbons.This stamp is yellow with reddish/crimson centre.
I know colours fade in sunlight or after soaking,but the cancellation is quite clear.I dn,t have a Maury or Yvert catalogue-would like to know what is listed there.
Or maybe my eyesight is going and I have overlooked something ??

Feebletodix.....thanks for the reply. I think SG 84 and 85 were issued later,1922-1926.
The colour in the scan appears more orange than yellow....
Anglobob

Agreed. In Scott, French Guinea #68(1913) red orange and rose. The stamp is unevenly faded and the paper appears to be toned (or maybe artifact of the scanning). You can see the red orange frame color drops significantly at bottom left corner, and the red orange color in the solid parts of the panels are very uneven.

Even if the scanning makes it appear more orange than it really is, to me it is still a color changeling. Below, circled in red is the obvious fading/unevenness in the red orange. While it is common to have little white specks in the panels, you should not have such large drop-outs. The toning I speak of is not overall paper toning, but what appears to be spotting/rust/foxing, circled in blue, but that may still be an artifact of the scanning or paper wrinkles/creases.

Yes, that can happen.  But in this case I did not consider that since the color of the stamp is not red orange -- so I associated the large dropouts with the greater likelihood of what happened to the stamp after it was printed (i.e., color changeling).  If there was a problem with ink drying out or becoming tacky, it seems unusual to me see such fine lines in the columns and at the top of the column to remain so sharp on a typographed stamps (I would think you should see some ink bulges/blots in the lines because of the tacky ink).  My non-expert opinion.

No doubt someone will post a specialized catalog snippet listing yellow & rose variety.  

My late dad owned a Newspaper, printing office (big) etc.....and I learned the trade but that was in the early 60s and I trust your opinion