Mr. H
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What I collect: US, Netherlands, Whatever suits my fancy.
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Post by Mr. H on Oct 3, 2020 1:24:35 GMT
I am working through my accumulations that I soaked off earlier this year and found several examples where the color seems to has washed out. Does anyone have a guess on what might have happened to them? I'd like to keep it from occurring again if it can be avoided. I've included an example of what is should look like and the washed out version. Both were done around the same time.
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philatelia
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Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
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What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Oct 3, 2020 2:43:13 GMT
Those were left in the soaking water too long. Some of those issues from those years were prone to fading when soaked, but if you removed them from the water immediately after the adhesive loosened they were ok. I also noticed that they faded more if the water was too warm. You see it was common to use very warm water with the early self adhesives - helped to get them off the paper faster. But - they DID soak at least!
Those Christmas coils were some of the worst for fading. I gave up and started leaving them on paper.
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ajkitt
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What I collect: Classics, Central Europe, World
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Post by ajkitt on Oct 3, 2020 4:50:24 GMT
Those were left in the soaking water too long. Some of those issues from those years were prone to fading when soaked, but if you removed them from the water immediately after the adhesive loosened they were ok. I also noticed that they faded more if the water was too warm. You see it was common to use very warm water with the early self adhesives - helped to get them off the paper faster. But - they DID soak at least! Those Christmas coils were some of the worst for fading. I gave up and started leaving them on paper. Does anyone have a list of these problematic ones? I'm a "boil them in the microwave" kind of get-those-self-adhesives-off-the-paper guy, and it didn't take long to figure out that yep, some stamps don't like that. I hate losing stamps to my own impatience and stupidity. Also, I'm always looking for new ways to try to get those dang Brits with the oblong knockouts off paper. Does anyone have a method that won't destroy half of them?
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Mr. H
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Member - APS #129381
Posts: 935
What I collect: US, Netherlands, Whatever suits my fancy.
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Post by Mr. H on Oct 3, 2020 13:15:41 GMT
So far I've only noticed that it happened with stamps from that era. For the most part I was watching them soak, but I'm sure there was a time or two that I got interrupted and let them sit for a while. I'll try to remember to keep a better eye on them next time.
I know the Scott US specialized catalog has a little red dot as a warning for the ones that are difficult/impossible to soak off. It would be nice if they could also list the fading issue. I'll take a careful look and try to put together a list of the ones I find.
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 3, 2020 14:03:12 GMT
Thanks for your comments, Mr. H . It would be great if you would create a list of all stamps that you find are susceptible to color fading from over-soaking and then post it here. As a classic era collector, I have encountered water-soluble, fugitive inks that will either fade or disappear altogether when soaked in water. I am planning to start a thread on TSF that can be used as a resource, which can function as a guide to any stamps that can be damaged by soaking in water. I would be very happy to include your findings in this area, so please don't hesitate to post information here as you discover it. Thank you!
Edit: Terri ( philatelia ), if you already know which ones these are likely to fall into this category from your experience, please let me know a range of catalogue numbers. Thanks! Of course, any members are welcome to contribute information from their experience, but I'm just not sure who all to ask!
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Mr. H
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What I collect: US, Netherlands, Whatever suits my fancy.
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Post by Mr. H on Oct 4, 2020 0:50:20 GMT
Here are a few that I have seen the problem on, I'll add more as I find them.
Scott # Description 3660 Duke Kahanamoku 3680-83 Christmas Snowmen - coils 3812 Roy Acuff 3814-18 Reptiles and Amphibians 3944 Jim Henson and the Muppets 3949-52 Christmas Cookies
4021-4 Benjamin Franklin 4033-72 Wonders of America 4077 Judy Garland
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 4, 2020 8:50:27 GMT
Many thanks, Mr. H, this looks great. Contributions like this will push me finally to start the thread on Fugitive Inks that I have been contemplating for eons. Please keep adding to the list as you find more examples. I will return to this thread periodically for updates. Thank you very much for getting this going!
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henrye
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Post by henrye on Oct 9, 2020 1:55:11 GMT
Since water can cause a stamp to fade out, what about the solutions that are specifically made for removing a stamp from paper? Do they also cause fading, or any other problems? I have had sunlight suggested as a possibility for a faded Bavarian stamp I have, and knowing how many books I have with faded spines, that seems quite possible.
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khj
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Post by khj on Oct 9, 2020 2:53:37 GMT
"Pure" water, by itself, doesn't really cause a stamp to fade, unless the stamp has been printed in aniline (or some other water-soluble) ink. It's the "bleaching" agents that might be in the water, such as Cl- ions. Most tap water in big cities contain higher levels than "typical" tap water, and the most common residential/consumer water purification/softening units aren't designed to remove Cl- or may even increase it (as was the case when I used to use a salt-regenerated water softener).
Unless you use deionized water, you just simply have to be careful about soaking too long and avoiding warm water. If you must use warm water or soak for a really long time and are running into the fading problem using your house/local water, there's a quick solution that will remove most Cl- type bleaching agents: boil the water briefly, that will push out most of the chlorine into the air. After it cools, use that for long-term or warm-water soaking. Of course, you'll probably introduce higher metals into the water, but that isn't going to cause the stamps any problems.
Philatelic solutions sold to remove used water-activated-gum stamps from paper (such as "Stamp Lift Fluid") work very quickly. While I rarely use those solutions, I've never had problems with them damaging the printing on the stamp. I don't soak modern stamps, but from what I've read/heard, products such as "Pure Citrus", "Bestine" (be very careful with this) have worked well on many modern self-adhesive stamps; but again, watch out for affects on cancels and be aware of possible problems with some engraved stamps/inks.
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Oct 9, 2020 13:44:58 GMT
How is distilled water? I use that when making coffee in machines - I also use a "Clever" cone for freshly ground beans, but use tap water with it.
Distilled should be safe, right? I haven't tried it, but just thought now that it would be much better than tap water.
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khj
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Post by khj on Oct 9, 2020 17:26:47 GMT
Yes, distilled water is basically water that has been evaporated and then condensed again, so it will have significantly less bleaching ions and insolubles than tap water. That's certainly an option if you have to use warm water to soak stamps -- save you the trouble of boiling the water yourself.
Of course, I don't advise directly drinking distilled water directly if it's been stored for more than a few weeks. The reduced ion content also means bacteria have one less enemy to face. It's not a problem with coffee machines because you are "electrically boiling" the water again.
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 9, 2020 18:43:49 GMT
Since water can cause a stamp to fade out, what about the solutions that are specifically made for removing a stamp from paper? Do they also cause fading, or any other problems? Henry, I have used the Stamp-Lift Fluid with good success, but only in one specific application: I have used it for removing hinges or adherent paper on stamps with water-soluble (fugitive) inks. In those cases, I have found that the fluid, used sparingly, will permit the removal of the adherent bits without compromising the fugitive ink. But I have also found that if I use too much fluid, it can still cause fugitive inks to run, although the effect is not as instantaneous as it is with water.
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