madbaker
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Posts: 693 
What I collect: (Mark) General worldwide collector (to 1975 or so) with a soft spot for Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia.
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Post by madbaker on Jul 11, 2023 5:36:28 GMT
Hello! I'm working my way through a mix of Chinese stamps I've been avoiding for a few years. I wonder if you can help me with them. I'm down to two stamps from this issue that I can't place: 
I've identified two of the four since I made the scan. Here's what I think I know.
#1 - don't know. Scott lists an $800 overprint but this one is clearly $500. (I have several $800 overprints to compare to)
#2 - Szechuan, according to the site referenced in another thread. "Digital Taiwan"
#3 - don't know.
So any help with #1 and #3 would sure be appreciated! 
PS - of course this is one of the first of several issues chock full of overprints. I made it through the Junks OK and I'm hoping that I'll get better at this as I go.
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madbaker
Member
Posts: 693
What I collect: (Mark) General worldwide collector (to 1975 or so) with a soft spot for Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia.
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Post by madbaker on Jul 11, 2023 5:41:22 GMT
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,656
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jul 11, 2023 5:59:35 GMT
Thanks for your post, Mark ( madbaker)! I have a bunch of these tucked away somewhere too that I have been avoiding for years. Let’s tag some members who might be able to help: khjLindadarkormex |
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,467
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Post by khj on Jul 11, 2023 6:57:41 GMT
Yes, stamp #4, in the top line reading from right to left, the 2nd & 3rd characters indicate Taiwan.
In the Scott catalog, it will be listed in Republic of China, BOB section, Taiwan #22(1947)
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khj
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Posts: 1,467
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Post by khj on Jul 11, 2023 7:14:55 GMT
For the other stamps, also in the Scott catalog in Republic of China, BOB section:
Stamp 1: Northeastern Provinces #44(1947)
Stamp 2: Szechwan Province #5(1933)
The 3rd stamp is overprinted as a Postal Savings Stamp, along with a local Henan (Honan) overprint in bottom half. It will not be Scott listed.
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,656
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jul 11, 2023 11:05:15 GMT
Thanks, khj! I had a feeling you would know about these! |
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madbaker
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Posts: 693
What I collect: (Mark) General worldwide collector (to 1975 or so) with a soft spot for Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia.
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Post by madbaker on Jul 11, 2023 14:31:48 GMT
For the other stamps, also in the Scott catalog in Republic of China, BOB section: Stamp 1: Northeastern Provinces #44(1947) Stamp 2: Szechwan Province #5(1933) The 3rd stamp is overprinted as a Postal Savings Stamp, along with a local Henan (Honan) overprint in bottom half. It will not be Scott listed.
Hooray! Thank you. I've got a Scott catalogue from the library but missed them all.
Thanks especially for #3 - the red overprint is super legible so I was stumped that I couldn't find it. I'll use it as a reference as I go through the later issues.
And I wasn't sure if the pale blue markings at the bottom of the stamp was an overprint or part of a postmark! Thanks for clearing that up.
PS - this batch of stamps makes me realize that the lighting at my stamp table is poor indeed. I'm reading the catalogue with such intensity I needed the flashlight of my phone and some magnification too!  |
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,467
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Post by khj on Jul 11, 2023 22:42:03 GMT
On the Postal Savings Stamp, reading from right to left the first line, the 2nd & 3rd characters identify it as financial/savings (i.e., Postal Savings), and the different 4th character combined with the 5th character indicate it is specifically for this type of use. So basically, the overprint means that the postage stamp has been converted/restricted for financial use.
The very light 2-character overprint at the bottom indicates the province. These were all local overprints, to counter theft and usage in other areas. For US collectors, this is the equivalent of the Kansas-Nebraska overprints.
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madbaker
Member
Posts: 693
What I collect: (Mark) General worldwide collector (to 1975 or so) with a soft spot for Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia.
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Post by madbaker on Jul 14, 2023 3:43:08 GMT
Well, I made it through the "Martyr" issue. What a mix. Secret Marks, watermarks or not, and surcharges and overprints galore! I got them all, sort of. Here's my roughly sorted 'provincial' issues, just to prove that I'm trying. I'm curious about the bottom row though. I can't find any information about the green overprint. I wonder if you might have some insight, @kjh? Here's a close up:  Oh, and a supplementary question: - that top left stamp - Inner Mongolia, with the lovely two tone overprints. The Scott listing is for the 1941 printing, with a 'secret mark'. But the stamp I have is the earlier printing, without a 'secret mark'. Have I won the lottery? I could really use some cash for a round the world trip.  |
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khj
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Posts: 1,467
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Post by khj on Jul 14, 2023 13:21:50 GMT
Great job! I'm curious about the bottom row though. I can't find any information about the green overprint. I wonder if you might have some insight. The green surcharges are the Chinese National Currency surcharges of 1945, thus distinguishing them from the Shanghai regional issues. From left to right, Republic of China Scott numbers: 619, 616, 616 k |
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,467
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Post by khj on Jul 14, 2023 13:50:56 GMT
that top left stamp - Inner Mongolia, with the lovely two tone overprints. The Scott listing is for the 1941 printing, with a 'secret mark'. But the stamp I have is the earlier printing, without a 'secret mark'. The 2nd line in red is a surcharge of $1, so the stamp is a $1 on 8c Inner Mongolia stamp. That would make it Scott Meng Chiang #2N127(1945). Sorry, you may have to fund your world trip from another source. I never checked, but I believe the 8c stamp used to make that surcharge is from the Peking printing. If you compare to the original Martyr issue, the stamp should be about 1.5mm wider. k |
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madbaker
Member
Posts: 693
What I collect: (Mark) General worldwide collector (to 1975 or so) with a soft spot for Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia.
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Post by madbaker on Jul 15, 2023 2:01:14 GMT
Wow, thanks again @kjh. I shouldn't expect it to be easy, given I can't read the characters (yet! haha) but it's fascinating to me how an extra mark puts it 5-6 pages over in the catalogue. Scott has many challenges being an 'all things to all people' worldwide catalogue, but a decision tree or primer for these issues would be extremely helpful. For what it's worth, I don't find the online catalogues like colnect or stampworld to be any better in this regard. That martyr issue is fun in that they list the first issue of the set (the one without 'secret marks', printed in the 1930's) and then have a half page of references to other listings in the catalogue. And I see the next issue has an even longer list. Good info, poorly sorted, when you have a handful of mystery stamps in front of you. I guess that's what the specialized catalogues are for. |
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madbaker
Member
Posts: 693
What I collect: (Mark) General worldwide collector (to 1975 or so) with a soft spot for Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia.
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Post by madbaker on Jul 16, 2023 0:24:26 GMT
I went back over my Scott catalogue (well, the 2021 library edition!) and found the two listings you shared, khj . Fascinating. I totally missed the second 'peking' printing (in which the 8c stamp is listed on its lonesome) and the note about the green overprints as well. The standard Scott listing format sure doesn't match the real life flow of these issues. That being said, I think it justifies a custom sort of these long running, oft changing definitive issues. The story gets lost in a 'organized according to Scott' re-telling. (and yes, I'm looking at the China Stamp Society website in another tab. I'm a generalist...I'm a generalist...  ) |
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madbaker
Member
Posts: 693
What I collect: (Mark) General worldwide collector (to 1975 or so) with a soft spot for Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia.
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Post by madbaker on Jul 16, 2023 0:42:33 GMT
Triple fascinating. The issue of 'China Clipper' journal, currently online at the China Stamp Society website, has an interesting article about the surcharges on these stamps and other low value definitives that were on hand at the time. The circumstances in China at the end of WWII caused issues and decisions that go far beyond what a general listing can explain. The context around those wild and woolly pages in Scott is rich indeed. What a hobby, eh? Here's a link to the article: www.chinastampsociety.org/files/Issue-87-2.pdf |
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khj
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Posts: 1,467
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Post by khj on Jul 16, 2023 1:12:57 GMT
Be forewarned, there are a handful of overprints/surcharges that are not premium items that are not listed in Scott. I am not referring to printer's wastes. Some are listed in SG or Michel, but I feel even more lost when using SG/Michel on the overprints/surcharges. Probably not due to disorganization, but more that I've gotten used to Scott's mess.
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,604
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Jul 16, 2023 2:48:50 GMT
I have hundreds of these Chinese overprints that I spent countless hours on over the years as I kept acquiring them in old collections I would buy. I use Scott as well and I have eventually found each one. Sometimes I would just walk away from them for a day or 2. They are like a jigsaw puzzle. I add to my own grief by squeezing them onto pages in my Scott world wide album where there are not spaces for each one so they are spread out over a few dozen pages. Even with some Chinese stamps taking off in value these ones have moved little.
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madbaker
Member
Posts: 693
What I collect: (Mark) General worldwide collector (to 1975 or so) with a soft spot for Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia.
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Post by madbaker on Jul 16, 2023 6:56:34 GMT
Sometimes I would just walk away from them for a day or 2. They are like a jigsaw puzzle.
That's a great analogy. I spent an hour on one of the Sun Yat Sen issues and am getting much better at it. But it's best if I tackle them in stages.
- the base stamps. Find the 3 or four printings, the secret marks, the green - olive green differences (often guessing as i only have one copy!)
- the surcharges with 'latin' numerals (or is it arabic? the 1 - 2 -3 's)
- rough sort the additional overprints and dive into the back of the book. I can already tell Szechwan province on site, sort of.
Or in jigsaw terms, edge pieces, main figures and then all the sky.
It's enjoyable, for sure.
---
This lot is part of a banker box of stamps I bought from a former co-worker five or so years ago. He was a doctor and a fairly serious collector, but stopped in the mid-1970's. She inherited around eight boxes of stamps, including a stellar collection of early British North America, along with a hefty selection of basic WW approvals, Canadian new issues, etc. I 'appraised' it all over several evenings, told her the good stuff was out of my price range, and bought his WW 'miscellaneous' box. Win-win, as I've still got two shoeboxes of envelopes to process. I haven't found anything cataloguing over $10, (I'd be hard pressed to recall anything over $5) but I've had dozens of hours of fun.
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angore
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Posts: 5,352
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jul 16, 2023 10:45:05 GMT
Is there some handy dandy overprint identifier I could print out or some sorting guide? I am looking at some now and just started separating China from Taiwan.
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madbaker
Member
Posts: 693
What I collect: (Mark) General worldwide collector (to 1975 or so) with a soft spot for Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia.
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Post by madbaker on Jan 30, 2024 5:20:07 GMT
Hello again! I spent the evening cataloguing a dozen stamps with overprints from the 1940 Hong Kong printing definitives. I am down to the final stamp in the stack and it has me stumped:
The base stamp is Scott #387. Perf. 14, no watermark, with the 'Secret Mark' on the upper left. But I can't place the overprint at all. Can anyone help?
Bonus Q: Am I correct that the right side markings will identify the location/purpose, and the left side markings the new denomination? I'm sensing a bit of a pattern where the left side changes based on the new stamp value, even if there is a box with the new value in numerals.
and a PS: The vignette is shifted down a bit on this stamp. First time I've noticed this. Now if only I can get it to flip upside down!
Thanks!
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rod222
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Posts: 9,910
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jan 30, 2024 6:29:40 GMT
Hello again! I spent the evening cataloguing a dozen stamps with overprints from the 1940 Hong Kong printing definitives. I am down to the final stamp in the stack and it has me stumped:
The base stamp is Scott #387. Perf. 14, no watermark, with the 'Secret Mark' on the upper left. But I can't place the overprint at all. Can anyone help?
Bonus Q: Am I correct that the right side markings will identify the location/purpose, and the left side markings the new denomination? I'm sensing a bit of a pattern where the left side changes based on the new stamp value, even if there is a box with the new value in numerals.
and a PS: The vignette is shifted down a bit on this stamp. First time I've noticed this. Now if only I can get it to flip upside down!
Thanks!
Hi, This is a "Postal Savings stamp" Opt seems to be from HunanThis stamp is not in my collection, I need to do some more specific research. I have it as a KWANGTUNG overprint on DAH TUNG SYS
Guangdong formerly romanized as Canton or Kwangtung, is a coastal province located in South China, on the north shore of the South China Sea$1 Sun Yat Sen Scott type A57 A similar Opt on Scott Type A62 
Here are the Kwangtung Listingss
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madbaker
Member
Posts: 693
What I collect: (Mark) General worldwide collector (to 1975 or so) with a soft spot for Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia.
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Post by madbaker on Jan 30, 2024 18:51:19 GMT
Wow, thanks for the detailed response, rod222. I'll study this closely. 💖🙏 |
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rod222
Member
Posts: 9,910
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jan 31, 2024 0:25:42 GMT
Wow, thanks for the detailed response, rod222 . I'll study this closely. 💖🙏 You're welcome For years, these stamps languished in my "too hard basket" until a colleague (Calstamp from Florida) gifted me this monograph. I found employing the Scott "type" was an easy way to ID the ubiquitous China overprints When I searched for "type A57" I was surprised your stamp did not appear, or pop up So, for me, you have an very uncommon stamp I had to delve into the monograph. So... thanks to you too |
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