anglobob
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Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Apr 2, 2020 20:30:27 GMT
Just before I moved to Ecuador, I purchased a small selection of stamps with balloon cancellations from the 1870-71 siege of Paris. I never got round to more research and had forgotten about them. I recently found them tucked away in an old album. I have no idea if they are all genuine, but now I have lots of free time to do some research......  |
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vikingeck
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Posts: 3,261
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Apr 2, 2020 21:00:15 GMT
I am intrigued and not a little puzzled by these cancels .
I have a couple of actual ballon flight covers but the stamps are all cancelled in Paris. at departure points.
Your cancels appear to have letters which code for arrivals in Le Havre Lille, Bordeaux etc.
Now as there was no possible way they could predict where the ballon might end up , these cancels cannot have been applied at departure in Paris. One balloon even made it to Norway and a couple or more were captured by the Prussians.
This suggests they must be arrival landing cancels ... but why were they not cancelled in Paris ?
Or am I missing something here?.
i was indeed missing something. I have since checked French postmarks with letters in the lozenge and I believe they are not ballon flights which could not predict the destination. They were cancels used on travelling railway postal sorting carriages. What the French call ambulants and we call TPO travelling post offices.
this suggests that the German text with named balloons and the named pilots are not relevant to these post marks .
TPO cancels are nice but they are not balloon flights.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,261
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Apr 2, 2020 21:27:52 GMT
Another indication that they cannot be ballon flight is the range of values present including the high value red 80c or is it 1f. ? Used for heavier mail items
Balloon letters had to be lightweight and the tariff was the blue 20c for a letter on flimsy paper.,
you also have stamps with Ceres and Napoleon III both laureated and no laurel wreath. Napoleons did the Empire was out by 1870 and the Ceres Stamps of the republic were the issue used for the Siege of Paris 1870-71
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Apr 3, 2020 0:02:28 GMT
Vikingeck......many thanks for your info.I also had my doubts.
Am slightly disappointed....this probably means that the autographed picture of Leonard da Vinci I bought from the same dealer is also a fake......
Anglobob
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 3, 2020 0:15:47 GMT
Most interesting? Does anyone have an example of a verified balloon cancel?
and if I understand, the stamps for these would be the 20c Ceres (perforated??)
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,598
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Apr 3, 2020 1:10:26 GMT
anglobob - found these with Mr. Google well that didn't work, try googling balloon monte, several examples are shown.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 3, 2020 1:55:36 GMT
Balloon monte.... all I got was images of balloons....? I found this.... but it looks like the entire cover is needed link |
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,598
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Apr 3, 2020 2:11:56 GMT
stainlessb Oh, then try this "Balloon Monte Postmarks" It takes me to a link for Balloon Monte Postmarks Images.
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tobben63
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Stamp eat sleep repeat
Posts: 1,866 
What I collect: I collect to much, world wide!
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Post by tobben63 on Apr 3, 2020 7:06:16 GMT
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Apr 19, 2020 14:20:46 GMT
Carte Lettre with convoyeur markings Etampes a Paris,6 Feb 1913 and receiving cancel Arpajon 7 Feb,1913.  |
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Jun 11, 2020 15:11:38 GMT
Obliterations lineairies Going through an old album , I discovered these items which I acquired a few years ago.I believe they were hand cancelled on arrival if the mail was not cancelled . I have no idea if this is still done today but it is much more attractive than a pen or marker cancellation.   |
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Oct 18, 2020 0:03:44 GMT
Yvert #23 what are your thoughts on the cancellation Gross Chiffre #1??? or just a random mark?  |
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator 
Posts: 5,652
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 18, 2020 7:16:45 GMT
Hi, Stan ( stainlessb): I am by no means a specialist in this area, but I think you have a partial strike of 6-pointed star there. I think I have an example closer to a full strike, which I will try to post to show you what it looks like. Others, such as zipper, blaamand, barbu, anglobob, hrdoktorx, tobben63, etc. may know more. |
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chrischross
Member
Posts: 206
What I collect: France, French Africa, FSAT, French Polynesia
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Post by chrischross on Oct 18, 2020 7:25:16 GMT
I think it's star cancel ("etoile") like you said, and the number represents the district in Paris. I'm not an expert by any means.
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,652
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 18, 2020 7:58:32 GMT
Thanks for your added comment, chrischross. Glad to think I am on the right track, at least. OK, Stan ( stainlessb), here is my example:  France, Sc37d, 5-franc gray lilac with light blue "5F", postmarked 6-pointed star with large numeral 35 Don't have the reference to hand to identify the location of the postmark. If I find it, I will add it here. Otherwise, perhaps someone else will chime in. |
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blaamand
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Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Oct 18, 2020 9:55:17 GMT
Chris Beryllium Guy - that's a wonderful 5Fr Napoleon! stainlessb - It's a bit difficult to say for sure if it's a '1' or '10', '4' or others... Suggest you look at THIS SITE , which is very useful for the "Étoiles chiffrées", then you can compare with examples of each number, all numbers available HERE. French postmarks is a collecting area in itself. Good luck! anglobob - those "Obliterations lineairies" are awesome!! I have found a few of them myself, but nothing like yours - what a great find  . They are not that common in legible condition. |
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,638
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Oct 18, 2020 14:26:33 GMT
Yes I agree it is Étoiles chiffrées and looking at it more, I think it may be a "7" as the line is slanted
and chris that is indeed a nice Napoleon 5F!
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Oct 18, 2020 18:20:59 GMT
I would agree Stanley stainlessb, I think your star resembles etoille no. 7   |
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,652
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 18, 2020 21:46:45 GMT
Thanks to Stan ( stainlessb ), Jon ( blaamand ), and chrischross for a good dialogue on the subject of the "Etoiles Chiffrées" (Numbered Stars) cancellations. I figured that doing a search in French might bring up the best info. The Star cancellations are for areas in Paris, and here is what I could find: Website: www.multicollection.fr/Les-Etoiles-de-ParisSo, if this is correct, it looks like No. 7 is Rue des Vieilles Haudriettes, and No. 35 is Salpétrière. |
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,652
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 19, 2020 6:52:35 GMT
Les Etoiles de ParisNumbered stars were used at the 39 Paris district offices...each was given its own number. The Central Bureau also had its own star cancel but without a number. I purchased these a couple of years ago and forgot about them, getting more interested in French Colonies.  This post with image was originally made on 17-Feb-2020 in the Whatcha Been Stamping thread. Thanks to Bob ( anglobob ) for sending me a PM reminding me about it. I could have just moved the original post, but then it would have ended up at the start of this thread, and it seemed like it would be better to put it here, just after the list. Perfect image for this spot in the thread, Bob! Thanks again for letting me know. |
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,652
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 19, 2020 7:07:55 GMT
Just giving this thread a bump to call attention to the post from anglobob (please see previous post) which he made in February that fits perfectly with the recent run of posts regarding the "Etoiles de Paris" (Paris Star Cancellations) 1863-1876. Thanks again for calling it to my attention, Bob! |
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kasvik
Member
Posts: 542
What I collect: Cancels mostly, especially Sweden Gävle and Lidingö, Switzerland Geneva, Germany Pforzheim
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Post by kasvik on Nov 15, 2021 20:03:31 GMT
Usually I avoid mourning covers, for all the usual reasons. I'm just not that strong.
But this cover from Switzerland to France in August 1943 is covered in mysterious red marks. And there is a black number on the right border--looks like registration but it isn't. Most must be related to war-time censoring by Vichy. Any idea?
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rex
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Posts: 1,147
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Post by rex on Nov 15, 2021 20:30:47 GMT
The '' verification by censorship '' is the Italian one not of Vichy. In fact the town of La Batie Neuve in 1943 was a part of France controlled by the Italian army.
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rex
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Posts: 1,147
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Post by rex on Nov 15, 2021 21:20:20 GMT
 III Ufficio Censura posta estera. III Foreign Mail Censorship Office. |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,147
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Post by rex on Nov 15, 2021 21:34:52 GMT
 This (203) is the identification number of the censor. For the black postmark with the numbers on the right I don't know. |
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kasvik
Member
Posts: 542
What I collect: Cancels mostly, especially Sweden Gävle and Lidingö, Switzerland Geneva, Germany Pforzheim
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Post by kasvik on Nov 15, 2021 21:46:49 GMT
The '' verification by censorship '' is the Italian one not of Vichy. In fact the town of La Baite Neuve in 1943 was a part of France controlled by the Italian army.
Thanks rex |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,147
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Post by rex on Nov 15, 2021 22:13:52 GMT
 These two circled in yellow will certainly be connected with censorship, but unfortunately I can't explain them. Perhaps Alex vikingeck could add more to this. |
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vikingeck
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Posts: 3,261
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Nov 16, 2021 4:37:38 GMT
Sorry no, I am not familiar with Italian censor marks . an attractive interesting cover with that explanation from rex . I like it, and very new info to me about Italian occupation and censorship. |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,147
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Post by rex on Nov 16, 2021 10:01:49 GMT
I must say that I like it a lot too, the Italian military occupation in that part of France began on 10 June 1940 and ended on 8 September 1943. Considering this rather short period, the cover is certainly of uncommon historical postal interest.
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racatrien
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Fan of Madagascar, Mauritius, Reunion (Indian Ocean more widely) but also everything else....
Posts: 150
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Post by racatrien on Nov 16, 2021 22:43:55 GMT
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. They are not that common in legible condition.
