sudbury12000
Member
Posts: 315
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Aug 14, 2023 14:34:02 GMT
I received this stamp in a lot this week. I cannot find any reference to the stamps being used in foreign offices, this one is postmarked "Batavia" and as far as I know that was controlled by the Dutch at that time. The date is not complete, January 11, but the year is missing. It appears to be SG#14a.(Orange) I posted the 6 Cent as well, as it appears to be a revenue and postal cancel, not sure.
Any help would surely be appreciated.
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Post by paul1 on Aug 14, 2023 15:09:12 GMT
might the date be 1st February?
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,659
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 14, 2023 22:00:43 GMT
Thanks for your post, Roy ( sudbury12000). I think that paul1 may have a point about the date, but personally, I suspect 1st November may be it. In most cases where the month is in Roman numerals, the day number will have a serif in the font (or vice versa). Since both fonts are sans serif, I think the month is not a Roman numeral. Just my opinion, and of course, others are welcome. I am away on travel at the moment, but this coming weekend, I will check my Straits Settlements for other cancellations to see if I can find anything similar.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,269
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 14, 2023 22:51:56 GMT
I think the 6c is probably postally used in (SI)NGA(PORE)
The violet oval mark is likely to be an additional company security chop against pilfering rather than revenue use.
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Post by paul1 on Aug 15, 2023 8:11:20 GMT
what I know about C19 issues in Java/Jakarta is not of help in this instance, but it does appear that after French ownership the British ruled from 1811 to 1816, then transferred control back to the Dutch in 1816, so a British P.O. in Batavia c. 1870s seems unlikely. As for Chris' comments about serifed fonts, regret none of my few 'young head' Straits issues have a cancellation showing the digit 'one' with the clarity needed to resolve this question. However, have attached a picture showing three stamps of Ed. VII and George V issues where the digit 'one' is definitely a sans-serif face - but is it possible the following may help to answer the question......... Having looked at a variety of British low values cancelled in areas like Penang or Singapore - albeit not 'young head' stamps - the date cancellations use typical letter abbreviations for the month (FE, MR, JLY), similar to how they appear on the majority of British stamps cancelled overseas - unfortunately, the sequence of day and month isn't consistent ...... rather than the typical format of C19 stamps issued by Continental countries, where the day and month were mostly shown as digits. In the Batavia 8c. shown here, the date cancellation appears in the form of digits only - so, is it possible that despite this being a U.K. stamp the answer is it was simply cancelled in a non-British P.O., thereby acquiring a Continental style cancellation, and the part we see is typical for that period for a non-British cancellation - so my suggestion remains 1st February ....... or should that be January 2nd ;-). Though I can't offer an explanation as to how this situation came about.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,269
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 15, 2023 8:56:09 GMT
Lets try to get this back on track . Speculation without factual back up muddies the waters . 1 Batavia, Capital of the Netherlands East indies, was a major port in the 19th century within easy distance of Singapore so Ship mail would not be unusual . The Batavia squared circle cancel is nice . 2 There was not a British PO 3 The squared circle cancel is typical of all Dutch East Indies at that period 4 a simple check on ebay sales shows the style of the date so sudbury12000 's example must be 1st November as suggested by Beryllium Guy [
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Post by paul1 on Aug 15, 2023 9:16:33 GMT
agree 1st November - and had I not been rushing that was what I should have corrected my earlier date suggestion to, and Alex's comment re the absence of a Br. PO in Batavia had already been established in earlier comments. Do we know that this 8c. item was definitely cancelled on board a ship??
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,269
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 15, 2023 10:09:24 GMT
Ship mail or Paquebot mail refers to a stamped but uncancelled letter in transit to be handed over by a ships officer (captain or purser) and cancelled at the arrival port where it enters the postal system for delivery or onward transit . Not “cancelled on a ship” . This is the most common way in which a stamp receives a foreign cancel . There is a whole thread on foreign postmarked stamps on TSF already many relate to ship mail.
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,659
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 15, 2023 12:13:41 GMT
Thanks for taking the time to get similar postmarks, Alex ( vikingeck) to confirm the date. I mis-wrote the latter part of my earlier post, as I should have said that I would check my Netherlands Indies stamps rather than Straits Settlements to look at the postmarks. Anyway, thanks again to Alex for responding and resolving this while I am on travel.
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