henrye
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Post by henrye on Oct 1, 2020 5:04:46 GMT
I have a few older German stamps that were in a collecting book given to me many years ago. To the best of my knowledge, the stamps have been in it for almost 90 years. Even so, the cancellations on a few could still be phony. Is there any easy way to tell? Short of the expense of a good appraiser, of course.
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Post by classicalstamps on Oct 1, 2020 10:54:26 GMT
The short answer is: No.
The bit longer answer is that you minimally need is a reference library of: 1. Literature (knowledge) 2. Images of known genuine to compare against. (or stamps themselves, but that is typically not feasible)
You can get high resolution images of certified material from several auction sites.
It is a lot of work..
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Beryllium Guy
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 1, 2020 12:02:31 GMT
Thanks for your post, Henry ( henrye ). I would encourage you to include images with your posts, as it always gives members more to go on when trying to respond. You did an exemplary job of that on the Bavaria gray-color 20-pfennig issue, and it really made the discussion get rolling. If you are able to provide some examples of the stamps you are concerned about, it will give some great visual context to your question.
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henrye
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Post by henrye on Oct 1, 2020 16:25:23 GMT
Hi res images of certified ones would be nice to find. The appraiser is going to have to wait a bit. If nothing else, that could give me more confidence in them being genuine. It might be a lot of work per stamp, but I only have a few that I wonder about so it won't be too bad (I hope). Thanks for the compliment on the Bavarian stamp. I took a lot of images to get ones good enough to post. Here are images of two of the ones I am interested in:
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Oct 1, 2020 16:38:41 GMT
henrye here is a link to a Hamburg stamp with a cancellation similar to your first stamp (although not the same denomination). There are a number of stamps on e-Bay, some having certificates (which may not be conclusive as fake certificates have been known of)
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henrye
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Post by henrye on Oct 1, 2020 21:50:33 GMT
Thanks for the link, Stan. I did actually see that one when I searched ebay. In fact, I found the same 9s stamp as mine, for sale with an almost identical cancel as mine, on ebay about 6 months ago. This prompted me to list it for sale. The listing for mine is www.ebay.com/itm/264877005101I made sure to avoid any language that it is a genuine cancel because I really don't know. BTW, did you see the rig I cobbled together for taking my images? Something like that might help you see the watermark on that Bavarian tax stamp without removing the piece of envelope it is on: thestampforum.boards.net/thread/5747/bavaria-issues?page=2
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renden
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Post by renden on Oct 1, 2020 22:06:10 GMT
I would ask for a cert. !!!!!!!!! and check the certification after Postmarks expertise on a Web scan makes me tremble René
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Oct 2, 2020 14:45:53 GMT
henrye instead of sunlight I found that just holding the stamp on paper in front of bright LED light seems to show the watermark- thanks for starting the wheels spinning!
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Post by classicalstamps on Oct 2, 2020 18:10:33 GMT
Forged postmarks on Thurn & Taxis are abundant. This is what I would recommend for your reference library: A complete collection of images of genuine to compare against. The first 25: Then, after looking at a lot of postmarks, you will notice the genuine have the following characteristics: - The numerals are well formed and consistent
- The numerals are often curved with long serifs
- The end balls on numerals such as 5, 6, 9 tend to be large
- Serifs on the stem of 1, 7 tend to be long on both sides
- The rings tend to be even, not blotchy and evenly spaced
For the fun of it, compare "treasure" on eBay to your ref. collection: A few examples (genuine on the left): Down this long fun/frustrating road of research begs the question: Is your own specimen genuine?
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henrye
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Post by henrye on Oct 3, 2020 1:38:07 GMT
That's pretty cool, Stan. Glad to help. That is a great selection of cancellations, classicalstamps. I may even be able to narrow it down with that. Thanks!!! Actually, looking those cacellations over, flipping my stamp 180 degrees and looking at 24. Very very possible. Not saying it is real but that it seems to be a match for 24. Thoughts?
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Post by classicalstamps on Oct 3, 2020 10:45:25 GMT
I would guess there is a 3rd (1st) digit, but hard to see. This complicates things. As you can see, there are different 4's:
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henrye
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Post by henrye on Oct 3, 2020 17:37:08 GMT
You have a good point there. A third digit is likely. Looking at it again though, I would swear the last two are 24. Got any 3 digit cancels that end in 24?
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Post by classicalstamps on Oct 3, 2020 17:50:15 GMT
I have two:
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henrye
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Post by henrye on Oct 4, 2020 4:15:42 GMT
Those are excellent. Thanks!!! I especially like the 224. (Actually, they both look good. LOL) How do you get stamp images to turn out like this? Trying to bring out more detail, I've edited stamp images with photoshop but have never gotten this intense of a contrast between a stamp and the cancellation mark.
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henrye
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Post by henrye on Oct 4, 2020 6:27:25 GMT
Looking at the the last two images you posted is interesting. Especially when you get the negative image. the 424 is odd. In the negative, it looks as if the 2 has a 'shadow'. It makes me wonder if some of the ones that are supposed to be fake, may not be. What if a postmaster had to recut or otherwise repair his/her cancellation stamper? There would be little to no consistancy and we would even see some that looked downright sloppy. Being a good postmaster was probably more important than the ability to make/alter/repair a cancellation stamper.
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Post by classicalstamps on Oct 4, 2020 10:01:54 GMT
You are fast approaching the "for the specialist" area. These questions can become hypothesis for researching articles or even a book.
You need a lot of material / images to go there :-)
Myself, I collect high res. images of certified genuine stamps for this very purpose.
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henrye
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Post by henrye on Oct 5, 2020 0:23:21 GMT
Gonna shy away from the specialist area. Were the cancellation stampers made of wood or metal? I was envisioning a postmaster touching up or repairing one. Back then a replacement might have taken time. Although they probably did have spares.
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