Andy Pastuszak
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Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Jun 12, 2020 18:22:09 GMT
I just got an email from Amos advertising their 2021 catalogs.
It's 2020. I no longer want a giant catalog printed in multi-volume books that gets updated once a year. I want a website and a phone/tablet app that's updated weekly or monthly with new releases.
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madbaker
Member
Posts: 802
What I collect: (Mark) General worldwide collector (to 1975 or so) with a soft spot for Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia.
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Post by madbaker on Jun 12, 2020 20:18:19 GMT
YES! Although I love paper, I can't deal with the bulk of these.
A side rant - Why do I need to carry around all the junk issues (junk to me, not necessarily everyone) from the Grenadines? Print on demand is a real thing. Why can't I get a worldwide catalogue to 1975 with current images and pricing? Or just the countries I collect?
The 'classic' catalogue sells well, I thought. There's a big opportunity here, especially when dealers are selling two year old versions of the full Scott for $250
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brightonpete
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Jun 12, 2020 20:45:44 GMT
I complained to them as well about their iPad offering. It was abysmal! They emailed me back saying thanks & they'll look into it, but they never did. I'll never buy all those softcover catalogues! They lost a paying customer when they abandoned their pad app - I would have been hooked on that!
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Post by mdroth on Jun 12, 2020 21:13:53 GMT
I want to see rants that are updated weekly or monthly!!
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Post by PostmasterGS on Jun 12, 2020 22:43:17 GMT
I know I'm a Michel homer, but Scott could really learn a thing or two from them.
In addition to their hard-copy catalogs, Michel now offers:
1. An online, database-driven catalog that is completely searchable, and is kept relatively up-to-date. It also has a rudimentary system that allows you to mark entries and add them to a list. 2. Online e-books of their catalogs. 3. PDF copies of their catalogs on USB sticks. 4. Create-your-own catalog, either in hard copy or on USB stick. 5. A website that allows you to take a photo on your phone and have it search the catalog for a match. 6. Cataloging software. 7. Album software that's integrated with the catalog data.
If it weren't for the language barrier, they'd dominate (though they are publishing more English-language versions these days).
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Jun 13, 2020 2:13:47 GMT
I can't tell you how many times I have ranted to Scott/Amos. Their current offering is pathetic. You need to be online 100% of the time to use your catalogs. When I asked them 3-4 years ago, they said they're working on it and should have something in about 6 months. 6 months later they said they they're still working on it. They then released new catalogs and I asked again about offline access, and they told me they have no plans to offer offline access for their catalogs. They even yanked their iOS and Android app and force you to use the website.
They really should look at what stampworld.com is doing. It's an online catalog with a built in marketplace. That's something that I thing could work, because you make a profit off the marketplace.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Jun 13, 2020 2:19:26 GMT
I know I'm a Michel homer, but Scott could really learn a thing or two from them. In addition to their hard-copy catalogs, Michel now offers: 1. An online, database-driven catalog that is completely searchable, and is kept relatively up-to-date. It also has a rudimentary system that allows you to mark entries and add them to a list. 2. Online e-books of their catalogs. 3. PDF copies of their catalogs on USB sticks. 4. Create-your-own catalog, either in hard copy or on USB stick. 5. A website that allows you to take a photo on your phone and have it search the catalog for a match. 6. Cataloging software. 7. Album software that's integrated with the catalog data. If it weren't for the language barrier, they'd dominate (though they are publishing more English-language versions these days). Amos does print on demand now, at least for album pages. My understanding is that the Scott catalog is just a giant Adobe FrameMaker file that they edit and update manually every year. Nothing is in a database. They're also super nervous about competing against the companies that license their catalog numbers.
Until they get their digital act together I will continue to buy CHIROKMD catalog pages and scan then to PDF.
Everything MICHEL does is better. Even their numbering system makes more sense than Scott's.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,698
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jun 13, 2020 10:27:36 GMT
I sure would like to see their business model. Amos lives in a printed world and do not think the data in the catalog is in a database so it would cost a small fortune to convert and they may be concerned they will never see the pay back. One guess is they probably need to keep the print run to a minimum numbers to stay affordable so they do not want to risk volumes. Catalog are getting bigger due to prolific stamp issuing countries. The importance of value is over rated for modern material. Who collects all those modern souvenir sheets from countries that do not have a postal system?
How Scott could be more convenient? 1. 100% illustrated online 2. organization based upon collecting areas not alphabetical order. 3. Add supplemental identification information
But this is why the guy that sells extracts of Scott catalogues has a business!
Note: A 2021 printed set costs $630 from Amos. An e-edition is around $75 for each volume - digital version of printed catalog
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Post by PostmasterGS on Jun 13, 2020 12:38:20 GMT
Scott's alphabetical arrangement is the #1 reason I don't buy new Scott catalogs more than about once a decade. I collect a very narrow area, but would have to buy all the volumes to cover that area. Again, not to beat the Michel horse to death, but their catalogs are all either geographical (Eastern Europe, Caribbean Islands, etc.), or topical (cats, dogs, trains, etc.).
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brightonpete
Departed
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Jun 13, 2020 13:22:08 GMT
Until they get their digital act together I will continue to buy CHIROKMD catalog pages and scan then to PDF. That is exactly what I have done too, it is so much more convenient that way! Wake up Amos and smell the coffee! I wonder if they have a spy in here...
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Jun 13, 2020 14:15:14 GMT
Until they get their digital act together I will continue to buy CHIROKMD catalog pages and scan then to PDF. That is exactly what I have done too, it is so much more convenient that way! Wake up Amos and smell the coffee! I wonder if they have a spy in here... Sadly, I don't think it will happen. They're a print company for the most part. I think angore is right in that they probably need to print a certain number of catalogs to maintain a price point. And they won't license their catalog to someone willing to do it, because they're afraid it will eat into catalog sales.
I always thought that the barrier to entry for a catalog was shipping weight. These catalogs are heavy. Buying a compete catalog and shipping it from a foreign country is expensive. So, the first catalog maker that could come up with a compelling digital offering that could make it accessible world-wide might have a chance of cornering the market. But I was wrong. People are way to locked into their numbering system. If Scott came along tomorrow and created the best online catalog ever, only US people would use it, because the German collectors would all use MICHEL numbers, and British collectors would all use SG numbers, and so on.
I don't know if anyone remembers the original Scott Catalog for iOS. It was an app, that basically was a front end to a bunch of encrypted PDF files. Amos created a whole new company for that offering called Amos Media. I think their hope was that they could sell their solution to other print publishers and have the development of the product pay for itself. Sadly, Amos Media folded because it never got any customers other than Amos Publishing.
So, they've been burned before...
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brightonpete
Departed
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Jun 13, 2020 16:10:32 GMT
Their app was just a sad effort! It needed a lot of TLC that I guess they were just not up to. They are a company of the previous century, not wanting to take advantage of newer technology. They'll eventually die out if they don't get with the times!
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Post by mdroth on Jun 13, 2020 16:54:22 GMT
Rant away...it can't hurt & hopefully you'll feel better??!!?
This discussion is the definition of 'beating a dead horse' - as it has all been said, over several decades already...
Amos sells horses. If they make you a car, you won't want to buy their horses anymore! Like all of their contemporaries in the publishing world, they are dying a slow & painful death.
Eventually, after they die, their copyrights & trademarks will expire, or someone will buy them. At that point, a 20 yr old computer science student could deliver what we all want with ease.
I don't expect many of us - if any of us?! - will be around to see this...
Our market is too small to force change. Thus, a monopoly continues to stifle competition & innovation.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Jun 15, 2020 1:25:57 GMT
I thought Amos was ahead of the curve back in the late 90s/early 2000s, when they released their catalog as PDFs on CD-ROM. But that was probably zero effort for them. They were already using some desktop publishing app to print their catalog and the ‘Export to PDF” option was probably built into the software. To set up a database with a web front end would be a significant undertaking. I’m sure someone else would be willing to do the work and just license the catalog numbers, but Amos won’t do that, since it would compete against StampManage and EZStamp, two of their current licensees.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,906
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jun 15, 2020 1:38:15 GMT
I have found the search for adequate/acceptable catalogue materials to to be a challenge. As I do not collect moderns" , It would seem an easy task to just find/buy older references.... but, as I (and many others I am sure ) have found, many references are lacking in various ares of detail, and many do not "agree" with each "other".... France coming immediately to mind.....
In some ways, a philatelist, must also become a research librarian!
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Jerry B
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Marietta, Georgia USA
Posts: 1,485
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Post by Jerry B on Jun 15, 2020 9:06:40 GMT
Hi
Years back Michel offered to put together a catalog for the countries one wanted (forgot which year). I Checked with them for a "catalog" with just my three areas, Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela. The cost, without shipping, was significantly more than if I just bought the whole catalog.
I also asked Scott about getting only the countries one wanted. This would be a "no brainer" now that that they are computerized. The answer I got was that it was impractical as too many wanted the whole shooting match. Dealers maybe, but I doubt a lot of collectors.
I was buying sections from upstate N.Y. and, unfortunately, that gentleman passed away. One or two years later, along comes Rick and Karen, chirokmd, offering catalog sections. I have been buying from them ever since.
In this day and age, Amos Publishing, Scott, is shooting themselves in the foot. They have been computerized for years now. I know they publish galleys for proof reading and checking content. That is, essentially, what is being asked for, except in final format. Why can't Scott get programming developers that know what they are doing?
Anyways, along with Andy, this my rant with Scott.
Jerry B
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Jerry B
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Marietta, Georgia USA
Posts: 1,485
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Post by Jerry B on Jun 15, 2020 9:11:53 GMT
Hi Stan
Collecting only 3 countries I have found that the general catalogs do not suffice. One has to obtain catalogs published in the country itself. I will say that if one is word wide it is an impossibility. However, I have found that most WW collectors have a "pet" country or two. Then specialized catalogs for a country or two is possible.
Jerry B
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,698
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jun 15, 2020 11:05:47 GMT
I collect mostly British Commonwealth so have a Scott set. SG 1840=-1970, and SG Concise. For modern material (post 1940), it does not really matter what catalog you use as the listings are very similar although not in the same order unless you are a specialist. What Scott lacks is images and I will often go to Stampworld to find items rather than thumb through pages of tiny illustrations often just one example of a complete set. Stampworld allows searching by denomination. Now, Stamp Manage could do some of this but it is woefully incomplete on listing and images. I have added 7000 listings myself to Stamp Manage but no images. But as stainlessb says we get to do research with a library available through our computer. Imagine asking a question like Kathiri State of Seiyun South Arabia issues in Scott? If not online, do I have to go to a local stamp club or contact someone at the APRL?
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Post by michael on Jun 15, 2020 12:17:20 GMT
I'm lucky, I mainly only need the SG Commonwealth 1840-1970 catalogue which I buy every two years. Other catalogues I need I borrow from local libraries or consult when I (or used to) visit the Royal Philatelic Society in London. Personally I much prefer to browse though a real catalogue than using a pdf viewer or similar, though searching for stamp descriptions is obviously better when done electronically. The SG specialist catalogues, though not printed every year, are very good.
The Scott 2009 catalogue on pdf was a big mistake as it became widely available on the internet to download for free. Perhaps they are still consious of this.
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brightonpete
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Jun 15, 2020 12:52:20 GMT
The Scott 2009 catalogue on pdf was a big mistake as it became widely available on the internet to download for free. Perhaps they are still consious of this. That is what I have. I've added a "Table of Contents" to each to make it easier to get to what I am looking for. They never did that, or an index at the end. It is so easy too do, I never understood why they made it so difficult to use. I guess no one there is really all that computer literate!
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Jun 15, 2020 16:44:34 GMT
Actually, they did have TOC/Index from the get-go, as I bought the Scott digitized catalogs early in the game back in 2005. But the index was just the same as the print catalog index, and not "clickable". If I remember correctly, the installer would even put in a front-loading navigation page (which I hate). So I ended up extracting the pdfs individually so I could open up what I needed directly from Windows.
The 2008 DVDs required registration to activate. Fine, I understand. But when I change laptops, I have to re-register; how long with they support re-registration? Congratulations, you just opened the door for forcing people to get hacked files.
The 2009 DVDs were just totally annoying. By disabling the print function (I was printing specific catalog pages as needed in gray-scale to make notes and mark special inventory), they pretty much forced me to get hacked files so I could print a couple of pages. I understand their concerns, but it pretty much killed the product as it forced people to hack or purchase pirated files -- in other words, they shot themselves in the foot, again.
If your pdf files are missing or having corrupted bookmarks, the file is hacked/pirated. The original files have clean bookmarks.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Jun 15, 2020 16:48:18 GMT
I like having as large of file as possible, so it is easier to do a search. But many others like individual country files.
Amos has a difficult task. Can't make everybody happy. If I owned Amos, the gripes in this thread would probably last 100 pages.
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Jerry B
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Marietta, Georgia USA
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Post by Jerry B on Jun 15, 2020 16:58:33 GMT
Hi angore The library I need is the National Library in Bogota, Colombia I can do some research with Google books but, not enough. That is more than obvious!! Some companies are cheap. They hire people who have no experience and haven't a clue of what to do or how to design a system. Somebody, like myself, is going to cost them way more then the 50K-60K they offer. The developers hired should go to a "design" school. I worked as a consultant for IBM (not as an an employee). I had to go to a week or two of school to learn how to design and test projects their way. Just think us old geezers built a whole lot on slooow 8K - 32K machines. Jerry B
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Jun 19, 2020 23:13:12 GMT
I tried to get a license from Scott to allow me to use their catalog numbers on my Ukrainian album pages. They would not give me a license. When I asked why, they told me that they make a Ukrainian stamp album and I was their competition. When I asked how Mystic got away with it, they told me “Mystic buys ads from us.” I asked them about licensing their numbers for an online catalog and they told me that they don’t wan to compete with StampManage and EZStamp.
Meanwhile, I reached out to MICHEL to ask them about using their numbers. They asked me if I charged for my pages. I said no. An hour later I had a contract, I signed it, scanned it, and emailed it back. And then I was using MICHEL numbers at no charge.
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gmot
Member
Posts: 205
What I collect: Canada & French Morocco
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Post by gmot on Jun 20, 2020 2:12:34 GMT
Interesting discussion. I used to work in directory publishing on the software side - and it all was data driven at our tiny company in the 1990s. In fact, one of my jobs was designing the system to pull out the right data from the database & applying styling so it could render properly in the desktop publishing software we used. I was 25 at the time and definitely not the most experienced developer around, and it wasn't that difficult. So if Scott truly doesn't have their listings in some kind of backend database that is truly astounding in this day and age - they've only had the past 30 years or so...
For my identification needs, I use a combination of Scott Classic, specialized catalogues for a few areas of interest (Unitrade for Canada, Yvert/Maury for my French colonies, Michel for German) and then ezStamp for the other stuff - anything post 1940 world wide. It's pretty accurate and fairly fast to use. I found it too cumbersome for inventory purposes, but for looking up stamps it works well. On occasion I'll use stampworld too. I would never buy a Scott WW catalogue - full of useless dross and horribly organized. If anything I'll probably pick up some more Yvert or Michel cats - like them both & and you can buy many of them for the same amount of money as the Scott WW.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,698
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jun 20, 2020 10:35:09 GMT
I doubt Scott would license something without consideration or compensation. I would expect Stamp Manage to pay some combination of prepayment and per sold software license royalty. They may be suspect of your intentions. But, from what I have seem, they do not appear to be consistent. The Krause-Scott lawsuit did not change anything.
In my day job, I had to obtain licenses for software used in our products and the process was painful - long. tedious. and nitpicking.
Al
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bobstew617
Member
Posts: 376
What I collect: Switzerland, Ireland, Scandinavia, Channel Islands, Hong Kong (British Admin), PNG, others...
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Post by bobstew617 on Jun 20, 2020 20:17:40 GMT
Now that I have both the Zumstein for Switzerland/Liechtenstein and Hibernian for Ireland, I realize how inadequate Scott really is.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Jun 21, 2020 15:54:00 GMT
Now that I have both the Zumstein for Switzerland/Liechtenstein and Hibernian for Ireland, I realize how inadequate Scott really is. Sadly, the Hibernian catalog is going away. The 2020 will be the last edition ever.
The thing is, I never see anyone using the Hibernian catalog numbering system. For Ireland, it's usually Stanley Gibbons.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Jun 21, 2020 22:12:11 GMT
Wow, I didn't know they were discontinuing the Hibernian. Thanks for the heads up!
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Jun 22, 2020 3:09:12 GMT
Wow, I didn't know they were discontinuing the Hibernian. Thanks for the heads up! Yeah, the guy is retiring. That's why the 2020 is a hardback. I think he was trying to sell it to someone else to continue the work, but that never happened. I'm pretty sure the guy publishes it is German. But it's a one man show. He does all the work himself, from what I understand.
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