Andy Pastuszak
Member 
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591 
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 16, 2022 13:39:23 GMT
I have always been a typesetting and font nerd. When I was a Drexel University and had to buy a Mac, when I discovered I could install different fonts on it, I was thrilled.
So, I'm constantly playing around with different fonts to see what looks good.
In the last few days I discovered that Apple created a bunch of typefaces. One serif typeface is called New York. And there is a series of sans serif typefaces called San Francisco. Having always been a fan of typefaces such as Apple Garamond, I thought I would give them a try.
And I REALLY liked them.
Here is what I came up with.
Then I read the licensing terms for the fonts. You're not allowed to create and distribute print documents with them. According to Wikipedia:
For personal use, this obviously is not an issue. But since i post everything I do on my website for public consumption, this is an issue.
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Post by uppercanadian on Nov 16, 2022 14:19:16 GMT
Hi Andy,
I think that the fonts are very effective. I really like your layout. It is strong, but will not detract from the stamps themselves. I like the fact that you have a description for each of the stamps, outlining what they are commemorating. I do the same with my Canadian collection where I make my own pages.
I had no idea about the licensing of Apple fonts. Just another reason why I stay away from Apple products.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 17, 2022 17:41:09 GMT
I redid the page using only open source fonts, and this is what I came up with:
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Nov 17, 2022 18:06:35 GMT
Pages look great, as usual, Andy!
It's been a long long time since I used a Mac. But your post brought back memories of the early days of the Mac, in particular, the early obsolete Font/DA Mover utility we used to install/remove/rename fonts, and the slew of font creation utilities that soon followed. I remember that some of my friends were so happy to finally be able to figure out a way to replace the Chicago font on the early Mac systems!
Regarding the licensed fonts -- last decade I encountered a problem in the PC world with certain licensed fonts in pdfs, but not sure if it affects the Apple world.
A coworker created a pdf (he also tried this with ppt then save as pdf) that looked great on his computer/printer, but looked different and mis-formatted on everyone else's computer who received the file. Turns out, he had used a pretty but licensed font, which none of us had. He thought by using the portability of pdf in saving only the characters he actually used, everything would be OK. Don't know about now, but back then, our Adobe refused to save certain licensed fonts (do some of them have a security setting?). So once anyone else opened up the pdf on their laptop without the licensed font, Adobe would substitute a font, causing the different appearance/formatting.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Nov 17, 2022 18:12:40 GMT
I had no idea about the licensing of Apple fonts. Just another reason why I stay away from Apple products. This happens on PC platforms as well. There are several businesses that design and sell fonts. If they couldn't license/protect their distribution, they'd be out of business very quickly. For most of us, the fonts that come bundled with the Apple/PC systems are usually sufficient. |
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 17, 2022 18:16:50 GMT
Pages look great, as usual, Andy! It's been a long long time since I used a Mac. But your post brought back memories of the early days of the Mac, in particular, the early obsolete Font/DA Mover utility we used to install/remove/rename fonts, and the slew of font creation utilities that soon followed. I remember that some of my friends were so happy to finally be able to figure out a way to replace the Chicago font on the early Mac systems! Regarding the licensed fonts -- last decade I encountered a problem in the PC world with certain licensed fonts in pdfs, but not sure if it affects the Apple world. A coworker created a pdf (he also tried this with ppt then save as pdf) that looked great on his computer/printer, but looked different and mis-formatted on everyone else's computer who received the file. Turns out, he had used a pretty but licensed font, which none of us had. He thought by using the portability of pdf in saving only the characters he actually used, everything would be OK. Don't know about now, but back then, our Adobe refused to save certain licensed fonts (do some of them have a security setting?). So once anyone else opened up the pdf on their laptop without the licensed font, Adobe would substitute a font, causing the different appearance/formatting. Newer versions of PDF allowed you to embed a full or partial font. That eliminated the need to have the font installed. I remember the old Font/DA Mover. I was really happy when that went away with System 7, and you just had to drag fonts into the Fonts folder. |
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eggdog
Member
I want a new Harley!
Posts: 464
What I collect: It's complicated....
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Post by eggdog on Nov 17, 2022 18:41:17 GMT
If they couldn't license/protect their distribution, they'd be out of business very quickly. For most of us, the fonts that come bundled with the Apple/PC systems are usually sufficient. True, and I've spent way too much money on designer fonts over the years. But as far as I know - and I think I would know because I've been doing newsletters and magazines since the 1980s (with marginal competence for many of these years) - Microsoft never put any restrictions on what you could use the Windows core fonts for. Andy is right in that the "portable document format" has gotten a lot more portable over the years. You used to have to have the exact same font on the recipient's end. Now I can send the most obscure fonts to a printer with no worries, unless the font has some flaw in it that made it hard to export to .pdf. I had one that couldn't export an á to save its life. It was fine with Π and ł, but not with á. Go figure. |
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,655
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Nov 17, 2022 18:55:28 GMT
Andy Pastuszak - Very attractive fonts and design - You have an artistic eye.  I know I definitely do not have any graphic design talent so I just use Hagnars and Varios.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Nov 17, 2022 20:04:46 GMT
Newer versions of PDF allowed you to embed a full or partial font. Yes, our version did incorporate that feature. However, but it wouldn't do it for certain proprietary fonts. How Adobe recognized they were proprietary, don't know. But it definitely would not embed certain licensed fonts -- the font name, yes, but not the font subset. But this was over 5 years ago. |
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,709
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Nov 17, 2022 21:39:07 GMT
There are so many clone fonts that once really may not need the original font.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 18, 2022 3:58:19 GMT
If they couldn't license/protect their distribution, they'd be out of business very quickly. For most of us, the fonts that come bundled with the Apple/PC systems are usually sufficient. True, and I've spent way too much money on designer fonts over the years. But as far as I know - and I think I would know because I've been doing newsletters and magazines since the 1980s (with marginal competence for many of these years) - Microsoft never put any restrictions on what you could use the Windows core fonts for. Andy is right in that the "portable document format" has gotten a lot more portable over the years. You used to have to have the exact same font on the recipient's end. Now I can send the most obscure fonts to a printer with no worries, unless the font has some flaw in it that made it hard to export to .pdf. I had one that couldn't export an á to save its life. It was fine with Π and ł, but not with á. Go figure. The Microosft core fonts are definitely protected by license and cannot be freely distributed. You have a license that comes with Windows that allows you to use those fonts with the copy of Windows you bought. But you're not allowed to copy them off and put them on a Macintosh or Linux computer. Most of the Microsoft core fonts were not created by Microsoft. They're licensed from type foundries. The same goes for Macintosh. Very few of the fonts Apple provides were actually created by Apple. They're licensed, and the license allows you to use them as you see fit, on the computer you installed MacOS on.
So, if you're sitting on a Windows computer and create a free newsletter using Times New Roman and print out 100 copies and hand it out to your stamp collecting club, nobody is going to care. But if you use it in a magazine you distribute to Barnes and Noble and sell copies of, you need to buy a license, even if it came free with your operating system.
Now when it comes to these Apple fonts, they were designed in-house by Apple, and are designed to be used for the UI of Apple applications. They're not designed or licensed for print use.
I'm sure I could use these in my pages and then put them on my website for free download and Apple legal would probably NEVER bother me. Heck, someone pointed out that Apple San Francisco was used on a bunch of billboards for some Europeans politicians re-election campaign. A few people reported it to Apple, and Apple did nothing about it.
But I don't want to do that.
One of the ideas behind my pages is that anyone should be able to install the software and fonts I use and hack my pages to their content. That's why I chose to use open source software (Scribus) and open source fonts to design my pages. The barrier to entry for stamphacks.com is $0.00.
I have to say that no one that I know of has ever actually modified one of my pages, and I have never seen them for sale anywhere, so I am pretty sure I am still very under everyone's radar.
Well, except Ted The Talking Stamp Collector. He featured my pages on a video on YouTube.
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jdtrue66
Member
Inactive
Posts: 287
What I collect: US&US FDC, Keys & Locks, NUDES, Rubber Ducks, USS NJ covers
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Post by jdtrue66 on Nov 18, 2022 4:04:49 GMT
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 18, 2022 4:42:22 GMT
Something else to look at. If you find a font you like that’s pretty common, oftentimes there is an open source version of that font. The word Ukraine on the top of my page is in the font Palatino, which is a commercial licensed font. But there is a 100% glyph compatible open source version of that font called URW Palladio.
RedHat has open source versions of the standard MS Fonts (Arial, Courier New, Times New Roman, etc). They’re not 100% matches, but they are drop in replacements.
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Post by michael on Nov 18, 2022 9:16:14 GMT
Nice page but I much prefer the open source font above.
You want the text and font to suppliment the main interest in the page, the stamps, not dominate the page.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,709
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Nov 18, 2022 11:42:29 GMT
I would describe Andy's choice of fonts as looking for a more classic look for the heading fonts but the sans-serif description font is more modern.
For my AFSEC pages, I have been using Minion Pro (open source version). When I did a study of serif fonts, I found most fell into two metric classes so this allows you to pick a metric family and have the choice of many fonts without causing formatting changes.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 18, 2022 15:27:41 GMT
I would describe Andy's choice of fonts as looking for a more classic look for the heading fonts but the sans-serif description font is more modern. For my AFSEC pages, I have been using Minion Pro (open source version). When I did a study of serif fonts, I found most fell into two metric classes so this allows you to pick a metric family and have the choice of many fonts without causing formatting changes. I used as serif font for the description and just didn't like the way it turned out.
I just discovered a new free typeface called Reforma:
It has a serif, sans-serif and an "in-between" variant. I used a mix of the three. What do you think?
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Post by greaden on Nov 18, 2022 15:59:52 GMT
It has a serif, sans-serif and an "in-between" variant. I used a mix of the three. What do you think?
The title starting with numbers that match the lower case letters is distracting. |
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 18, 2022 18:00:31 GMT
It has a serif, sans-serif and an "in-between" variant. I used a mix of the three. What do you think?
The title starting with numbers that match the lower case letters is distracting. That's bothering me a little too. |
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 18, 2022 18:01:03 GMT
How about a page with no borders.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 19, 2022 4:22:19 GMT
OK, here is the one I like the best.
Here is what we have.
The Page title is in the font Domitian, which is an open source clone of Palatino
The Stamp Name is in the font Libre Caslon Text.
The Date is done in Nimbus Roman 9L Italics
The Catalog Number is Nimbus Sans L
The Stamp Description is Reforma 1969 Blanca
The whole thing is printed on my Epson ET-2750 Inkjet printer on Staples 32 lb. Ivory Laser Printer Paper.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 19, 2022 4:27:30 GMT
And here is the same page on my laser printer
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brightonpete
Departed
Rest in Peace
On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Nov 19, 2022 15:30:35 GMT
I downloaded and installed before I read about the numbers. Text looks nice though, but numbers always pepper most anything I write! Oh well...
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brightonpete
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Nov 19, 2022 15:37:53 GMT
The final version looks good, but wow... that's am load of fonts you use! I try to keep things simple using 2 fonts. Two serif weights + italics, and a sans-serif.
And of the two, the laser of course looks best. How is the curling of the paper? I flipped the page over and and bent the page over a few times varying the bend. That helped somewhat, but it was still curling a bit. Once it went in the page protector and in the binder, it wasn't too bad.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 19, 2022 16:28:07 GMT
The final version looks good, but wow... that's am load of fonts you use! I try to keep things simple using 2 fonts. Two serif weights + italics, and a sans-serif.
And of the two, the laser of course looks best. How is the curling of the paper? I flipped the page over and and bent the page over a few times varying the bend. That helped somewhat, but it was still curling a bit. Once it went in the page protector and in the binder, it wasn't too bad. It's 32 lb paper, so I don't need to use the "Thicker Paper" setting. It curls, but isn't horrible. Throwing the pages in my DIY book press seems to get the curl down to an acceptable level.
The paper I have been trying to find is a 32 lb, cream colored paper that's inkjet friendly. Well, after days of Internet searches, I could not find anything. I found accent opaque brand paper, but it only came in 11 x17. If I could find a local print shop that could cut it in half, I might have gone that route.
But the Staples paper is readily available around the corner from my house. It's a little pricey, though. But I've seen the stuff sitting in Staples for years now.
I bought 28 lb. cream colored Accent Opaque Digitial paper from Amazon earlier this year. It's a great paper to use for Mystic pages. But the stuff seems to be out of stock everywhere.
It would really suck to get locked into a paper and then have it disappear on you.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 19, 2022 18:09:28 GMT
Final tweak. I made the borders thinner. I think this looks much better.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Nov 19, 2022 18:51:34 GMT
Honest opinion and feelings on this Andy , I can hardly see enough difference from first to last to justify the effort and concern.
For me, as Shakespeare has it “ much ado about nothing”.
I realise you want to get the best font and borders that please you ………but how many sheets , how much ink and how much time have you spent on this one page ?
I feel Your final screen has too much negative space in the middle and as a consequence looks squashed at the top. If you only have 4 stamps why is the title rammed up against the top frame?
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 19, 2022 19:19:45 GMT
Honest opinion and feelings on this Andy , I can hardly see enough difference from first to last to justify the effort and concern. For me, as Shakespeare has it “ much ado about nothing”. I realise you want to get the best font and borders that please you ………but how many sheets , how much ink and how much time have you spent on this one page ? I feel Your final screen has too much negative space in the middle and as a consequence looks squashed at the top. If you only have 4 stamps why is the title rammed up against the top frame? I totally agree. This is my obsessive-compulsive side of typography kicking in. |
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 19, 2022 19:36:29 GMT
Export to image, to save on paper
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Post by greaden on Nov 19, 2022 21:41:09 GMT
The topic interests me. I have not started to make pages but only slips of paper for Vario sheets.
I am currently using Book Antiqua, as that is close to the font used in a lot of early postmarks.
I used to use acrobatic fonts vaguely tailored to collecting areas, but later found them too cute except for Fraktur for my German States. I doubt I will use again: Marker Felt, Copperplate Gothic, Brush Script MT, Herculanum, Lucida Blackletter, Mistral.
Checking through my annotations page, I find I went through phases for Mongolian Baiti, engravers MT, American Typewriter, Courier, Cambria, Times (when I need to cram a lot of text into a few lines), Baskerville.
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Andy Pastuszak
Member
Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,591
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Nov 22, 2022 3:55:48 GMT
There are THOUSANDS of fonts out there now. For someone as obsessed as me, there will probably ALWAYS be something I think looks better. I really need to settle on something I think looks "good enough" and move on to the next thing.
My original obsession was to duplicate White Ace pages. But I learned something about White Ace pages. They look amazing. But if you change anything about them, the border, the font, the page backgroud, then it suddenly doesn't look at good to me.
When I started making my stamp pages, I was revisiting my obsession with amateur typography. If I had to do it all over again, there are probably lots of things I would change.
What's interesting is that early on, I made 2 changes to my Ukraine pages, one major and one minor. The major was that MICHEL granted me a license to use their numbers for free, so I went back and edited all the pages to include MICHEL numbers. I got some complaints from people that I was not using Scott numbers. I told everyone I tried to use Scott numbers, and Scott would not give me a license. But I really didn't get that many complaints.
The second change was, in my opinion, super minor. The original pages had the Ukrainian flag and a map of Ukraine on the top of each page. The flag was an SVG graphic, which is vector art. It will scale smoothly to any size. The map of Ukraine was a bitmap graphic, which means it could get a little jagged if scaled too big. Well, I found an SVG of the map of Ukraine. I made it the same color as the old bitmap and replaced the bitmap with the SVG. This was s uper subtle change, and it makes the edges of the map every so slightly smoother.
Well, when I made that change, a bunch of people said that I was making "too many changes," and that they were going to stop using my album.
I make the album for myself, and give it away for free. I get no validation from people using the pages. Heck I'm pretty sure the Mystic hacks are probably 100 times more popular than the Ukrainian pages.
I've only ever had one person email me and ask for help with hacking my pages, and that was for the Mystic pages.
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I know I definitely do not have any graphic design talent so I just use Hagnars and Varios. 
