Andy Pastuszak
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Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,533 
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 4, 2021 1:45:38 GMT
So many Scott number for the same stamp design. I get that stamps may be different between a sheet, coil and booklet stamp. But why do we have 3-4 different major catalog numbers of the same exact, just because it's printed by a different printer. Why can't they all be the same size and die cut. And then they'll reissue the same definitive later in the year, and they'll change something about it (die cut, size, microprint color), which generates multiple major new catalog number.
If we have forever stamps now, why the **** do we need a microprint with the date on it? Forever is forever. Print the date on the backing paper if you need to track it.
As much as this is a pain for collectors, we page designers hate it also. I'm sure catalog makers don't like it either.
Ok, I'm done my rant.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,460
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Post by khj on Dec 4, 2021 4:25:35 GMT
As with all innovations/varieties, it's fun the first time. Still interesting the 2nd time. Annoying the third time. Outright pulling out your hair after that.
It's time for USPS to move on and try another gimmick.
This is the reason why I don't collect all the new US issues. They stay with one gimmick way too long. At most now, I might get the "gimmick" the first time it appears, and then ignore all the keep-milking-collectors issues that follow. JMO
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,345
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 4, 2021 11:12:53 GMT
Actually I am in the opposite camp. They have not issued enough catalog numbers at times. If there is a difference (design details such as microprint, die cut measurement, presence of a straight edge, etc.) it should have a different catalog number. When there was only one printer and there was a sheet and booklet version (obvious by straight edge). Scott would only list the booklet pane not a single.
With Scott, they find a new plate scratch on a Washington Franklin issue and then create a new major number but more obvious differences in modern are treated differently.
I do not collect modern US (or any other country) after 2017 or so as I do not like most of the subjects and dealing with self-adhesives. The varieties did not bother me.
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,150
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Post by rex on Dec 4, 2021 11:47:11 GMT
The problem of the many varieties is a problem that today is proposed by many postal administrations in various countries.
Just ignore and the problem is solved.
When I accidentally come across modern self-adhesive stamps, I leave them on paper fragment. ..and amen.
Philately relaxes me, it helps me to travel mentally, geographically, culturally, historically ..etc..etc...
It shouldn't be stressful. .. . It should be some quality time that we dedicate to ourselfves.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,533
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 4, 2021 18:17:52 GMT
Actually I am in the opposite camp. They have not issued enough catalog numbers at times. If there is a difference (design details such as microprint, die cut measurement, presence of a straight edge, etc.) it should have a different catalog number. When there was only one printer and there was a sheet and booklet version (obvious by straight edge). Scott would only list the booklet pane not a single. With Scott, they find a new plate scratch on a Washington Franklin issue and then create a new major number but more obvious differences in modern are treated differently. I do not collect modern US (or any other country) after 2017 or so as I do not like most of the subjects and dealing with self-adhesives. The varieties did not bother me. My complaint is with the USPS, and not with Scott. I see no practical reason to print so many varieties of definitive stamps with the same design. |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,150
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Post by rex on Dec 4, 2021 18:56:23 GMT
They are trying to cash out. The Italian postal administration does the same.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,345
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 5, 2021 11:43:05 GMT
I do not think the USPS creates these definitive varieties for collectors. I could see the USPS doing it to keep their loyal printers competitive by spreading the work. Scott will never make everyone happy with their cataloging policy.
For modern material collectors, abandon the catalog and use your own custom method. On my pages, I went deeper than Scott since they mention but do not assign a unique suffix number for stamps with different gum (low gloss, etc.). It depends on if you are a topical/design collector versus a more details collector. The hobby needs both.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,533
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 5, 2021 20:06:49 GMT
I do not think the USPS creates these definitive varieties for collectors. I could see the USPS doing it to keep their loyal printers competitive by spreading the work. Scott will never make everyone happy with their cataloging policy. For modern material collectors, abandon the catalog and use your own custom method. On my pages, I went deeper than Scott since they mention but do not assign a unique suffix number for stamps with different gum (low gloss, etc.). It depends on if you are a topical/design collector versus a more details collector. The hobby needs both. They could still use their loyal printers. Just have all 4 of them print the exact same stamp. |
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jpotx113
Member
Posts: 460
What I collect: USA, Germany, Croatia, Slovenia, Machins, misc. WW
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Post by jpotx113 on Dec 6, 2021 15:07:39 GMT
It can be annoying but I try to see it as a challenge. I recently asked my friend at the local tax office to save envelopes for me (she knows I collect stamps and October is when property tax payments start coming in). She didn't understand why I wanted all the definitives. "They look the same", she said. Ha!
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dorincard
Member
Posts: 1,450
What I collect: My focus is on Wild Mammals on maximum cards. Occasionally, I get or create maximum cards with other animals, or any other topic.
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Post by dorincard on Dec 7, 2021 23:35:36 GMT
"According to my calculations, the problem doesn't exist", for me.
I casually collect a few stamps of the world, that I find interesting.
Any country, any year, any topic - they are not prohibited a priori, for me.
Scot(t)-free...
Perfectionism-free.
Exhaustiveness-free.
Philately is a relaxing, educational hobby.
Could be more creative than passive accumulation.
That's why I promote maximaphily (non-traditional, or even traditional).
Also, cacheted covers created by collectors.
Prefer maxicards and cacheted covers really mailed, with transit postmarks, etc.
Casualties are assumed.
Postal use, not just philatelic.
Even cinderellas can be creative fun.
I don't "hate" any stamp category. I may dislike some.
"Guarda e passa".
[Look, and move on].
I disregard only if I regard first.
Equal opportunity philatelist.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,533
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 8, 2021 3:41:26 GMT
It can be annoying but I try to see it as a challenge. I recently asked my friend at the local tax office to save envelopes for me (she knows I collect stamps and October is when property tax payments start coming in). She didn't understand why I wanted all the definitives. "They look the same", she said. Ha! I collect MNH, so I just wait for an eBay auction to have a set of them all. |
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,345
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 8, 2021 13:13:01 GMT
I picked up some year sets from Fort Pitt Philatelics off ebay. The price ended up as a premium over face. In the day of self-adhesives, creating year sets can be a pain.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,533
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 8, 2021 13:41:36 GMT
I picked up some year sets from Fort Pitt Philatelics off ebay. The price ended up as a premium over face. In the day of self-adhesives, creating year sets can be a pain. Honestly, I wonder how much longer stamps will be around. |
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,345
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 9, 2021 11:41:07 GMT
I think they will be around even if no real postal use as long as people buy them.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,345
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 10, 2021 10:56:31 GMT
I will add the US Mint seems to be pumping out useless commemorative issues and proof sets.
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Post by mudgie on Dec 10, 2021 18:20:56 GMT
Actually I am in the opposite camp. They have not issued enough catalog numbers at times. If there is a difference (design details such as microprint, die cut measurement, presence of a straight edge, etc.) it should have a different catalog number. When there was only one printer and there was a sheet and booklet version (obvious by straight edge). Scott would only list the booklet pane not a single. With Scott, they find a new plate scratch on a Washington Franklin issue and then create a new major number but more obvious differences in modern are treated differently. I do not collect modern US (or any other country) after 2017 or so as I do not like most of the subjects and dealing with self-adhesives. The varieties did not bother me. My complaint is with the USPS, and not with Scott. I see no practical reason to print so many varieties of definitive stamps with the same design. "so many varieties of definitive stamps with the same design" - surely nothing compared to the Machins we've had in Britain for 54 years ! |
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,345
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 10, 2021 21:44:46 GMT
Yes but my comment reflected Scott's preference to older material specialization rather modern. The US has nothing like Machins in the modern era.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,533
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 11, 2021 4:28:38 GMT
My complaint is with the USPS, and not with Scott. I see no practical reason to print so many varieties of definitive stamps with the same design. "so many varieties of definitive stamps with the same design" - surely nothing compared to the Machins we've had in Britain for 54 years ! Figuring out Machin varieties has got to be the most boring job at Stanley Gibbons. |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,150
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Post by rex on Dec 11, 2021 9:34:32 GMT
Surely to work at Stanley Gibbons everyone need to have a minimum of philatelic vocation.
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Post by mudgie on Dec 11, 2021 9:40:22 GMT
"so many varieties of definitive stamps with the same design" - surely nothing compared to the Machins we've had in Britain for 54 years ! Figuring out Machin varieties has got to be the most boring job at Stanley Gibbons. John Deering does it for them. |
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,533
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 12, 2021 3:46:07 GMT
Surely to work at Stanley Gibbons everyone need to have a minimum of philatelic vocation. True.
But I take little joy in spending time trying to figure out varieties of stamps with similar designs. Some people live for the kind of stuff. But not me.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,345
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 12, 2021 11:30:22 GMT
SG does not cover Machins as well as the Deegam team and other specialist groups.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,533
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 12, 2021 14:34:52 GMT
SG does not cover Machins as well as the Deegam team and other specialist groups. You'd think they would just outsource it to Deegam, rather than repeat someone else's work. |
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,345
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 13, 2021 11:59:36 GMT
Ha. If they referenced Deegam, no one would collect them. I collect Machin and use Deegam for the information but would not use it as a template to collect. My every day reference is SG.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,533
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 14, 2021 1:56:42 GMT
I feel like the catalog makers do too much work. I think they should license to each other. Scott's Germany and Russia sections should MICHEL. Their British Commonwealth section should be SG. and SG and MICHEL should use Scott for their US and Canada sections.
I'm still hoping we get a crowdsourced catalog one day with a numbering system stamp collectors accept.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,345
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 14, 2021 10:59:59 GMT
If Colnect added a Colnect catalog number then one would be closer goal but everyone will not agree. Stampworld has a numbering system and fairly simplified.
I prefer providing MORE information and let people decide.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,533
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 14, 2021 14:20:58 GMT
There is a universal numbering system, but it's kinda complicated. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WADP_Numbering_SystemAnd we also have the issue of varieties. I don't think any two catalog makers agree on varieties of the same stamp. I know at one point MICHEL made a US Specialized catalog that included varieties not included in the Scott US Specialized. |
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,345
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Dec 15, 2021 10:51:39 GMT
Yes, that is why there are so many different catalogs just for Machins: SG Concise, SD Specialized, Deegam, Connoisseur, etc.
Scott specialized ignores many modern varieties such as die cut types (peaks, valley), phosphor nuances, etc.
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brightonpete
Departed
Rest in Peace
On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Dec 15, 2021 11:24:33 GMT
Well! That Scott Specialized doesn’t sound very specialized, IF you were to ask me! 
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,533
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Dec 17, 2021 3:35:43 GMT
Honestly, I think Scott doesn't have the resources or time to deal with modern varieties. If the Scott numbering system was liberated from Scott, I would expect the Scott Catalog to collapse pretty quickly.
I can see ANYONE creating a better online offering than what Scott/Amos offers.I think just about anyone can come up with a better site, but unless they get to use the numbering system, they're dead in the water.
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