ericdrive
**Member** 
Posts: 23 
What I collect: Argentina, France and Portugal (soon US and UK)
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Post by ericdrive on Aug 3, 2022 17:56:23 GMT
Hi guys, I'm new to this world, so I apologize in advance if this is a waste of time to anyone. I have a French stamp. Yt:FR 730. But it has something different on its right border:  It looks like some of the green ink used for the stamp. Here's a closer look:  And an even closer one, just for fun:  And here is the back of the stamp:  Against the light:  By now, some of you experts might be chuckling and saying: "that's just a a blot of ink" . But, just in case, I'm sharing this. I looked at Yvert & Teller's Catalogue, and the only variation that could be close to a description of this is the Yt:FR 730e, which says "grosse tache de couleur" (big splash of color?)  But I'm not sure that that's a good description for this "stain" (for lack of a better word). So, the question holds: Is this Yt:FR 730e, an Error, or Nothing at all? Thank you all very much in advance. Best to all, Eric |
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stainlessb
Member 
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,642
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Aug 3, 2022 19:23:46 GMT
In this case some excess ink/ blob during printing
Interesting but not necessarily an error
At least it does not appear recognized so likely a " one of"
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Aug 3, 2022 20:37:56 GMT
I agree with Stan stainlessb.This is just a small blob of ink and I wouldn,t class this as an error. |
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Post by paul1 on Aug 3, 2022 20:45:52 GMT
hi - in English I'd suggest this is best described as a 'flaw', and something as the guys have already said is likely caused by excess ink in the wrong place. Had this flaw been constant across a number of stamps on the sheet then it would be more correct to be classed as a variety. Unfortunately, your catalogue reference 'e' doesn't describe the location of 'a spot of colour' - though usually errors, flaws and varieties are implied to be on the actual image rather than off the image. Nice stamps by the way - thanks for showing and welcome to TSF. I assume the word 'grosse' means large/big ?
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator 
Posts: 5,654
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 3, 2022 21:01:48 GMT
Thanks for your post, Eric ( ericdrive). I think it's an interesting question. In principle, I tend to agree with the others who have offered their opinions that your example just shows a blot of excess ink, and it is not an error. On the other hand, I know enough French to understand that "grosse tache de couleur" is indeed a large splash or stain of color, and the catalogue lists it as a distinct variety. So, I did a web search for "Marianne de Gandon grosse tache de couleur", and I found the image below (sorry for the small size), which would seem to suggest to me that you may be on the right track with this particular variety. Disclaimer: I have no expertise in this specific area. Hope this helps!  |
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ericdrive
**Member**
Posts: 23
What I collect: Argentina, France and Portugal (soon US and UK)
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Post by ericdrive on Aug 3, 2022 21:08:22 GMT
Thank you very much stainlessb , anglobob , and paul1 So, by this being a "one of a kind" flaw, would you say it makes it more desirable for collectors? And how do I present this in my collection? If I had 2 MNH copies of this stamp, the one shown above and one without the ink blob, should I present both on my collection, or just one (which?)? I know it ultimately comes to subjective preference, but what would an "expert" collector do? Thank you again, everyone, for your input and time.  Eric |
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anglobob
Member
Posts: 2,425
What I collect: France and French Colonies,French cinderellas British Commonwealth QE2
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Post by anglobob on Aug 3, 2022 21:43:40 GMT
ericdriveI would in no way class myself as an expert collector...more like an expert hoarder. I would show both examples in my collection,with maybe a note explaining the difference. Anglobob
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ericdrive
**Member**
Posts: 23
What I collect: Argentina, France and Portugal (soon US and UK)
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Post by ericdrive on Aug 3, 2022 21:58:18 GMT
Thanks for your post, Eric ( ericdrive ). I think it's an interesting question. In principle, I tend to agree with the others who have offered their opinions that your example just shows a blot of excess ink, and it is not an error. On the other hand, I know enough French to understand that "grosse tache de couleur" is indeed a large splash or stain of color, and the catalogue lists it as a distinct variety. So, I did a web search for "Marianne de Gandon grosse tache de couleur", and I found the image below (sorry for the small size), which would seem to suggest to me that you may be on the right track with this particular variety. Disclaimer: I have no expertise in this specific area. Hope this helps! Thank you so much @beryllium Guy! Could you add a link to the source of this image? I googled using your same search query and many others, and couldn't find it. I did find someone selling a couple of these as " Belles Variétés" and " Variété à la boutonnière". Here are the images:   But, I don't know. Maybe it's just someone trying to make an extra buck saying they're "varieties". I still wonder if these are what Yvert & Tellier call " Grosse tache de couleur". Thank you again for taking the time!!! |
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Mr. H
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Member - APS #129381
Posts: 935
What I collect: US, Netherlands, Whatever suits my fancy.
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Post by Mr. H on Aug 3, 2022 22:23:36 GMT
If I only had the one "blob" variety I would show it side by side with a regular issue. If I had multiple varieties, I would create a separate page and show the regular issue on the top and arrange the varieties underneath it.
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,710
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Aug 3, 2022 23:08:19 GMT
I have 2 Maury/Spink open in front of me - 2017 and 2022-23
I cannot find any description of what is shown (in previous post(s) on # 730 20f vert Marianne de Grandon gravée (2e série) but sure is interesting on a 1945 Stamp....de France !!
.......and my Marianne MH-VH in album does not show anything significant
René
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,654
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 4, 2022 5:38:35 GMT
Thanks for your follow-up, Eric ( ericdrive). Here is the link to the image: picclick.fr/Bande-De-3-N%C2%B0-60-60-313822429862.htmlI realize now that my earlier post left out an important detail about the web search. I used quote marks, as I sometimes do, to ensure that the search looks for a specific phrase or combination of words, which in this case was written: If you try the search that way, does the image come up? |
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ericdrive
**Member**
Posts: 23
What I collect: Argentina, France and Portugal (soon US and UK)
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Post by ericdrive on Aug 4, 2022 7:06:26 GMT
I used quote marks, as I sometimes do, to ensure that the search looks for a specific phrase or combination of words, which in this case was written: If you try the search that way, does the image come up? Thank you Beryllium Guy ! I did find the image. It is listed for sale as: FRANCE ** N °567 Bande De 10 Variété EUR 2,40 - PicClick FRAnd the name of the image file is: Variété-s-GANDON-n730-Chacun-gros-point-vert.jpgI'm not sure what Catalog that #567 is for. Since these are the more known catalogs: - Yvert et Tellier FR 730
- Michel FR 703
- Scott FR 553
- Stanley Gibbons FR 932
- Unificato FR 730
I also found another listing with the title: VARIETE N°486D A SAISIR voir catalogue dallay EUR 5,00 - PicClick FR.
This one had the following file name: 730-e-SUPER-VARIETE-grosse.jpg. Here's the image:  That 730-e is the number for the " Grosse tache de couleur" (big splash of color) variation: So, we found at least one dealer who thinks that these are the 730e variation. Unfortunately, their listings are no longer available, so I cannot see who these sellers are. But, the problem is that they're online dealers. So they could very well say that this is the variation 730e to earn some extra profit. Who knows. |
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,654
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 4, 2022 8:29:46 GMT
Hi again, Eric ( ericdrive), I got to thinking about your comment: I was originally confused by this No. 567, too. Upon reflection, I suspect that this just the seller's listing number and not a catalogue reference at all. But that's just a guess. Bottom line: I think that you have found an interesting stamp, something a bit out of the ordinary, and that there is a reasonable chance that it is the YT 730e variety listed in the catalogue. There are no guarantees, of course, as seller listings can be inaccurate, but I do think that you are on the right track. If you want to be a bit more sure, then I would suggest contacting a reputable dealer with experience in French stamps, and tell them you are looking for a YT 730e, and see if they can show you an example. If you don't know any such dealers, then please send me a PM, and I can refer you to one that I have worked with in the past, located in Paris. Other opinions are welcome, of course!  |
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 4, 2022 8:58:19 GMT
The variety "large splash of colour" if this is indeed the catalogue listed variety is WEIRD since the half dozen examples have the blotch all over the place.
One looks for consistency in a listable variety. a "CONSTANT VARIETY " these blotches are all over the place like a rash! Smacks of dirt or lint picking up ink in an untidy environment .
Unless there was a known, notorious dirty print run, producing numerous blotches at random and the "grosse tache de couleur" is a generic term to cover ANY such blemish wherever it occurs ?
We are talking of 1945, the immediate aftermath of the Occupation and the Liberation. I guess lots of France was still a mess and recovering and quality control less rigorous.
Does nothing similar occur in the other Values ?
By the way it is a lovely stamp with or without a "birthmark"
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,654
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 4, 2022 10:11:57 GMT
That’s a great point, Alex ( vikingeck), and for what it’s worth, I agree with you. I would have thought it should be more constant or consistent in order to qualify as a listed variety. And if it were a constant variety, an illustration would have been expected. |
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ericdrive
**Member**
Posts: 23
What I collect: Argentina, France and Portugal (soon US and UK)
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Post by ericdrive on Aug 4, 2022 10:19:03 GMT
The variety "large splash of colour" if this is indeed the catalogue listed variety is WEIRD since the half dozen examples have the blotch all over the place. One looks for consistency in a listable variety. a "CONSTANT VARIETY " these blotches are all over the place like a rash! Smacks of dirt or lint picking up ink in an untidy environment . Unless there was a known, notorious dirty print run, producing numerous blotches at random and the "grosse tache de couleur" is a generic term to cover ANY such blemish wherever it occurs ?We are talking of 1945, the immediate aftermath of the Occupation and the Liberation. I guess lots of France was still a mess and recovering and quality control less rigorous. Does nothing similar occur in the other Values ? By the way it is a lovely stamp with or without a "birthmark" Great points vikingeck. It makes total logical sense that a variety would be something consistent. I'll call it "My 730 with a blob" lol. I do feel this particular stamp has been made special already due to all the talk and research it and great conversations around it here at TSF. So, I'll keep it as my profile picture, and it'll have a special place in my collection. Thank you everyone for participating and helping!  Eric |
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