sudbury12000
Member 
Posts: 315
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Mar 16, 2023 14:27:33 GMT
Hello, if this is in another thread, please let me know.
I received some this week and have some others, but for the life of me I cannot figure out the different types of Syllabic Characters, and was hoping someone could help!
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,616 
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Mar 16, 2023 14:34:10 GMT
I cannot help with the characters but they are Japanese and I believe all are revenue stamps. There are some good Japanese Revenue sites that I found before via Google. It is worth a search.
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sudbury12000
Member
Posts: 315
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Mar 16, 2023 15:38:27 GMT
I cannot help with the characters but they are Japanese and I believe all are revenue stamps. There are some good Japanese Revenue sites that I found before via Google. It is worth a search. Thank you. I have been searching. These stamps are in the Scott Classic Catalogue, but there are different types. ( I think, but this we way beyond my area of expertise, if I have one) |
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Philatarium
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Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,032
What I collect: Primarily focused on Japan, but lots of other material catches my eye as well ...
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Post by Philatarium on Mar 16, 2023 15:55:13 GMT
I was preparing this little image before you had written your last post. Based on that last post, it sounds like you have a Scott catalog that shows the different characters and describes more or less their location, but I'll go on and post it here in case it might be helpful to someone else. |
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Philatarium
Member
Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,032
What I collect: Primarily focused on Japan, but lots of other material catches my eye as well ...
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Post by Philatarium on Mar 16, 2023 15:56:33 GMT
But if I'm understanding correctly, you're still having difficulty identifying which character might be on the stamp?
If so, I can take your image and try to highlight where they are located. Give me a minute ...
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,641
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Post by salentin on Mar 16, 2023 16:05:57 GMT
Upper row: 6 Sen 20 (I´m not 100% sure about that) 10 Sen 4 12 Sen 1 lower row: 45 Sen obscured by the cancel 12 Sen 1 30 Sen 4
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,616
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Mar 16, 2023 16:06:56 GMT
I cannot help with the characters but they are Japanese and I believe all are revenue stamps. There are some good Japanese Revenue sites that I found before via Google. It is worth a search. Thank you. I have been searching. These stamps are in the Scott Classic Catalogue, but there are different types. ( I think, but this we way beyond my area of expertise, if I have one) Oops! I jumped to conclusions too fast again without checking to see if they were actual stamps. They are an earlier era than most of my Japanese classics so I did not instantly recognize them. Japan stamps appear to be very complex for sure. The Scott Classic Catalogue has some information which only confuses me more. Like you, it is beyond my pay grade. |
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Philatarium
Member
Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,032
What I collect: Primarily focused on Japan, but lots of other material catches my eye as well ...
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Post by Philatarium on Mar 16, 2023 16:12:49 GMT
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Linda
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Ex-mathematician turned visual artist and touring cyclist to bike across Canada, Europe, Japan etc.
Posts: 1,262 
What I collect: Mostly Canadian and European stamps about art / science / landscape
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Post by Linda on Mar 16, 2023 16:26:22 GMT
Hello, if this is in another thread, please let me know.
I received some this week and have some others, but for the life of me I cannot figure out the different types of Syllabic Characters, and was hoping someone could help!
Where did you get the second digit in each of these? I don't see the second digit ... I can read Japanese but I can't say to understand properly these 'stamps'. 郵便 = post, as in 郵便局 = post office, or 日本郵便 = Japan Post. 切手 = (postage) stamp 銭 = cent (or in this case, it seems to be spelled as 'sen'), unit in Japanese currency All other characters refer to numbers, which are identical to the numeral indicated on each of them. That is to say, Top row = 6 sen; 10 sen; 12 sen. Bottom row = 45 sen, 12 sen, 30 sen. I also see some tiny symbols inscribed into rectancgles at the bottom of each stamp (as Philatarium pointed out): 子: this is a kanji, which means 'child'. 二: this can be a kanji (which means 'number 2') or a kanataka (which is pronounced as 'ni'), without a context, I am not sure which one it is. イ: this is a kanatana which is pronounced as 'i' (as in s'ee' in English). Guessing from the character イ, I think 二 may be a katakana, but 子 wouldn't make any sense. If we take these 3 symbols to be kanji, イ wouldn't make sense. So I am not sure what these may refer to ... |
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sudbury12000
Member
Posts: 315
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Mar 16, 2023 16:54:58 GMT
Thank you, exactly what I was looking for! I had no idea from the Scott directions where to look. |
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Philatarium
Member
Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,032
What I collect: Primarily focused on Japan, but lots of other material catches my eye as well ...
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Post by Philatarium on Mar 16, 2023 17:05:08 GMT
I'll just quickly add that these stamps are among those that are highly forged. Here's the Scott catalog warning:  The ISJP (International Society for Japanese Philately) has a section on its website showing how to identify the most common forgeries. Those forgeries (called 'signed forgeries') actually say 'specimen', 'reference', etc on them in Japanese. Sometimes those characters are explicit and easy to spot, sometimes they are hidden. And oftentimes the cancellations were placed on the stamp to obscure those characters.
Here is the section for the 'cherry blossom' stamps, which these are.
isjp.org/cherry-blossoms/
You need to hover over 'cherry blossoms' in the subnavigation line, and then select a denomination to see examples for that denomination.
For instance, here's the page for the 12-sen denomination:
isjp.org/twelve-sen/
There are also 'unsigned forgeries', so it's a lot more complicated that just seeing if it has the little characters on it.
One easy technique to spot a forgery is to count the number of petals in the chrysanthemum crest. If it's something different than 16 petals, then it is for sure a forgery. However, if it has 16 petals, you can't assume the opposite, that it is genuine. Additional examination would be required. |
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salentin
Member
collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,641
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Post by salentin on Mar 17, 2023 12:40:50 GMT
Linda, I do not really understand,what you mean by second digit. I have no knowledge of Kanji-characters,nore do I need such,to identify the syllabic characters. The only knowledge I need is,where on a stamp to look for them. Then I compare the character with a listing,like shown by Philatarium. Linguistic details,as interesting as they are,are out of my scope as a stamp collector.
As far as forgeries are concerned,this is a different matter. "A wide field",as Fontane might have said.
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Linda
Member
Ex-mathematician turned visual artist and touring cyclist to bike across Canada, Europe, Japan etc.
Posts: 1,262
What I collect: Mostly Canadian and European stamps about art / science / landscape
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Post by Linda on Mar 17, 2023 16:09:48 GMT
Upper row: 6 Sen 20 (I´m not 100% sure about that) 10 Sen 4 12 Sen 1 lower row: 45 Sen obscured by the cancel 12 Sen 1 30 Sen 4
By second digits I meant these digits highlighted in bold. |
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Mar 17, 2023 16:39:52 GMT
Linda, if you look at Dave's ( Philatarium ) post earlier in this thread that shows the excerpt from the Scott Catalogue, you will see that Scott assigns numbers (1-23) to each syllabic character. I think what Werner ( salentin ) has done is use those numbers after the denomination of each stamp to indicate his identification of the syllabic characters. Does that make sense?
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Linda
Member
Ex-mathematician turned visual artist and touring cyclist to bike across Canada, Europe, Japan etc.
Posts: 1,262
What I collect: Mostly Canadian and European stamps about art / science / landscape
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Post by Linda on Mar 17, 2023 21:11:07 GMT
Thank you Beryllium Guy, now I understand where salentin got the digits! Yes, in this context as Philatarium has shown, they (子, 二, イ) are all katakana. I didn't know 'ne' was once upon the time written as「子」. Today, it's「ネ」. |
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khj
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Posts: 1,469
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Post by khj on Mar 17, 2023 22:22:28 GMT
I didn't know 'ne' was once upon the time written as「子」. Today, it's「ネ」. Yes, the transition occurred during the late 19th century. |
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