France & Colonies: Perforation Examination & Varieties

ONLY comb perf....Interesting,   I was never aware of that.

Generally speaking with Australian Comb perf, which I am familiar with, comb perf is detected by a "dent" perf shape in each corner.
These French stamps do not regularly show this 

Being all French Stamps 1900-1940    show perforation guage 14 x 13.5  Then the side perforation pins should be smaller in Diameter ?

Being as there are so many French sowers out of centre from the perforations would suggest a lot of slipping with the paper.
I have only come across a comb perforator "slipping" in the punch mode on the last advance puncture on the advancement of the sheet.

it is possible that during the next punching cycle, a vertical movement will occur, resulting in different dimensions of the stamps.

Comb perforation only advance in a horizontal direction not vertical?   A comb perforation should give an identical stamp dimension size EVERY time

Hmmm thinking about it,  True if it is a machine perforator,  perhaps the French were perforated by a pedal operated machine?

gstamps I do not see that the 25c Semeuse ligneé ( Y&T #132) was ever issued in booklets.. I will look, I have a few off-sentered Semeuse, though I do not believe they are large/smaller than a centered stamp.

stainlessb, I'm sorry but I didn't understand you very well - I think my posts are not very understandable either.
Unlike your stamp with a higher height (explained in my previous post) I notice two stamps that are smaller.



Both have combined perf and I will try to explain why it looks like a line perforation in the upper part.
The perforation starts from the bottom of the sheet (see the position of the perforator)
The next perforation cycle is moved downwards so that on the stamp on the left, the top tooth is much thinner than the others, and on the stamp on the right a tooth has practically disappeared (the number of teeth vertically ... 15 instead of 16)
Notice that the holes on the sides are on the same horizontal - so it is a combined perforation.
A perforation in a line is very unlikely; an example of forging with a perforation in a line:

gstamps
If you have French stamps out of center, can you post them?    Yes shall do

I graduated as a Naval engineer, (read Fitter / turner)  and the genuine interest here, is fascinating to me as presently, I cannot make sense of it.

I can only come with some knowledge of the Australian Comb perforations,  used on the Grover Perforator
Attempting to comment on the French methodology, is mere speculation on my part, so it best I don't  comment further  until I read up,  from Spink,
to see if they have information.

In the Australian situation the sheets of stamps lay on a bed,   the punch and die (perforator pins)  carry out a puncture,
the bed of the perforator (with stamp sheet)  advances 1 step, and the punch carries out the next puncture.
ergo, each stamp receives an almost perfect set of perforation holes surrounding the stamp 

That said the punch and die can come in two or more designs,  a set of pins  as you show in your drawing, or  a set I show im my following images 
ie the pins are set out in a full stamp of 4 sides and two "legs" ready for the next puncture.

The other thing that mystifies me, a comb perforator die with mixed perf sizes    (ie 14 x 13.5)

The grover  Comb punch  (pins) and the Grover die  (accepting holes)
The Grover perforator bed  and punching head.

Hi rod222
I have only seen these machines in pictures.
Maybe I understood or not how it works.
Your first image shows a double combo punch (one full punched row and the second 3-part punched row)
In the previous post I drew a simple combined punch (used for Semeuses stamps)
The Michel catalog shows the types of combined perforations:



In the third image you see the punch/die punch assembly which has 4 centering columns and thus when moving the punch vertically its pins will surely enter the die holes.
The paper of the stamp pair was placed incorrectly on the perforator bed (moved to the right) and thus the vertical perforations instead of being on the white side between the stamps are in the drawing.
I don't understand what is your confusion with perf 14 x13.5?
The axes of the pins horizontally are at a distance of 1,428 mm (20 : 14) and vertically of 1,481 mm (20 : 13.5)
I found a website (in French) with an article that shows how to perforate these Semeuse stamps:
​
semeuse.blogspot.com/2017/11/vive-les-sans-dents-irrespectueux.html

Quote:

Linienzähnung = Line perforation = Compound perforation - I don't understand what is the difference between Line and Compound perforation (2 names for the same thing?)


Hi Gstamps,
As I am understanding it, Line perforation are punctures made in a single line, to separate stamps in a sheet, or pane

Compound Perfs
Are punctures made in a sheet, that are similar to  harrow perf,  but made in two presses of the punch.  (ie the sheet is turned 90 degrees)
EG: There may be 2 or more  parallel lines of pins

PS: Compound perf may also identify a single stamp with differing guages on 2 or more sides

Harrow Perf
The punch pins mirror exactly the shape of intended stamp shape.  (be it 1 or more stamps in a block,  freeform shape,  or  part perforation (the stamp cannot be released from the sheet )

Caveat
This may be British Philatelic verbiage, other countries may have differing names

Hi rod222
I don't speak English or German, so I might be wrong.
I think that your definition for "compound perforation" can cause confusion.
I read in the Scott catalog and I think it refers to the difference in the size of the perforations on the horizontal (top/bottom) compared to those on the sides (left/right) or even on each side separately.



The first DeutscheReich stamps were comb.perf (K) with different sizes of horizontal/vertical perforations



In Scott I did not find the mention about the types of perforator.
I'm trying to summarize the types of perforators described in Michel (with google translation deficiencies)

1. Line perf. (L) - one side perforated per cycle - 4 cycles are required.

2. Combined perf. (K) - 3 sides perforated in a cycle - 2 cycles are required.
 
3. Perf. Cross (KreuzKamm) - 1 completely perforated side and half of the 2 perpendicular sides - 2 cycles are required.

I hardly found an example on the net:



4. Box perf. - all 4 sides perforated in one cycle.

In previous posts, I have attached images of these types of perforators.
I hope it will be helpful.
I think the thread should be renamed...something like "Types of Punch Perforation"
Not all the examples discussed in this thread were used for French stamps.