drblade
Member 
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on May 4, 2022 8:10:46 GMT
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seegod1
Member
Mostly lurking these days, but enjoying everyone's input!
Posts: 164 
What I collect: Canada, Cats, Soccer, Religion, Royalty, Titanic, Stamps on Stamps, Number Ones
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Post by seegod1 on May 4, 2022 10:12:20 GMT
I got that as well. I dunno, man - should the entire point of the idea be that digital should be somewhat cheaper than paper since a large part of the expense (paper and printing costs) have now disappeared (or will eventually)? Or does it just mean that the "paper-based" expense has been shifted to elsewhere (i.e. terabytes of cloud data for hosting these digital offerings and all that.) Any thoughts? Anyone in the industry care to comment? |
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,346 
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
Member is Online
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Post by angore on May 4, 2022 10:15:18 GMT
There was a recent discussion on the topic.
To me, it was an equal step backward as they want to move to an annual fee model to continue to use the online version. Previously one could buy an online year or conuntry edition and continue to use it forever like buying a book. Now when you rent you get access for a year and then need to renew to get continued access. The continued access gives you changes like listing and prices. The prior purchases are grandfathered.
The net is you are paying $90+ a year per catalog. This is not cheap. This may drive up the value of used stamp catalogs. If one purchases new catalogs each year, then it could make sense but not for most anyone else.
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brightonpete
Departed
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on May 4, 2022 11:02:54 GMT
I'm leery of Scott's digital products. I've experienced them in the past and they were useless to a collector such as me.
I just checked them out and $99US to $549.99US is ridiculous! There's absolutely no way I'd pay anywhere near that for what they offer! Pay for it one year then lose all access? They are looking at this like their book division! I'll stick with the country pages I buy, much more affordable - scan them then they are always available!
Who are those people with glowing comments? Not me!
Peter
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brightonpete
Departed
Rest in Peace
On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on May 4, 2022 11:05:14 GMT
I just took a second look.
They only update once a year, so there's never an update! Or do they plan to update as stamps are released? Not the least bit worth it to me!
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drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
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Post by drblade on May 4, 2022 11:27:59 GMT
I got that as well. I dunno, man - should the entire point of the idea be that digital should be somewhat cheaper than paper since a large part of the expense (paper and printing costs) have now disappeared (or will eventually)? Or does it just mean that the "paper-based" expense has been shifted to elsewhere (i.e. terabytes of cloud data for hosting these digital offerings and all that.) Any thoughts? Anyone in the industry care to comment? I think you are correct, also digital is not much use to people without internet access/computer. I expect there are some. |
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,603
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on May 4, 2022 11:56:30 GMT
It is interesting that being a person addicted to my electronic devises I have no interest in digital catalogues. When working on stamps I find it easier flipping pages in my tattered and torn paper catalogues. I guess it stands to reason as I still prefer an actual book in my hand over a digital reader. On the other hand I greatly prefer getting my news on line. I cannot recall when I last looked at an actual newspaper. To each their own.
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jdtrue66
Member
Posts: 287
What I collect: US&US FDC, Keys & Locks, NUDES, Rubber Ducks, USS NJ covers
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Post by jdtrue66 on May 4, 2022 13:04:33 GMT
I got that as well. I dunno, man - should the entire point of the idea be that digital should be somewhat cheaper than paper since a large part of the expense (paper and printing costs) have now disappeared (or will eventually)? Or does it just mean that the "paper-based" expense has been shifted to elsewhere (i.e. terabytes of cloud data for hosting these digital offerings and all that.) Any thoughts? Anyone in the industry care to comment? Since I resemble "Anyone in the industry care to comment?" the storage costs are pennies and every publisher pays that now. All printers want formatted digital files so your storing them anyway. The only added costs could be bandwidth and user access numbers. But you're still talking cheap compared to printing, storage and shipping. Subscription is the way lots of software is going. Office 365, Adobe Creative cloud and so on. I am not sure this is the right move but it seems to be the path. |
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djcmh
Member
Posts: 772
What I collect: Worldwide
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Post by djcmh on May 4, 2022 13:13:22 GMT
When the equivalent products from Yvert and Michel are both less than US$200/year, the fact that Scott wants US$550 for a one year subscription to its full basic catalog (and add an additional $100 for US Specialized and another $125 for the classic specialized) is beyond ridiculous and a complete marketing fail on Scott's part in my opinion.
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jdtrue66
Member
Posts: 287
What I collect: US&US FDC, Keys & Locks, NUDES, Rubber Ducks, USS NJ covers
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Post by jdtrue66 on May 4, 2022 14:04:01 GMT
When the equivalent products from Yvert and Michel are both less than US$200/year, the fact that Scott wants US$550 for a one year subscription to its full basic catalog (and add an additional $100 for US Specialized and another $125 for the classic specialized) is beyond ridiculous and a complete marketing fail on Scott's part in my opinion. That might be a marketing and pure numbers game. The old adage "charge what the market will bare" it also could be a cost recover expense they are trying to recover over a short time. Or it could just be a pure "you want to use Scott numbers" pony up the cash. At almost and in some cases more then 3 times the cost they can sell less and make more to what could be in some areas a larger potential market. I bet a lot of people will now be wishing for a common denominator number now! It could finally happen. |
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jpotx113
Member
Posts: 460
What I collect: USA, Germany, Croatia, Slovenia, Machins, misc. WW
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Post by jpotx113 on May 4, 2022 21:55:29 GMT
If Scott catalogs become 100% digital, and at this price, my 2016 complete set will continue to be used in 2026...and 2036. That's a crazy price to pay for digital content. Count me out.
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,710
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on May 4, 2022 22:03:34 GMT
If Scott catalogs become 100% digital, and at this price, my 2016 complete set will continue to be used in 2026...and 2036. That's a crazy price to pay for digital content. Count me out. I agree and will they change  ? My 2009 volumes serve me well but I do have a digital (paid once and owned) 2021 Specialized (WW) which suits me well for some years to come - now it is a different situation/price and I am not going there + our $C is not too hot  René |
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gatodiablo
Member
Posts: 426
What I collect: Places I've been, and places I want to go.
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Post by gatodiablo on May 4, 2022 23:20:08 GMT
Late to the party as usual (I hope you saved me some wine!). Speaking as someone who has been involved with micro-publishing, both in print and digital, the costs of delivering different media is trivial (and most expensive in the niche I am in).
It might be more useful to consider that the means of delivery is not the cost driver, rather it's the intellectual property (e.g. information contained therein) that is the relevant factor. Scott/Amos, YT, SG, Unitrade, etc., have spent a lot of dollars and a lot of person-hours developing their respective databases. This is, at the root of it, what they are charging for. Whether the market will bear it remains to be seen, but I expect they each have their analysts looking into it.
Perhaps TSF members aren't their target audience?
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on May 5, 2022 1:09:19 GMT
I like the digital version because I can enlarge it and see it clearly.
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madbaker
Member
Posts: 693
What I collect: (Mark) General worldwide collector (to 1975 or so) with a soft spot for Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia.
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Post by madbaker on May 5, 2022 1:20:40 GMT
Perhaps TSF members aren't their target audience?
I bristled at this when I first read it, but perhaps you're on to something.
If it's not for us, then who is this for? Dealers?
Dealers seem to be the only folks I know who buy a fresh set of catalogues every year (well, and libraries)
I wonder how much money Amos makes from dealers vs. collectors via their catalogues.
It's monopolist thinking - they want to protect their (North American) monopoly for as long as they can. And if they have a group shelling out $550 per year for a new set of catalogues, making something more convenient to get a few extra bucks from me (who only needs 5 countries and can live with 8 year old prices) isn't worth rocking the boat for the $550 per year crowd.
Amos has been very consistent at making their digital products pretty much unusable. I can only think that they don't actually want to make the shift to become the best / most useful digital offering. They'd rather protect what they have.
Which begs the question, why do this at all? It seems like quite an investment to keep making bad digital projects. Who is clamouring for a digital product that still holds onto the 6 volume structure that only exists due to physical printing limitations?
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Is it possible that they're trying to model some other business-to-business type catalogues? My dad had a service station and had a shelf of paper price books, where he determined how much labour to charge for each type of car repair. They were pricey books, and I could see the value holding for the repair shop as it moved from paper to digital.
No individual car owner needed all that information, but each repair shop sure did.
Could that be the mental model that Amos is holding on to? Who's the equivalent of the repair shop in the stamp context? Maybe it's the dealers?
If that's the case, then Amos stays in business even after the vast majority of collectors switch to Colnect, etc. It's when the dealers switch to something else that they finally close up shop.
This is merely a thought experiment of course, and likely totally bogus. But I've never seen a company so aggressively ignore how collectors actually use their products like Scott/Amos do.
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Cephus
Member
Posts: 161
What I collect: U.S. 1847-1993, Australia, China, New Zealand
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Post by Cephus on May 5, 2022 2:21:29 GMT
If Scott catalogs become 100% digital, and at this price, my 2016 complete set will continue to be used in 2026...and 2036. That's a crazy price to pay for digital content. Count me out. I agree and will they change  ? My 2009 volumes serve me well but I do have a digital (paid once and owned) 2021 Specialized (WW) which suits me well for some years to come - now it is a different situation/price and I am not going there + our $C is not too hot  René I'm doing just fine with my 2017s and I don't see much reason to upgrade, regardless of the price. |
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Post by dgdecker on May 5, 2022 2:43:55 GMT
Late to the party as usual (I hope you saved me some wine!). Speaking as someone who has been involved with micro-publishing, both in print and digital, the costs of delivering different media is trivial (and most expensive in the niche I am in). It might be more useful to consider that the means of delivery is not the cost driver, rather it's the intellectual property (e.g. information contained therein) that is the relevant factor. Scott/Amos, YT, SG, Unitrade, etc., have spent a lot of dollars and a lot of person-hours developing their respective databases. This is, at the root of it, what they are charging for. Whether the market will bear it remains to be seen, but I expect they each have their analysts looking into it. Perhaps TSF members aren't their target audience? You are not too late. I just arrived. I have a glass of an interesting Canadian Cabernet Sauvignon for you. i like a paper catalogue as it will be useful for many years. If a digital version gave me the same I would be happy. it is intellectual property users are paying for. i do like the feel and fun of flipping through a catalogues as well as scrolling through screen. my main need for a catalogue is for identification and inventory. I am less concerned about pricing. at the pricing Amos is offering at this time I will not purchase a digital version. Too expensive for my needs. I am curious to know who is paying and how many. Dealers or just collectors. David |
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seegod1
Member
Mostly lurking these days, but enjoying everyone's input!
Posts: 164
What I collect: Canada, Cats, Soccer, Religion, Royalty, Titanic, Stamps on Stamps, Number Ones
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Post by seegod1 on May 5, 2022 9:52:33 GMT
Interesting discussion. although the point is moot for me anyway since I use EZStamp. By updating the worldwide database (every few years - I only update Canada yearly), I essentially have an up-to-date Scott album to look for stuff since that's what Marios uses to update his database anyway...
On a side note, one interesting thing around here (I'm in Kingston, ON Canada), is that I was at the library the other day and asked the librarian where they had moved the Scott Catalogues to. She told me they are now kept in their downtown branch, principally, and no longer catalogued as Reference, but instead as a regular book that can be signed out. Not sure what I think about that...
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,346
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
Member is Online
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Post by angore on May 5, 2022 10:06:25 GMT
I use StampManage but rely a lot on Colnect to identify stamps quickly at times. I will continue to use paper Scott but never a new issue.
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brightonpete
Departed
Rest in Peace
On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on May 5, 2022 11:38:43 GMT
On a side note, one interesting thing around here (I'm in Kingston, ON Canada), is that I was at the library the other day and asked the librarian where they had moved the Scott Catalogues to. She told me they are now kept in their downtown branch, principally, and no longer catalogued as Reference, but instead as a regular book that can be signed out. Not sure what I think about that...
It would be nice to have an Apple Macintosh app to use, but I manage with what I have.
Peter |
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,710
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on May 5, 2022 13:02:54 GMT
Interesting discussion. although the point is moot for me anyway since I use EZStamp. By updating the worldwide database (every few years - I only update Canada yearly), I essentially have an up-to-date Scott album to look for stuff since that's what Marios uses to update his database anyway... On a side note, one interesting thing around here (I'm in Kingston, ON Canada), is that I was at the library the other day and asked the librarian where they had moved the Scott Catalogues to. She told me they are now kept in their downtown branch, principally, and no longer catalogued as Reference, but instead as a regular book that can be signed out. Not sure what I think about that... With lots of respect with your comment, I need to add that prices realized at some auctions are also used by Marios (EzStamp) and he might have the copyrights to use Scott (which year ?) but the prices (some) which appear in his database include VG-F and XF etc, values (CVs) not present in Scott, though F appears in Canada's Unitrade....there are other inconsistencies but it gives you an idea and possibility to modify any value for the Countries (classics) you are interested in - I do not want to start a thread on this - this is it - PM me if you want to discuss further. A stamp program is not a catalogue anyway and there are other threads on this subject. René keep posting !! |
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jdtrue66
Member
Posts: 287
What I collect: US&US FDC, Keys & Locks, NUDES, Rubber Ducks, USS NJ covers
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Post by jdtrue66 on May 5, 2022 13:12:09 GMT
All the people saying they are using an old catalog I think if proof we are not the target. We also seem to not even be the target before the new digital subscription. If we did not buy the book version they are not going to miss us not buying the new version.
Yes dealers would be a target if they already buy a new set each year. It is also at least in the US a tax write off for them.
For me it is not about the price but the subscription. $500 for something I own Vs $500 I only have for 1 year if I don't keep up the subscription. The software EZ or Liberty and others are kind of subscription but if you don't update that is all you don't have the update you keep the old as you own it.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,346
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
Member is Online
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Post by angore on May 5, 2022 17:06:44 GMT
There are several groups of users:
1. purchase new every year
2. purchase new less often
3. purchased used - like me
4. go to library to access
5. buy on pirate CD version
If we assume the total population of Scott users is declining due to fewer collectors, then sales are down. I do not think this is really going to address keeping up revenue. In this decision, they stopped selling country editions so once again one is forced to get a alphabetic volume (like US, A-B). They will lose some new customers for the country editions. It almost appears they do not want the online versions to siphon off printed customers except those than insist on online versions. This would sustain printed volumes. If sales dropped on printed, it may drive up print costs (low press runs). (all speculation).
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seegod1
Member
Mostly lurking these days, but enjoying everyone's input!
Posts: 164
What I collect: Canada, Cats, Soccer, Religion, Royalty, Titanic, Stamps on Stamps, Number Ones
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Post by seegod1 on May 6, 2022 10:28:27 GMT
Oh fer sure René... I'm not too worried, I just want to have some sort of idea about whether or not the stamp I just got is worth 10c or $300,000... Like I say I collect stamps for the joy and history (and Trivial Pursuit Domination, LOL!) of collecting stamps.
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Post by dgdecker on May 6, 2022 23:14:03 GMT
Interesting discussion. although the point is moot for me anyway since I use EZStamp. By updating the worldwide database (every few years - I only update Canada yearly), I essentially have an up-to-date Scott album to look for stuff since that's what Marios uses to update his database anyway... On a side note, one interesting thing around here (I'm in Kingston, ON Canada), is that I was at the library the other day and asked the librarian where they had moved the Scott Catalogues to. She told me they are now kept in their downtown branch, principally, and no longer catalogued as Reference, but instead as a regular book that can be signed out. Not sure what I think about that... it is much the same in Ottawa. Those that are in the Main Branch can be checked out. I have done so many times as I can have for three weeks at a time. That is generally what I do when I feel like flipping through catalogues. They have always been on the shelf when I needed. If not I put a hold and pick it when next back. Suit my needs. David |
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nickmang
Member
Posts: 51
What I collect: ww used definitives and commemoratives
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Post by nickmang on Dec 23, 2023 3:45:24 GMT
I do not use digital copies
But get the latest catalogs from the local library
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