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Post by ponso1 on Aug 3, 2023 21:13:24 GMT
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stainlessb
Member 
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,649
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Aug 3, 2023 21:34:14 GMT
I can't tell from your image, but see if you can get a close up of the overprint and cancel... It looks like the overprint may be "on top" of the obliteration... If the cancellation is on top you may wanrt to seek expertization
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Mr. H
Member
Member - APS #129381
Posts: 937
What I collect: US, Netherlands, Whatever suits my fancy.
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Post by Mr. H on Aug 3, 2023 22:19:32 GMT
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,157 
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Post by rex on Aug 4, 2023 5:16:45 GMT
The Scott is not correct, issued stamp, now I'm in the car .. I'll come back with more details ..
Even the cancellation is authentic.
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator 
Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 4, 2023 5:22:48 GMT
Thanks for your post, ponso1 . It's an interesting stamp, that's for sure. I should begin by saying that I have no special expertise in this area. I think that both Stan ( stainlessb ) and Mark ( Mr. H ) have responded well (many thanks, guys). As Stan has mentioned, I also think that it is much more likely that the stamp and cancel are genuine, and that it is the overprint that has been forged. Cancelled copies of the underlying stamp are inexpensive and plentiful, so a perfect scenario for someone looking to improve their prospects with a bit of skullduggery! I also think that Mark's eBay example appears to have a genuine overprint. Just look at the overprint and compare it to what you can see in the Scott Catalogue image. They look identical to me. Then compare them to yours. As Mark mentioned, the 2 is crooked on yours, and overall the font of the overprint in yours does not look consistent with the catalogue image, either. It's just my opinion, and of course, others are welcome to offer theirs. Hope this helps. 
Edit: I see that Ludovico ( rex ) has posted while I was writing mine. Let's see what he has to say. It sounds like he is heading in the direction that the Scott listing may not be correct in stating that the overprinted stamps were not issued. I will be interested to see what additional info Ludovico has about that. But issued or not, I do think that the genuineness of the overprint on your stamp is in question. |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,157
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Post by rex on Aug 4, 2023 7:20:45 GMT
The overprint with the new value is dated June 1922 by the Officina Carte Valori of Turin. The specialized Sassone catalog says that only a small number of these stamps were sent to Smyrna and they were all canceled with military postmark 171. Now, considering that the catalog value is 40 euros in new condition and the value in used condition is not reported, I don't think there was a rush to forge these stamps. What makes me believe they are authentic is precisely the military postmark, a large circle with empty lunettes which, in my opinion, would appear authentic. Below are some examples of military postal cancellation 171, which is of the same type used on our postage stamp.   |
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ameis33
Member
What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet
Posts: 505
What I collect: Poland and Italy Republic
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Post by ameis33 on Aug 4, 2023 7:32:38 GMT
Here you can see how a "POSTA MILITARE 171" postmark looks like. Your postmark looks like "POSTE ?(ITALIANE?)" and also the overprint seems above the postmark, and also the shape of some letter in the overprint (i.e. 2) doesn't look like the one in the catalogs... By my side, it is a regular cancelled stamp withour overprint with a forged overprint applied... On unused stamps the catalog value doesn't justify the work, but used stamps in the catalog doesn't have a value assigned, which means something like "rare"...
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,157
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Post by rex on Aug 4, 2023 7:41:57 GMT
I think you're right Roberto, .. I was in the car and I didn't see well .. However, I don't remember having seen a 'Poste Italiane' cancellation with lunettes.. maybe I'm remembering wrong..?? 
However the E casts some doubts....
Yes, ..the written poste and the lunettes are in the wrong place.. now it's clear to me. Fake postmark and overprint. Too bad .. it was nice to dream it authentic. The Unificato catalog even lists them as "not issued |
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Post by ponso1 on Aug 11, 2023 2:47:24 GMT
Wow! Thanks all for the interesting and educational responses! Really appreciated!
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