DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 15, 2024 22:55:51 GMT
Nice Grant.
That redirection cover above was on my watch list to bid on too, But as I had overpaid on that 1d brown pair cover above, just before it came up, I left it. Good score!
The fiscally used Chalons are not so common are they? Well done.
Dave
|
|
neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
|
Post by neilmac on Mar 16, 2024 0:41:44 GMT
I wasn't so lucky with the auction. Always next time. I did wín these two. The cover isn't rare, I just like the super crisp Edinburgh CDS, a re-direction cover The second is a poor copy, but I wanted it go on my Revenues and Duties page. I am sure it is a "Pd" 2/- ( Paid 2/- ). Also re-entry Row 18, No 5 Cheers Grant Hi Grant, I looked at that cover. I thought it was a great little cover with the two countries stamps on it. I liked the '131' cancellation across both stamps and I wasn't sure of the oblit number. I was going to buy it if no one else bid, but you did, so glad I didn't. Hackmey had a couple of these in his collection and while not his most expensive pieces he seemed to like them. Enjoy. Neil
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 17, 2024 0:54:43 GMT
I was looking thru' the RPSNZ vol.3 handbook earlier today, looking for information on the damage that occurred to Wellington's 070 duplex. Here is what it says : Next, I went looking thru' my books to see if I had examples of the above soas to follow the damage and to see the change made to indicate a time of day, via a letter index next to the 2 digit year number. Firstly, here are some examples of the '070' side of the duplex prior to the RHS being damaged : And an example of it after damage : Next is the CDS side of the duplex prior to the time index letter being added : and following the time of day posting indica being added next to the year : I find it exciting to see what is written in books, being able to be found and seen within our own collections. Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 17, 2024 19:46:45 GMT
Here are the above 070 items on the same card. Posted as I think they look quite attractive as a group Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 17, 2024 19:54:33 GMT
While going thru' my Chalon covers this morning I see I have this '070' Wellington duplex cover. Noted: It is cancelled JU 10 71 Which means that the duplex itself was still in undamaged condition at this point in time. My theory is : That sometime between mid 1871 and late 1873 it was damaged by somebody making the change to the CDS portion of the duplex, when adding the time indica. Possibly whilst placing the duplex into a vice to hold it in place to perform the operation, the vice was over-tightened causing the sides of the duplex to be compressed inwards a little! Dave
|
|
|
Post by nzgrant on Mar 17, 2024 21:59:55 GMT
I bought this stamp on EBay today. It looks like it could be a MS but I can't identify the post office. Any suggestions?
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 17, 2024 22:51:12 GMT
Initial thoughts, it looks like a 'ROSS' m/s I have.
Let me go and get it and scan it in to compare.
Any m/s is good to have, especially if you know what town/place it was used at.
Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 17, 2024 23:05:16 GMT
Well, here is my ' ROSS' m/s. Dated 10/7/66 And side by side with your one : Your one is dated 9/1/66 it looks like. Well done. Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 17, 2024 23:17:30 GMT
I have these 6 manuscripts which I am still looking to identify, if anyone can assist The last one, the imperf 2d blue, appears to have a PB '10' obliterator and a 3 word m/s! Dave
|
|
gc
Member
Posts: 289
|
Post by gc on Mar 18, 2024 4:45:19 GMT
While going thru' my Chalon covers this morning I see I have this '070' Wellington duplex cover. Noted: It is cancelled JU 10 71 Which means that the duplex itself was still in undamaged condition at this point in time. My theory is : That sometime between mid 1871 and late 1873 it was damaged by somebody making the change to the CDS portion of the duplex, when adding the time indica. Possibly whilst placing the duplex into a vice to hold it in place to perform the operation, the vice was over-tightened causing the sides of the duplex to be compressed inwards a little! Dave Hi Dave Interesting discussion. I have a couple of covers with dates. Not too conclusive as to dates of change of wear. Grant
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 18, 2024 5:30:34 GMT
This one is dated JU 10 71 Which means that the duplex itself was still in undamaged condition at this point in time. And your one shows the damage: So you have updated my theory and improved my dates of the damage occuring to between 10th June 1871 and 3rd (or is it the 8th) Sept 1872. UPDATED THEORY is: That sometime between June 1871 and Sept 1872 it was damaged by somebody making the change to the CDS portion of the duplex, when adding the time indica. Possibly whilst placing the duplex into a vice to hold it in place to perform the operation, the vice was over-tightened causing the sides of the duplex to be compressed inwards a little! Well done - oh and very nice covers too gcDave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 18, 2024 6:48:43 GMT
Well, well, well I went looking for a later date for the undamaged 070 and came across this one that we had shown earlier in this thread: SG129 (a very rare stamp!!) with an AU 8 71 date - no damage and no time index letter yet either. So we can narrow the date the damage occurred even more - to between August 8th 1871 & September 3rd 1872. Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 18, 2024 7:02:57 GMT
And a block of 6 of SG125 with damage to the 070 duplex and with the date index number now there. So a further tightening of the dates the damage occurred - to between August 8th 1871 & August 11 1872 Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 18, 2024 7:16:35 GMT
Another cover, found on the SAN site from a Spink sale: With damage to the CDS side of the duplex and with the time indica in place. Dated MY 3 72So the date of damage occurring has narrowed to between August 8th 1871 & May 3rd 1872 Dave
|
|
neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
|
Post by neilmac on Mar 20, 2024 19:17:12 GMT
That Wellington date stamp looks like it was put in a vice too!
|
|
gc
Member
Posts: 289
|
Post by gc on Mar 22, 2024 4:51:55 GMT
Another cover, found on the SAN site from a Spink sale: With damage to the CDS side of the duplex and with the time indica in place. Dated MY 3 72So the date of damage occurring has narrowed to between August 8th 1871 & May 3rd 1872 Dave Dave Have you had a close look at your newly acquired Perf10 pair on cover May surprise you. Cheers Grant
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 22, 2024 5:29:19 GMT
Thanks Grant. Not really, I saw it had a Wellington '070' duplex cancel when I was bidding but haven't had a good look until now. Here it is close up: It shows the Wellington 070 duplex, 3 strikes, but no really clear strike of the obliterator portion so cannot rule on damage to that. The CDS side is a bit clearer. A date of NO 12 71 - and the F time index letter. The CDS does look a little 'squeezed' in but not so that it touches the W of Wellington as it does more so later on. So, what is clear is that the time indica is there by 12 November 1871 ! Which means that the time indica was put there sometime between August 8th 1871 and November 12th 1871. Therefore, the damage to the duplex was probably started at this time, although not proven conclusively yet, and became progressively worse over time. Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 22, 2024 5:35:17 GMT
How did you get on at the last Mowbrays Auction - #44 on the 20th March ?
I have 2 lots coming - 1 won on the day and 1 at reserve that had been passed in.
The won lot contains over 100 Chalons including some on cover and piece.
I will share here the best bits once they arrive next week.
Dave
|
|
gc
Member
Posts: 289
|
Post by gc on Mar 22, 2024 6:12:42 GMT
Hi Dave Here is another one close to your dated cover 18-11-71 Cheers Grant
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 22, 2024 6:24:22 GMT
Yep. That shows very clearly that the obliterator side of the duplex is damaged.
The same correspondent sending regularly to this James Lyon of Kereru, Napier. There seems to be quite a bit of correspondence around for these two on the market.
James Lyon Esq. was the Chairman of the local provincial 'Roads Board' in that part of Hawkes Bay.
Dave
|
|
neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
|
Post by neilmac on Mar 27, 2024 20:14:56 GMT
Hi Everyone, I was researching the engravings of Queen Victoria used as the precursors for the Chalons and happened upon the Samuel Cousins engraving of the Chalon painting. The engraving was used by Francis Moon to publish same size prints of the original Chalon painting (75 x 50 cm). The printings were produced in 1838. The prints were so popular that Cousins was commissioned to make a second smaller engraving, 60cm x 40cm, examples were produced in October 1838 and May 1839 witha total of 1,100 copies printed. Moon then commissioned Charles Wagstaff another well known engraver to produce a three quarter length engraving 40cm x 30cm which was published in April 1839. In any case I thought what are the chances of finding one of these original prints - and voila! Got one on eBay from a dealer in the UK (£500). This copy was previously a part of the Hon Christopher Lennox-Boyd (1941-2012) collection as proven by a bill of sale. I don't have it yet but the below information and images are from the the auction. Next I'm on the hunt for a Bank of Victoria and Union Bank of Australia (NZ) banknotes which were also based on the Chalon and were also printed by Perkins, Bacon. Victoria R Queen Victoria in Coronation Robes, after Alfred Chalon The 'Coronation Portrait" Engraving by Samuel Cousins, 1838 Subject description: Portrait of Queen Victoria in coronation robes, standing in front of a balcony leaning with her left arm on the plinth of a pillar, which is decorated with a bas-relief of a lion, looking away to left, holding a ruffled cloth in her right hand, her cloak falling over the steps descending in front of her which are scattered with roses. This engraving by Samuel Cousins was used to create Queen Victoria's head on several postage stamps of the time, and became known as the 'Chalon Head'. Original painting by: Alfred Edward Chalon R.A (1780-1860) Print made by: Samuel Cousins A.R.A. (1801-1887) Published: May 1st, 1839, by FS Moon (1796-1871) Method: Etching, mezzotint, mixed method Material: Paper Condition: Good. Some evidence of slight foxing consistent with age (please examine photos) Frame: Wood Height: 105 cm Width: 75 cm Print made by: Samuel Cousins - one of the leading mezzotint engravers of his generation. Born in Exeter; apprentice (1814-18) and thereafter assistant to Samuel William Reynolds, contributed to S W Reynolds's series of prints after Joshua Reynolds (see Whitman's catalogue). His younger brother Henry Cousins also a printmaker. In 1872, planning retirement, he deposited at the British Museum an almost complete set of his work, but in the event continued to publish for at least another 12 years. Published by: Sir Francis Graham Moon, 1st Baronet - print publisher and dealer. Apprenticed to Tugwell in Threadneedle Street, he later took over the business. In 1825, in partnership with Graves and Boys took over the failed business of Hurst, Robinson as Moon, Boys & Graves (qv), while continuing his own business in Threadneedle Street. On his own from 1836. Lord Mayor in 1854. Provenance: Demonstrated by previous bill of sale/receipt included with this item (attached to the rear - see photo), the engraving was previously a part of the Hon Christopher Lennox-Boyd (1941-2012) collection.
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 28, 2024 1:40:57 GMT
Lovely items there Neil.
I have a color copy of the 'Queen Victoria in her Robes' portrait. I will post it up tomorrow.
Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 28, 2024 1:46:07 GMT
I just had these delivered to me in a small lot of 6x 1d Chalons. These 3 are SG110 Carmine-vermillion, SG111 Pale orange-vermillion and SG112 Orange I bought them mainly for SG112 Orange. The orange color is the least common of the 3 and cat at twice the other 2. It was printed in 1871 and only lasted for a few months as in October of that year they changed the color of the 1d to brown. The 2d went from blue to Orange / Vermillion and the 6d brown changed to blue at the same time. Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 28, 2024 19:54:09 GMT
I showed this Chalon on the "First Sideface" thread so will post here as well : Found it! Not as nice a strike as your one Clayton, but an example of the damaged PB '10' used at the Hutt on a Chalon none the less : And side by side with your 2d: Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 28, 2024 20:01:27 GMT
The 1837 Queen Victoria portrait - in color : Dave
|
|
neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
|
Post by neilmac on Mar 28, 2024 22:57:57 GMT
Hey Team New Zealand and friends,
One of my challenges at the moment is to find SG2 with Obliterators 4 and 15. I have 1,2,3,6/9,7,10,11,12,14,16,17,18. I don't believe there is a 5 or 13 as they were issued later but who knows because I have a '7' which must have been used on a stamp kept for a while because '7' was issued in 1860 in Wellington (who before that used '10'.
I think '4' is going to be a real challenge. I would have thought '15' less so but Nelson also had '14' with some thinking '15' was kept in reserve until '14' started to wear. Mmmmm, don't really know.
Anyway - if anyone comes across an SG2 with '4' or '15' or a less likely '5' or '13' I would love for you to let me know.
Thanks and regards,
Neil
|
|
neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
|
Post by neilmac on Mar 28, 2024 23:38:52 GMT
Hey Team New Zealand and friends, One of my challenges at the moment is to find SG2 with Obliterators 4 and 15. I have 1,2,3,6/9,7,10,11,12,14,16,17,18. I don't believe there is a 5 or 13 as they were issued later but who knows because I have a '7' which must have been used on a stamp kept for a while because '7' was issued in 1860 in Wellington (who before that used '10'. I think '4' is going to be a real challenge. I would have thought '15' less so but Nelson also had '14' with some thinking '15' was kept in reserve until '14' started to wear. Mmmmm, don't really know. Anyway - if anyone comes across an SG2 with '4' or '15' or a less likely '5' or '13' I would love for you to let me know. Thanks and regards, Neil Oh darn. Hold all bets - wow. I was just trawling through the old Hackmey auctions at Spink Shrives and saw my newly acquired but yet to be delivered SG2 '3' Hokianga, only it was described as '9' New Plymouth!!! On closer inspection - same stamp, definitely a '9', and feeling a little gutted. Oh well that's the game isn't it. Be sending that back for a refund. Spink image on left. Spink description.2d. dull blue on blued paper, good regular margins and lightly cancelled "9" at New Plymouth. Sc. 2; S.G. 2. est. US$200-300 Mowbrays on right. Mowbrays description NZ Definitives, Full Face Queens, 1855 2d dull blue on blued paper, London print, imperf 4 even margins. Fine barred "3" cancel Hokianga. RPSNZ cert (2011). SG 2. Cat £700. VFU. Eat. $NZ525-750 Oh I've just this second read the description again. It comes with a certificate!!! wtf. Oh, forgive my French. You've got to be kidding. What do you all think?? Obvious isn't it? A certificate? I'll be copying and pasting that here if it arrives before I send it back! Although maybe as an after thought the certificate wasn't issued for the oblit., just the stamp. We'll see.
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 29, 2024 0:15:42 GMT
I have about 7 - 8 SG2's so will see what I have there. Looking at your SG2 with a 9 or a 3 oblit. It depends on the orientation of the stamp as to what you may see for the PB number : This way you see a '3': and this way a '9': but, of course, it is a '9'. Dave
|
|
DK
Member
Posts: 1,535
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
|
Post by DK on Mar 29, 2024 0:34:02 GMT
It turns out I have 9 SG2's - although one is decidedly lacking in margins (I use that one to show the 'bluing' effect on the paper!) 2x have a PB 1 - Auckland - one lacking in margins but used to demonstrate the 'bluing' effect on the back 3x have a PB 9 - New Plymouth1x has a PB 11 - Ahuriri - but it is rather faint, so I will not show that one. 2x in a pair have a PB 12 - Wanganui1x has a PB 16 - Lyttelton - looks brighter than the other 8, perhaps it has been washed by a previous owner to clean it up a bit! So, I am missing quite a few of the PB's then! Another project Dave
|
|
neilmac
Member
Thanks for having me - glad to be here. Looking forward to learning more in 2024! Cheers!
Posts: 242
What I collect: NZ - especially FFQ, Pigeongrams and Postage Dues
|
Post by neilmac on Mar 29, 2024 1:03:28 GMT
It turns out I have 9 SG2's - although one is decidedly lacking in margins (I use that one to show the 'bluing' effect on the paper!) 2x have a PB 1 - Auckland - one lacking in margins but used to demonstrate the 'bluing' effect on the back 3x have a PB 9 - New Plymouth1x has a PB 11 - Ahuriri - but it is rather faint, so I will not show that one. 2x in a pair have a PB 12 - Wanganui1x has a PB 16 - Lyttelton - looks brighter than the other 8, perhaps it has been washed by a previous owner to clean it up a bit! So, I am missing quite a few of the PB's then! Another project Dave Nice collection. Nice pair. Real nice. I don't have a multiple of a London print. Have the bisect and a 2d cover with an additional 2 x 2d on piece, but no multiple. There's a thing to rectify. I do have a spare '10' 2d somewhere. Let me take another look.
|
|