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Post by NordicTraveler on Aug 11, 2021 2:26:49 GMT
I have been collecting Iceland for a long time and have a lot, but these are difficult. I recently found this at the bottom of a box from the estate, auction. I've sent it to the best on Stamp Island. To Mr Møller in Germany. Waiting anxiously for an answer. What do you think ? P12 3/4 nice mark, missing three tags lower right corner, otherwise good. I mean postcancel clearly characterizes PRIR and then it becomes, prir came first. then it should be real. I think so. fun to hear what others would think?
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 11, 2021 6:43:59 GMT
Perhaps Robert WERT could do the magic with his software and show which is on top, the surcharge 3 , prir or the cancel?
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Post by NordicTraveler on Aug 11, 2021 11:40:41 GMT
my suggestion is red 3, prir and cancel
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 11, 2021 16:30:11 GMT
I agree that would be the happiest result,…….. but black on top of black is always going to be tricky . Good luck with the result
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Aug 11, 2021 17:21:45 GMT
Hi NordicTraveler I am posting my observations of your stamp..Remember, just my personal opinion wheather right or wrong.
First pic is your stamp...
Looking at bottom cancel...
Double stamp on "PRIR" or BRIR"...
Odd shape of last "R"...
Over print....
CONCLUSION.. I believe the bottom cancel was added latter than the original cancel. Double over print on "BRIR" or "PRIR" Just my opinion..I used colour change to see more details..
Robert
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khj
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Post by khj on Aug 11, 2021 18:47:58 GMT
Great details, pics, markings... Robert! A couple of comments: 1. Two separate cancels means one will be over the other. Doesn't necessarily mean 2nd cancel is fake. Only that it was the 2nd cancel applied. 2. The extra part on the right side of the stem on the 2nd "r" seems to be normal one type of the genuine overprints. So in this case, I don't think it is a double overprint, but its normal state. To me, the question is not the order of the surcharge/overprint/cancel, but whether all 3 are genuine. Morten has some examples of genuine surcharge/overprint types, along with a wide variety of forgeries, on his website. The prir overprint looks close to one of the genuine overprints (the one with a level base, not the one with the elevated "i"), but still looks a little different in other spots. But I don't know if those small differences are typical for genuine. Hopefully, classicalstamps can chime in.
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 11, 2021 19:02:12 GMT
Agree with the above. The “r” is indeed normal, not doubled. And the second cancel almost certainly legitimate and not fake. It could be a transit cancel or an arrival at destination date stamp. ….it looks possibly Danish to me , but then Iceland was Danish pre 1940. So Egil NordicTraveler , did you have the whole card or is it just a piece? We would love to see more of the second cancel . I do not think it is fake……..there would be no reason for anyone to fake a second cancel
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Post by NordicTraveler on Aug 11, 2021 21:19:13 GMT
A little late feedback, fixing the caravan too ..., thank you very much for good expert help.
The image is cut at the very edge of the piece of paper, but I cut the image so that I straightened it up a bit to get a "calmer" image. The piece itself is not larger, you can see some of the edges in the lower corners. I could have taken a new picture but it has also been sent to Germany. Because Mr Møller asked me to take the stamp off the paper for a better assessment of the watermark. WM that I thought should NOT be on this brand?
At least what I found on stampworld, colnect etc. I do not have Icelandic Literature yet, books are shamefully expensive in Norway. I recently bought some manuals for Posthorn Norway. Hundreds of dollars just for that. There's something I never want to understand, the prices of philately literature / catalogs .... but that's another topic
So I grew out of what Mr Møller said, something I otherwise would never have done in this case. I found standing King's Crown. Then he said I SHOULD send this for verification. He got many good scanners first and was positive.
I agree with what is found here, the truth can be brutal. But as the rest of you say, even though the order may seem whimsical on cancel etc, it MUST not be false for that reason. When it comes to "prir" I found a database of fake and original prints. When I via photoshop put the real over, fit perfectly.
So this is possibly an object that requires deep consideration..more assessments. I first sent it to one of the most renowned experts in Norway, they approved of the stamp itself and overprints, but would not conclude on the order. So therefore forwarded on the recommendation of the Norwegian expert. I will find the picture watermark again
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Post by NordicTraveler on Aug 11, 2021 21:55:15 GMT
little fast on keybord i see, my english writing will never be good :-) use "translate" sometimes
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Post by NordicTraveler on Aug 11, 2021 22:04:08 GMT
on this picture i see some red and black dots wm, standing crown Mr Møller said there is a one stamp with the same overprints and standing crown, so if mine is correct it will be the second one if I understood this correctly
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Post by NordicTraveler on Aug 11, 2021 22:06:14 GMT
Thanks Wert ,nice that someone will do that job
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Aug 11, 2021 22:51:40 GMT
NordicTraveler..You are welcome...A lot of people fly speck and some don't...Last opinion, just going back to collecting stamps. Stay safe my friend. vikingeck..Stay safe.
Robert
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Post by NordicTraveler on Aug 12, 2021 1:02:07 GMT
I'll do that Robert, learning a little every day
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Aug 12, 2021 1:08:34 GMT
Hi NordicTraveler If you are serious about flyspecking, remember what i tell collectors at our stamp club...Just 2 sentences.
1 - See what is there that should not be there. 2 - See what is not there that should be.
Robert
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Post by NordicTraveler on Aug 12, 2021 16:23:47 GMT
Robert
I totally agree with you and possibly my bad grammar does not get it conveyed properly.
So to your 2 sentences, totally agree.
I also follow another good rule. If you are looking for or think you have found something look first for indicators that it is not, then save a lot of time
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Post by NordicTraveler on Aug 26, 2021 21:39:37 GMT
Hello then the answer has come from Germany and that was good news. The stamp is genuine, overprint 3 and Prir are genuine (large) and cancel is genuine. Afa No. 18, Type BII But no info on the rarity of BII, anyone know anything? cancel the day after release
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khj
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Post by khj on Aug 26, 2021 22:47:08 GMT
Congratulations NordicTraveler! I am admittedly jealous! I found a database of fake and original prints. If this database is open to the public, could you either post a link or post the pics?
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Post by NordicTraveler on Aug 27, 2021 0:52:40 GMT
khjsorry, I should not have said it until I find the page again, it was not saved and it is a while ago, looking
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Post by dgdecker on Aug 27, 2021 3:00:35 GMT
Great to hear you had positive news on this stamp Nordic Traveller. I some how missed the original post. It was very thrilling to red the input and explanations provided by the other Forum members. From context I have been able to translate most of what was written on the certificate. For the rest I will use a translator. Now to find out a potential value.
David
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khj
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Post by khj on Aug 27, 2021 3:29:25 GMT
khjsorry, I should not have said it until I find the page again, it was not saved and it is a while ago, looking No problem. I've got enough to work with as it is. But if you ever find it, please post and tag me so that I will see it. Thank you, and again, congratulations and well done!
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Post by NordicTraveler on Aug 27, 2021 8:57:31 GMT
khj / dgdecker, thanks
Yes it was nice to get the authenticity certified.
And possibly the certificate should have been written in English ....
excited about potential value, has searched the net but finds none sold with wm II and big Prir
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Aug 27, 2021 9:16:41 GMT
Congratulations Egil(@ NordicTraveler ); that is quite the find! It is encouraging to know that discoveries can still be made by the astute collector :-)
US, British & Worldwide Sale 633 December 12-14, 2012
Lot n.º 1531. 1897, small "þrir/3" on 5a green (32), canceled par tial Reyk ja vik cds, bright and fresh, F.-V.F. Michel 18 IIB.
At a minimum, I think you could get an auction estimate from the house if you provide them with the details. Keeping in mind, the values: auction value, direct-sale value and insurance value can vary widely.
Thanks for showing and again, congratulations...
Happy collecting!
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JeffS
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Post by JeffS on Aug 27, 2021 10:20:06 GMT
Congratulations on a most excellent find!
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Post by NordicTraveler on Aug 27, 2021 12:03:44 GMT
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khj
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Post by khj on Aug 27, 2021 17:33:08 GMT
OK, I was already aware of that one. I thought you had another. But thank you.
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