kasvik
Member
Posts: 543
What I collect: Cancels mostly, especially Sweden Gävle and Lidingö, Switzerland Geneva, Germany Pforzheim
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Post by kasvik on Apr 22, 2022 14:20:44 GMT
It's an important discussion, Why no Great Britain main section? Philately likes 'Great Britain' because we're all sentimentalists. Sure, we can indulge Brexit (nice snipe jdtrue66 ) and soccer nationalism, but it seems right to have a collective all-purpose forum featuring the formal name of the place and covering all its pieces.
I prefer UK, not just to be formal, but as the best way to include Northern Ireland, Channel Islands, Gibraltar, Falklands, Caribbeans and such. Admittedly, even United Kingdom is an abridgment of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Sooner or later somebody is going to insist on Venezuela, Bolivarian Republic of, and Kiribati, Independent and Sovereign Republic of. Steel yourselves fellow boomers; has to happen.
Here's my catalyst: an ad from Stanley Gibbons that stopped me cold, Great Britain £5 Orange Collection, including the example below. Completely new to this innocent. What was that pricy sticker for, in 1877? Converting into something I understand, guessing the exchange rate, that was USD 25 each. With inflation of roughly thirty times, about USD 750 today. What were people mailing? Horses?
Anybody have one?
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on Apr 23, 2022 9:27:46 GMT
I haven't got one (yet)!! certainly wish I had though.
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DK
Member
Posts: 1,220
What I collect: Classic NZ, Closed NZ Post Offices, New Zealand Postal History, Classic Br. Empire, Pacific Islands, France
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Post by DK on Apr 23, 2022 9:38:27 GMT
I don't have one! Either the Telegraphs one or the Postage one. I would love to have one though They are nice aren't they? Dave
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,654
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Apr 23, 2022 9:46:00 GMT
Thanks for your post, Aaron ( kasvik ). I don't have one of these, either. I have always wanted to have one of these GB QV £5 orange stamps for my collection, but an interesting thought just struck me. I have always considered these unaffordable, but it seems that the example posted is labelled for TELEGRAPHS rather than POSTAGE. I have only ever been looking at the ones intended for postal use, and I suspect that the TELEGRAPHS issues could be more affordable. Below is the listing from a recent Scott Catalogue for the postal version.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2022 10:07:31 GMT
I get your drift Kasvik, however, the item you have depicted is not a postage stamp ! To get a more precise GB inflation rate, I suggest you get a copy of Kate Rose Morley's calculator inflation.iamkate.com/ I use it on a regular basis when assessing how much a stamps face value would be purchased for at today's prices based on inflation.... Even using commonwealth stamps. NB. This attachment was taken when the calculator only assessed up to 2020. As for the £5 orange its face value today is now equivalent to £650, which can be easily converted into a different currency IE. Today's £650 = US$ 832Paperchase.
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kasvik
Member
Posts: 543
What I collect: Cancels mostly, especially Sweden Gävle and Lidingö, Switzerland Geneva, Germany Pforzheim
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Post by kasvik on Apr 23, 2022 12:42:53 GMT
Admonished, here is an equally unaffordable ‘postage’ example, from the same sale by Gibbons. In quotes because I cannot figure what on Earth someone was ‘mailing’ in Crew (Crew?) way back when. What could possibly cost that much? Based on cost alone, confirmed by the tiny print run, it was was a rare one to use, but it must have been important enough. The local post offices must have been scared to death of it.
Nice calculator @@paperchase Reminds how hideous the depression was in the 1870/80s, when this first came out. Everyone must have been suffering.
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,404
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Apr 23, 2022 12:56:38 GMT
Holy smokes, a sock on the nose gem of a stamp! Wowzers! Thanks for posting the pic. And what a good question about the usage. Is it possible that this could have been used as a revenue stamp to show payment? Too bad it isn’t on a cover or document, eh?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2022 14:56:45 GMT
The £5 orange was in most cases never used for postage but mainly for revenue purposes and legal duties such as tobacco etc., This £5 stamp was not just a high value but a mega value when comparing it to people's income at that time, here is an article based on the history of Victorian England, stating that the average weekly wage at that time was in the region of 15 shillings and a stamp with a denomination of that magnitude would have been way outside their affordability. vichist.blogspot.com/2014/05/income-vs-expenditure-in-working-class.html#:~:text=Overall%2C%20in%20the%20middle%20years,was%20%C2%A342%2F14%2F%2D. It makes interesting reading......... Paperchase
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Post by daniel on Apr 23, 2022 17:40:47 GMT
Aaron, kasvik , there's no need to feel admonished. The £5 orange started life as a telegraphs stamp in 1877. In 1881 telegraphs stamps were abolished and postage stamps were used instead. There being no such thing as a £5 postage stamp, the printing plate of the £5 Telegraphs stamp was adapted by simply removing the word ‘Telegraphs’ and inserting the word ‘Postage’. So, one of its uses continued to be for long telegrams. Of course, only businesses and the rich could afford them. Daniel
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kasvik
Member
Posts: 543
What I collect: Cancels mostly, especially Sweden Gävle and Lidingö, Switzerland Geneva, Germany Pforzheim
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Post by kasvik on Apr 23, 2022 20:48:51 GMT
Enigma resolved. As usual, you can drown in this stuff.
‘In the 1880s, rates for some overseas telegrams were very high. Telegrams to Bermuda, for example, cost £1, 4 shillings and 4 pence per word (£1.4s.4d). A message of just four words cost more than £5, hence the need for a £5 telegraph stamp to receipt payments of high charges.’ Also used to pay excise taxes, especially for alcohol. David Alderfer. ‘Acquiring the holy grail: Great Britain’s £5 orange Queen Victoria’, Lynn’s, 25 June 2015, more courtesy of Stampboards, 'Wide ranging discussion thread on GB 1882 £5 Orange QV stamp', and a tidy summary by the true owner of the issue, John Horsey, The £5 Orange, RPSL, 2015. Horsey notes 'Very few £5 Oranges were used for postage. Most were used for accounting for excise duty, reconciling payments for bulk mail, on telegrams and other internal accounting.'
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,458
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Post by khj on Apr 24, 2022 5:39:22 GMT
Holy smokes, a sock on the nose gem of a stamp! Wowzers! Thanks for posting the pic. And what a good question about the usage. Is it possible that this could have been used as a revenue stamp to show payment? Too bad it isn’t on a cover or document, eh? I don't collect cancels and defer to others, but wonder if it is a parcel cancel given the style.
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Post by daniel on May 5, 2022 0:58:46 GMT
I forgot I had this, a totally fake £5 Orange Telegraphs stamp (with a ten shillings stamp) on a corner of a Telegram form 😁
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