Beryllium Guy
Moderator 
Posts: 5,654 
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Apr 24, 2022 8:32:00 GMT
I agree that this latest example from the auction is indeed an SON beauty, Dave ( DK ), thanks for posting it. Thanks also for your comments about my last posted example from Port Chalmers, which just goes to show that town population alone does not always correlate with rarity. So, it ends up being a common cancel on a common stamp, but that's OK. All right, I am ready to try again with another example from my collection. I know already that this is not an 'A' Class-type cancel, but I am not sure which one it is. It is a nice, clear strike though, so I hope this will be a good one for the thread.  Stamp: NZ, SG562, 4d Black & Sepia Cancel: Lake Ohia, 25-Oct-1935 I tried to do a little research about Lake Ohia online, but I got mostly holiday destination info, so perhaps it is a vacation spot? I was able to find that it is in the Far North District of the Northland Region, and about 700km away from Wellington. I am admittedly ignorant about NZ geography, so I am trying to learn a bit with these postmarks. |
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DK
Member 
Posts: 1,217
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 24, 2022 9:18:35 GMT
That is a very nice example of a 'J' class cancel Chris  Lake Ohia Whangarei Postal District 25th Jan 1911 to 30th Nov 1963 'J' Class cancellation rated a 4 by Wooders - not common/not uncommon :-) Not one I have seen before to be fair. A nice 'SON' on the 4d 1935 Pictorial. You are getting better at this Chris  And for your education - Lake Ohia is about a 5hr drive north of Auckland - see map below - so about 12hrs north of Wellington!  Dave PS Perhaps I will start a new thread on NZ postmarks, at some stage, which can begin with the different classes of circular cancels - 'A' thru to 'J' PPS Blenheim circled as gc Grant, lives there & Tauranga similarly as I live there :-) |
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skid
Member
Posts: 320
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 25, 2022 7:27:57 GMT
A thread on NZ postmarks would be great, specially with the information you always provide in the threads you start. We would all greatly appreciate it.
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skid
Member
Posts: 320
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 25, 2022 7:29:30 GMT
Another reason that SONs are rare for modern stamps, despite the larger stamps, is that the cancels have increased in size. This one is from Ngatea in the Hauraki plains at the bottom of the firth of Thames.  |
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skid
Member
Posts: 320
What I collect: NZ Chalons, 1800's NZ, Thames Valley NZ, and other interesting NZ stamps
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Post by skid on Apr 25, 2022 7:36:02 GMT
Here is a 1d Universal with a Wiamate postmark. Wiamate is on the east coast of the south island, south of Christchurch.  |
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Post by blackcap on Apr 25, 2022 18:20:44 GMT
Another reason that SONs are rare for modern stamps, despite the larger stamps, is that the cancels have increased in size. This one is from Ngatea in the Hauraki plains at the bottom of the firth of Thames. That is impressive Skid, not often you get a modern one. I will have to look into my collection to see if I can find anything comparable. One thing that did tempt me was to ask if Mowbrays would do a SON for me next time they send me some material but that would be cheating. |
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Post by blackcap on Apr 29, 2022 3:16:31 GMT
Here is an interesting one I found in a Sideface Collection I purchased recently. It is on a 1 shilling chestnut looks like a p.10. Not sure if it qualifies for SON (95%) but it must come close. What was of interest to me was the "Nightcaps" postmark. Where the heck is nightcaps or is it not a place and rather something else that I am unaware of? The stamp itself is ok, but unfortunately a bit of tone on the top right perf. Happy for others to educate me on this one.  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,217
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 29, 2022 3:47:13 GMT
That is a very nice SON Arend. I would keep it for sure :-)
'Nightcaps'
Invercargill Postal District
1st July 1882 - 5th Feb 1988
'A' class rated a 4 by Wooders.
Nice one.
Dave
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,217
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 29, 2022 4:12:42 GMT
and while I am here - here are a few rated 5 & 6 by Wooders :  Rated 6
Kumeroa Rated 5Clarence Bridge Longford Livingstone Ocean Bay ? Dave |
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,598
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on May 14, 2022 1:52:30 GMT
Looked in the back of my New Zealand collection and discovered I had another SON postmark. It appears to be a 1908 cancel from Waimate.  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,217
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on May 14, 2022 22:40:51 GMT
Nice one.
That is Waimate (not Waimait).
Quite a common postmark but nice to see on the 1891 Lighthouse 2d brown.
Dave
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,598
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on May 14, 2022 23:02:14 GMT
Nice one. That is Waimate (not Waimait). Quite a common postmark but nice to see on the 1891 Lighthouse 2d brown. Dave Edited the posting. My first search for town names showed the Waimait spelling. Just proves you cannot always trust the internet...  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,217
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jul 30, 2022 22:41:33 GMT
I have just finished sorting and cleaning a small batch of @100 or so stamps just received from the UK and pulled out these 3:  SON pmks from : Wellington, Greytown N & Carterton All from the same part of NZ generally, the lower North Island - Wellington area Dave |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,217
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jul 31, 2022 1:03:42 GMT
There was one more SON amongst the above lot which I didn't notice until now. A 'Wakatipu' postmarked 'Martinborough':   Dave |
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Post by paul1 on Jul 31, 2022 7:08:48 GMT
I'm sitting waiting for a Wakitipu to arrive in the UK from NZ - and then there's the alternative spelling 'Wakatipu', and in SG the values have almost transposed figures - one is worth far more used and the other equally so for mint. Can you please give a few words as to the reasoning for this and what is the correct spelling for the place - thanks:-)
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otira
**Member** 
Help me getting the 1898 Wakatipu cancelled in May 1898
Posts: 45
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Post by otira on Jul 31, 2022 20:15:00 GMT
I will try to explain what I know; the Wakitipu is the incorrect spelling. This was already known before the stamp was issued but to late to correct as the stamps were printed in the UK. Collectors kept these stamps as they thought this mistake would be valuable; few stamps were used and on the market with the correct date April, May 1898.
The Wakatipu is supposed to be issued on the 5th of May 1898. As I collect these 1898 Wakatipu's and Wakatipu's I am trying to find a dated May 5th 1898 Wakatipu. So far I have been unsuccesfull.
Please check my previous posts, also in the 1898 Pictorial selection.
Anyone who would like to correct me or add information to my post feel free.
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otira
**Member**
Help me getting the 1898 Wakatipu cancelled in May 1898
Posts: 45
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Post by otira on Jul 31, 2022 20:28:50 GMT
A nice addition 1898 Wakatipu Socked on the Nose KOPU cancelled 2 OC 00  |
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otira
**Member**
Help me getting the 1898 Wakatipu cancelled in May 1898
Posts: 45
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Post by otira on Jul 31, 2022 20:46:17 GMT
The 1898 Pictorial 5d. Otira. VFU Port Ahuriri 21 NO 03. A small port near Napier?  |
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Post by paul1 on Jul 31, 2022 21:01:59 GMT
thanks for taking the time to explain - much appreciated - wish you luck in finding a 05.05.1898 :-)
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,217
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jul 31, 2022 21:47:02 GMT
A nice addition 1898 Wakatipu Socked on the Nose KOPU cancelled 2 OC 00 Now 'that' is gorgeous otiraMark, skid, would to see that one in his 'Thames Valley & Coromandel' thread. KOPU is just a couple of miles (literally) down the road, south of Thames. The main road to the Eastern side of the Coromandel from Thames starts at Kopu. The Kopu - Hikuai Road. Very, very nice. Dave |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,217
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Jul 31, 2022 21:54:12 GMT
I'm sitting waiting for a Wakitipu to arrive in the UK from NZ - and then there's the alternative spelling 'Wakatipu', and in SG the values have almost transposed figures - one is worth far more used and the other equally so for mint. Can you please give a few words as to the reasoning for this and what is the correct spelling for the place - thanks:-) Hi Paul otira is correct. The spelling of 'Wakitipu' is incorrect but wasn't corrected before its release on April 5th 1898. 'Wakatipu' is the correct spelling and had a much longer life in use. Due to its 'fame' as an error it was widely collected as an 'error' and many more examples of Wakitipu exist mint than 'genuine' used. ie meaning in period use. Caveat: Be aware that people have applied fake or, more usually, much later postmarks to these mint copies to make them more valuable. They will more than likely have nice corner cancels, CTO in looks. If buying then get them with genuine 'in period' cancels. Anything 1898, 1899 should be ok. Dave |
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Post by paul1 on Aug 1, 2022 7:52:10 GMT
thanks for you input Dave - appreciated. The example I'm waiting for is described as mint/MLH, so postmark not an issue. There are some very collectible and attractive 'landscape' or 'tall' pictorials from a variety of sources from around that time, of which 'Wakatipu' is one - though apart from a very few, mostly high value examples, the U.K. seems not to have followed fashion for its own stamps. Very conservative it seems the U.K. postal authorities in their choice of image, and it's not until George VI that we start to see a few. We have to look to the Continent of Europe - and in particular France and her Colonies - for a profusion of such pictorial images during Ed. VII and Victoria, though doubtless the U.K. stamp printers were responsible for some great things - but for other countries and not the U.K.
Watch everyone come in now and tell me how wrong I am ;-);-) thanks again.
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otira
**Member**
Help me getting the 1898 Wakatipu cancelled in May 1898
Posts: 45
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Post by otira on Aug 17, 2022 18:37:00 GMT
Just added to the collection a nice 5d Otira cancelled Wataroa 8 SP 00. Is this the same town as Whataroa? Wikipedea mentioned a small town on the South Island. The population of Whataroa and its surrounding area was 288 in 2013. So how many peolpe lived in Whataroa/Wataroa in 1900?  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,217
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Aug 19, 2022 4:46:12 GMT
Just added to the collection a nice 5d Otira cancelled Wataroa 8 SP 00. Is this the same town as Whataroa? Wikipedea mentioned a small town on the South Island. The population of Whataroa and its surrounding area was 288 in 2013. So how many peolpe lived in Whataroa/Wataroa in 1900? Wataroa / Whataroa is the same place. Three phases with their cancellation devices there : 1/11/1884 - 31/12/1924'A' class rated a 6 by Wooders Greymouth Postal District 16/4/1934 - 1/9/1951'A' class rated a 5 by Wooders and they had a name change to Whataroa in 1951: 1/9/1951 - 5/2/1988'J' class rated a 3 by Wooders Due to the early colonials writing the Maori words as they heard them they were not 100% accurate to the way Maori actually say the words. Many 'W' starting words in Maori have had the 'H' added over the years. Places like Wangerei became Whangarei (FungAray) Wakatane became Whakatane (F**k-A-tar-nay) Wanganui became Whanganui in very recent times (Fung-A-Nu-ee) 'WH' in Maori is pronounced like the English 'F'. NB Maori had no written language until the British arrived. All of their stories and myths were passed on orally. Whataroa HistoryWhataroa is a small township in southern Westland on the West Coast of New Zealand's South Island. It is located on the western bank of the Whataroa River, with the village of Te Taho on the other side. State Highway 6 passes through Whataroa on its route from Ross to the Franz Josef Glacier. Harihari is 31 kilometres (19 mi) to the north-east, and Franz Josef is 32 km to the south-west.
The population of Whataroa and its surrounding area was 405 in the 2006 Census, an increase of 81 from 2001.
Whataroa is located in an agricultural area where dairying is the primary activity. The town contains establishments such as a school, two churches, and a Māori craft gallery. It is also a staging base for trips to a white heron sanctuary that is the only breeding location of white heron in New Zealand.
Whataroa hosts the South Westland A&P Show annually in February. Founded in 1951, events include equestrian competitions, diary cattle judging, dog trials, trade displays and various family entertainment.
The Woodham Shield is an annual rugby competition in which Whataroa and neighboring towns, Franz- Fox- Hast, Hari Hari and Ross, compete against each other for possession of the shield.
History
Whataroa was the site of cattle sales twice a year from 1875, serving farmers from around South Westland. The last mob of cattle was driven to Whataroa in 1961.
A dairy factory was established at Whataroa before World War I.
Education
Whataroa School is a coeducational full primary school (years 1-8), with a decile rating of 7 and a roll of 33 (as at March 2015). The school was established in 1879 and celebrated its 125th reunion in 2004.Dave |
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otira
**Member**
Help me getting the 1898 Wakatipu cancelled in May 1898
Posts: 45
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Post by otira on Aug 19, 2022 18:15:56 GMT
Thank you Dave. You always add so much intresting information. Very much appreciated.
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,217
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on May 6, 2023 3:10:26 GMT
Here are a selection of 'A' and 'H' class cancels - SONs - from a recent 1901 1st Local Penny Universals lot just received and sorted :  Dave |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,217
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on May 12, 2023 23:53:33 GMT
I was sorting thru' some Penny Universals last week and sorted out, and showed here, some lovely SON examples. As I was self inspired by this I thought that I would sort out my Chalons and show some SON postmarks on these.  Dave |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,217
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 12, 2024 23:17:48 GMT
As we haven't posted any NZ SONs for a while, and I had received in some new 1900 Boer War stamps, I thought it was time to show some more :   Dave |
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,598
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Apr 13, 2024 0:47:15 GMT
These are not the best of SON’s but I spotted them when picking through an old album esrlier this week. I am not sure if they are desirable New Zealand postmarks but here they are. This one is for Pahiatua  This one is for Roxburgh  |
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,217
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 13, 2024 3:44:44 GMT
Hi Hugh
Thanks for the above posts. The best of the two you show is obvioulsy the Roxburgh one.
It is an example of a 'C' class cancel.
This differs only with the 'J' class in that the 'C' class has the time shown, whereas a 'J' class has a time index letter alongside the date.
And it is almost complete. Not easy to do with these larger style postmarks on a single stamp.
Dave
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