Andy Pastuszak
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Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,533
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on May 8, 2021 22:43:42 GMT
I'd like to find a binder I can buy in the US that has more than 3 rings and has a hole punch available for it. I found some art binders that had 12 or 14 rings, but the rings were plastic and the cover was soft and flimsy.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,329
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on May 9, 2021 10:30:47 GMT
If you like Lighthouse brand binders you could ask a US Lighthouse seller to order some for you.
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brightonpete
Departed
Rest in Peace
On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on May 9, 2021 15:32:53 GMT
I bought a Lindner binder, which comes with 14 metal rings, but is a bit pricey. OK for one or two, but if you are looking for more, too much! I found them at Palo Albums, as no one in Canada seems to sell them, at least from what I could find.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,446
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Post by khj on May 9, 2021 18:40:42 GMT
Could you clarify -- do you already have pre-existing album pages with set number of holes/rings (e.g., 12-hole) and are looking for dedicated binder and hole punch to match?
Or are you simply looking for something better than the usual 3-ring (e.g., can be 4-ring, 5-ring, 12-ring, 14-ring...) and want a source for binders and hole punch to match?
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renden
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Posts: 8,705
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on May 9, 2021 18:45:23 GMT
A part of my Canada Collection is into 5 Lindner Canada binders - practical but not for varieties as they show only pics of the stamps - for that much $$$$$$$ my late dad paid, he could have had better - They are nice and cuddly, all burgundy....practical at times, not always - Nothing beats custom albums. So I started a CANADA 1 Custom album and the classics are out of Lindner.
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chrischross
Member
Posts: 206
What I collect: France, French Africa, FSAT, French Polynesia
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Post by chrischross on May 10, 2021 2:17:01 GMT
I'm facing similar challenges -- the Lighthouse Grande in the USA is a three-post binder system, for 8 1/2 x 11". Of course, Europe doesn't give a rip about non-metric sizing, and the MOC pages I've been picking up lately are A4 sized and require the four-post Grande binder. The distribution supply chain for this is all outside of the USA.
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chrischross
Member
Posts: 206
What I collect: France, French Africa, FSAT, French Polynesia
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Post by chrischross on May 10, 2021 18:46:55 GMT
Lo and behold, just got in the shipment of A4 sized Grande binders, and they're nice (at 24 euros a pop, they better be, lol). I have to admit, the A4 size is really nice, and I'm committed to using metric in all future projects. There's a reason why DIN A4 is a standard.
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mikeclevenger
Member
Posts: 887
What I collect: Ohio Tax Stamps, Ohio & Georgia Revenues, US Revenues, US FDC's, & Germany Classics
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Post by mikeclevenger on May 11, 2021 8:51:39 GMT
Good luck finding a hole punch. The most I can find is a 6 hole, and I need 13 -16 hole punches. I have plenty of albums, just no hole punches to match.
Have a great day.
Mike
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,329
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on May 11, 2021 10:11:55 GMT
What do you see as the advantage of A4 size from a stamp collecting aspect? Compared to US Letter, A4 is 5.9mm narrower so means less page real estate on page. What I would like to see is more sizes larger than A4/Letter, Most pre-printed stamp albums are a non-standard size.
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chrischross
Member
Posts: 206
What I collect: France, French Africa, FSAT, French Polynesia
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Post by chrischross on May 13, 2021 21:43:33 GMT
What do you see as the advantage of A4 size from a stamp collecting aspect? Compared to US Letter, A4 is 5.9mm narrower so means less page real estate on page. What I would like to see is more sizes larger than A4/Letter, Most pre-printed stamp albums are a non-standard size. For one, I really don't like that the "Grande" is in non-A4 sizing only in the North American market. So it means that we're just out of step, and I'd argue, it causes issues all up and down the supply chain. DIN A4 is a world standard for a reason and I'm just tired of thinking in "imperial" units. I'd argue too that this just cripples supply vendors in the United States, as I don't even bother checking their stock, because I already know the answer. With most of the Francophone proof sheets I'm collecting, width isn't the concern, but height is.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,446
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Post by khj on May 13, 2021 22:56:15 GMT
Good luck finding a hole punch. The most I can find is a 6 hole, and I need 13 -16 hole punches. I have plenty of albums, just no hole punches to match. Have a great day. Mike It's hard to find specific punch #/position to meet the various album-makers, and can get really pricey if you have multiple manufacturers as they each like to "standardize" on different ring #/positions. For example, Schaubek (6 rings), Lighthouse (13 rings), Safe (14 rings), Kabe (16 rings), Lindner (18 rings) just to name a few. Consider getting an adjustable/upgradeable hole punch, not the fixed #/position punches. On the adjustable/upgradeable hole punches, there are individual punch modules that you can shift position on the rod. You can also add punch modules as needed to make it 2, 3, 4... holes -- theoretically as many as you can pack onto the rod, although ultimately you will be limited by the width of each punch module. I assume somewhere they still make/sell these, and I assume they probably aren't cheap either because of low sales quantities. The last time I acquired one was 40+ years ago. They were ugly, but rugged. I could punch up to 10-20 pages at a time without deforming the holes, although I did crack one of the modules once. I'm thinking your local copy shop probably knows a vendor for these types of punches. I actually keep a "mini-collection" of various hole punches in my storage unit. Most of them were discarded by engineering firms and other offices as they moved or shut down -- nowadays, they have a fire sale instead of just letting people take stuff they don't use anymore. It's interesting to see the different methods they used to make a hole punch multi-functional to meet 2-11 hole styles and different paper sizes that were used in various fields/applications. Best wishes on finding one you need...
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mikeclevenger
Member
Posts: 887
What I collect: Ohio Tax Stamps, Ohio & Georgia Revenues, US Revenues, US FDC's, & Germany Classics
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Post by mikeclevenger on May 14, 2021 9:42:32 GMT
Consider getting an adjustable/upgradeable hole punch, not the fixed #/position punches. On the adjustable/upgradeable hole punches, there are individual punch modules that you can shift position on the rod. You can also add punch modules as needed to make it 2, 3, 4... holes -- theoretically as many as you can pack onto the rod, although ultimately you will be limited by the width of each punch module. I assume somewhere they still make/sell these, and I assume they probably aren't cheap either because of low sales quantities. Well, I looked into this. The best I could find was a 6 hole punch, that had 12 positions. So, you could buy two punches and make a 12 hole punch, but I need 13 holes or more. The small punches that fit into these bases, are too wide to match the holes on a 13, 14, or 16. So even if you put 13 small punches side by side, they were wider than the Lighthouse 13 holes. So then I looked into punching 6 or 7 holes at a time. Well, the holes these small punches make are too big, the holes in the lighthouse pages are small.
I did find a company who makes hole punches for such special needs, but it was at a cost of $500 plus to buy one, and I will never recoup that cost, since I don't use that many pages. So, instead, I just look on Ebay every week to find someone selling off an album with blank pages. So far, I have about 200 blank pages, not too bad. It is enough to do the current projects I want to do.
good luck and let me know if you find anything better than I did.
Have a great day.
Mike.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,446
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Post by khj on May 14, 2021 16:05:30 GMT
I guess the OP was about binders, rather than hole punches, but this may still be relevant. Agreed, the US punches make large holes. However, I prefer that as it makes bulk page turning (20-30 pages) smoother.
On my old-style commercial hole punches, I can adjust the paper edge guide, so in essence shift the holes vertically on the page. So if I wanted to, I can punch 8 holes (every other hole), shift, and punch the other 8 holes to make 16 holes. Then I don't have to worry about whether I can pack the modules tight enough. Same can be done for odd number of holes. It should be batches, as adjusting the paper edge guide takes a little "testing" each adjustment. I don't actually do this for stamp album pages, but it shouldn't matter what kind of page I'm punching.
And yeah, I didn't think they were cheap, especially now as there are probably only a handful of companies that make them commercially. It's the digital age, and commercial hole punches are going the way of the buggy whip. Also, the modules vary by manufacturer and aren't interchangeable. Guess the hole punch manufacturers and the album page manufacturers got a racket going!
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,446
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Post by khj on May 14, 2021 16:15:54 GMT
I did a quick check online, and it looks like manufacturers are going toward the 3-hole modules instead of the 1-hole modules. That means the spacing among the 3 individual holes in each module is not adjustable. You would need to find one that matches the spacing you are looking for.
And again, the same problem with hole size (if that's important to you). I only saw a couple that had the adjustable paper guides -- the rest were fixed edges.
I guess it's really the case of -- they don't make them like they used to.
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brightonpete
Departed
Rest in Peace
On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on May 14, 2021 16:42:26 GMT
Can you not take the pages to a print shop and get the holes punched?
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,446
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Post by khj on May 14, 2021 17:03:01 GMT
That's a question I'm sure others were wondering about as well! Don't know about how things are in Canada or elsewhere in the US, but in my region the problem is 2-fold:
1. Large/chain print shops rely on volume. Most of their equipment now is either highly-automated or dedicated machinery. When it comes to binding, they give you the options, rather than customer asking them to custom punch/bind according to customer specifications. The smaller local print shops are willing to accommodate if their equipment can be adjusted, but for custom jobs they have a set-up charge which is not practical for punching a couple hundred pages. I ran into this issue when we were producing high volume cassette tapes and CDs. The cassette tapes, I couldn't do much about it, just pay the nominal set-up charge. But the CDs, we ended up buying a duplicator and doing it ourselves "on-demand".
2. They will demonstrate one example, and then put it in the job queue. Roughly 10% of the time, they will still mess up the job because another worker finishes the job incorrectly. They'll redo it, but you've lost the time and any custom paper. So unless they can do the job immediately, I don't give the chain print shops large custom jobs anymore. In fact, I went ahead and purchased dedicated hole punches for standard ring-hole, comb, and spiral binding. We'll mess up maybe 1-2 out of 100, but that's better than 99 out of 100 every 10 orders.
But yeah, it can't hurt to ask your local print shop.
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gmot
Member
Posts: 205
What I collect: Canada & French Morocco
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Post by gmot on May 14, 2021 18:18:49 GMT
Your mileage will vary depending on the shop of course, but I've found a great local print shop and he's done some custom orders for me at reasonable prices/quick turnaround.
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mikeclevenger
Member
Posts: 887
What I collect: Ohio Tax Stamps, Ohio & Georgia Revenues, US Revenues, US FDC's, & Germany Classics
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Post by mikeclevenger on May 15, 2021 10:24:00 GMT
Thanks everyone for the info. I would love to be able to make my own pages to fit my Lighthouse & Lindner albums. Thanks, Mike.
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ameis33
Member
What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet
Posts: 505
What I collect: Poland and Italy Republic
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Post by ameis33 on May 15, 2021 19:49:56 GMT
In Italy there are several suppliers of philatelic materials, but we have a completely different standard. Album pages are usually 27x29 cm, wider than a normal A4 sheet. And they have 22 holes. Bolaffi makes pages a tittle bit bigger, i don't know the size in cm, but 24 holes. The 24 holes have the same step then the 22 ones, but they're higher. Usual 4 holes binder that can be normally found for office supplies doesn't match with the 22/24 holes, so you're forced to buy specific binders. If you can easily find 4 holes punches, it's pretty impossible to find 22 holes ones. Now i don't want to turn it into a commercial advertissement, but i cannot not to suggest this site www.philatelio.itIt's the site of a friend of mine, Luciano, which is also registered on the forum. He works as graphic close to typographies. The idea is that for him, to print an album page whatever size is needed with whatever perforation (from 3 to 24 holes) is not that different. He's able to provide album for almost every country in the world (if not all, most of them), but he can also print pages with a specific format supplied by the customer as PDF file. The pages are of high quality and the cost of such personalized printed pages is not so expansive, compared with the cost of preparing the same page at home, and at least worth the expanse to evaluate them. I don't know which can be the shipment cost outside Italy, but my suggestion is to consider this solution. The site is in italian, but if you could be interested, please send him an email with your request.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,533
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Jun 1, 2021 1:51:19 GMT
Could you clarify -- do you already have pre-existing album pages with set number of holes/rings (e.g., 12-hole) and are looking for dedicated binder and hole punch to match? Or are you simply looking for something better than the usual 3-ring (e.g., can be 4-ring, 5-ring, 12-ring, 14-ring...) and want a source for binders and hole punch to match? I want a binder with more than 3 rings and a hole punch to match. I don't have any existing pages with more than 3 rings punched.
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guilloutran
Member
Account Temporarily Disabled
Colllecting France
Posts: 202
What I collect: Western Europe (pre-Euro), France and colonies (pre-1995), United States and Canada (pre-1980, engraved ->2000), British colonies and United Kingdom (engrave to 2000)
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Post by guilloutran on Jun 7, 2021 10:55:49 GMT
Another solution to this, I think, is using a 1 hole puncher. All you have to do is using another 4 hole punched paper as the template and then using a 1 hole puncher to align with the existed hole and punch other paper match with the template.
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DrewM
**Member**
Posts: 26
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Post by DrewM on Mar 27, 2022 23:08:38 GMT
I often use 22-ring binders. Page turning with mulitple ringss is much easier than with American 3-rings which tend to snag the paper much more easily. More rings makes for smoother page turning. These are not sold by U.S. sellers, but it's easy to get 22-ring binders from the UK and shipping is not as bad as you might think. My main two sources are Dauwalders Stamp Shop and Prinz Publications, both in the UK. Both have websites. Italian Marini albums (and Yvert in France) also both sell 22 ring binders (and blank paper).
All of these sources sell 22-hole blank paper for these binders, making your doing the hole punching unnecessary. Just print on the blank 22-hole paper. Besides Dauwalders and Prinz, a good source for 22-hole punched blank paper is Marini, the Italian album maker. They have a website. Spend some time searching (in Italian!) until you find the blank paper page. You can get blank pages in either blank or quadrille. I buy dozens of packs of paper at a time and have it shipped. Not as expensive as you might think.
If you want to punch 22 holes in your own blank paper, as I have many times, you can find 22-hole punches on EBay -- if you're willing to look for awhile. The 22-hole punch is a standard punch for industrial hole punching and from time to time you'll see these punches for sale on Ebay. Don't give up. They come in a manageable desktop size, they have a handle for hand punching, and they work well. Ask about pin size as they can come with small hole pins and large hole pins. I find larger holes make for easier-to-use pages, but both will work. I've even punched Lighthouse Vario stock pages with 22 holes to fit my 22-ring binders. Even though these pages come with holes already punched in them, some of the new holes either line up with the old holes or the new holes are indistinguishable from the old. In any case, the result is a good looking page that looks like it was made for a 22-ring binder.
Have fun!
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