thailandrevenues
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What I collect: Revenue stamps from Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.
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Post by thailandrevenues on Feb 21, 2024 5:04:14 GMT
As first post in this new thread, I like to talk about existing Thailand stamp revenue catalogs. Without a catalog, it’s nearly impossible to collect this country in any meaningful way. Copies of all existing catalogs can be found in my website in link www.thailandrevenues.com/blog/categories/catalogsThe 3 most relevant catalogs are, John Barefoot’s, Peter Iber’s and the Jos Sanders catalogs. Peter Iber catalog 1997. For beginners, this is quite an easy catalog to navigate. John Barefoot catalog 2006, this catalog is less accurate than the Peter Iber catalog. Do not try to buy stamps at the listed prices, many times the list price is over 10 x the market value. There is no copy on my website but you can see an internet version in John Barefoot website at www.jbarefoot.co.uk/revenue-stamps-information/thailand.htmJos Sanders catalog 2023. This is the previous Blakeney/ Sanders revision 2019 catalog, now in the process of being updated to revision 2023. Most detailed and updated catalog existing, 300 plus pages, in color. All know Thai revenue stamps are listed, including beverage and tobacco stamps. For free available on the home page of my website www.thailandrevenues.com
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Londonbus1
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What I collect: Cinderellas and some Ephemera from Great Britain, France and Israel plus a few beautiful bits from elsewhere !! Topical interests include Flags & Judaica, the latter with an emphasis on the Jewish National Fund.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Feb 21, 2024 12:23:06 GMT
Thanks Jos !! I saw your catalogue via one of your Facebook posts. Very nice. The question is, will it lead to the start of a collection of Thai revenues ? Londonbus1
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Feb 21, 2024 13:26:18 GMT
Hi Jos, we are privileged to have you aboard. Only problem with Thai Revenues,...finding stock in Australia. Just some "bits and pieces" One of my Catalogues Becoming familiar with Thai scripts. Officially sealed Labels (I paid $2.95 +ship 2012)
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thailandrevenues
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Posts: 14
What I collect: Revenue stamps from Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.
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Post by thailandrevenues on Feb 21, 2024 15:45:03 GMT
Reply to Londonbus1 No, a Thai revenue catalog alone is not enough for people to start a Thai revenue collection. However having a catalog available will make collecting life more easy. In the past years, I was able to help make a few collectors. The main avenue is my sales on eBay where I dispose a lot of my duplicates. I give good descriptions about the stamps and am I am willing to answer unlimited amounts of questions. Each lot I sell starts in general at $0.99. I also have starter lots of 40 stamps for $10 fixed price. I think the real sales value on eBay would be over $25. I sold over 20 lots in the past 2 months. So, a catalog in combination with available stamps (on eBay) and my willingness to mentor new collectors will stimulate new collectors to join in. I also post new articles and a monthly updated blog on my website.
At this moment, there are about 10 serious and advanced collectors of Thai revenues and I estimate about 30 beginner and intermediate collectors. Since opening my website 6 months ago, I have 70+ people registered. Many of the renew registrations now come via my weekly Facebook posts. So for a niche market as Thailand revenues, I think it’s moving quite well in the good direction. I also just posted on Facebook again a few hours ago on consular service stamps used by various embassies in Thailand. Each subject I post will attract some total of 300 likes. everything helps if it is done synchronised.
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thailandrevenues
**Member**
Posts: 14
What I collect: Revenue stamps from Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.
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Post by thailandrevenues on Feb 21, 2024 15:56:56 GMT
Hello Rod,
Also nice to see you on this board your knowledge on all things stamp related does amaze me. By the way, the lady playing the 3 string instrument, I think it’s a lute, on the stamps you show, is called in Thai PhraUthean. An error in design shows on some stamps a 4th tuning peg while the instrument has only 3 strings.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Feb 21, 2024 19:24:36 GMT
Hello Rod, Also nice to see you on this board your knowledge on all things stamp related does amaze me. By the way, the lady playing the 3 string instrument, I think it’s a lute, on the stamps you show, is called in Thai PhraUthean. An error in design shows on some stamps a 4th tuning peg while the instrument has only 3 strings. thailandrevenuesJos, am not getting any results on searches for Phra Uthean could you check with your colleagues please? I'd like to get it right. (Esp. in a Thai focus) Any Links? My reference is this catalogue (40 Buddhist Gods / ritual objects) The description I offered may be the Nepalese titular reference to the same Goddess. We need Eli Moalem from Israel, he is the expert in this discipline General Literature not associated with above.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Feb 21, 2024 19:32:08 GMT
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thailandrevenues
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Posts: 14
What I collect: Revenue stamps from Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.
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Post by thailandrevenues on Feb 22, 2024 2:53:50 GMT
Rod,
I will need some time to look up Phrae Uthaen. The problem with translation of Thai into English is that there is no standardization of translation. My wife has a different spelling of her last name as her father. Streets have different names even on government signs like my street, Lad Phrao, LatPhrao, LardPhrao, Ladphraow. So it’s a nightmare to look in Google and even use Google maps.
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thailandrevenues
**Member**
Posts: 14
What I collect: Revenue stamps from Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.
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Post by thailandrevenues on Feb 22, 2024 4:51:05 GMT
I am putting on Facebook a weekly post. Since not all members in TSF have Facebook, I will add similar posts here. Consular or Diplomatic Service fee revenues used by foreign embassies or consulates based in Thailand. this is an interesting niche area to collect in addition to the revenues of Thailand. these stamps are used mainly on visa for passports or for legalizing documents at the embassies. Single stamps are difficult to find because the name of the country or Thai city has to be placed exactly on the stamps. More luck can be had with stamps on piece or even on document. In spite of the difficulty to find those stamps, most of them can be had for a few dollar. I am always looking for more to expand my collection.
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thailandrevenues
**Member**
Posts: 14
What I collect: Revenue stamps from Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.
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Post by thailandrevenues on Feb 24, 2024 13:38:17 GMT
Thailand revenue stamps, Diplomatic and Consular service revenues of Great Britain used in Thailand. Part 2 I acquired a 72 year old complete Thai passport a while ago. I purchased it for the 3 Consular and Diplomatic Service revenues of Great Britain used at the embassy in Bangkok inside. A small purchase and some internet study teached me, never ever again to complain about long international flights and long transits. Interesting what can be found on the internet, even a 1952 flight schedule for Boac flights. The 4 pictures and text below explains in detail. Sometimes a simple purchase can lead to interesting learning!
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thailandrevenues
**Member**
Posts: 14
What I collect: Revenue stamps from Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.
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Post by thailandrevenues on Mar 2, 2024 6:52:44 GMT
General question on perforations. In all the years I collect, I have seen many references on perforations. However, I have never seen a reference to the size of the holes due to different size of the punches. In the 2 pictures below both stamps have perforation 13.5. However, the green stamp has clearly smaller holes than the red color stamp. Why does nobode seem to talk about this. If happens in the same catalog number stamp, it is clearly a variation? Please advice
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Mar 2, 2024 7:46:01 GMT
General question on perforations. In all the years I collect, I have seen many references on perforations. However, I have never seen a reference to the size of the holes due to different size of the punches. In the 2 pictures below both stamps have perforation 13.5. However, the green stamp has clearly smaller holes than the red color stamp. Why does nobode seem to talk about this. If happens in the same catalog number stamp, it is clearly a variation? Please advice thailandrevenuesHi Jos, Thoughts. I have seen it in literature twice in my 25 years or so? I have to hit you with the old chestnut, "Philately begins where the catalogue ends" In other words, you observe it, then make it part of your research, post examples on forums, and mention in print. That's all we can do, it appears so scarce, one rarely comes across it. I am having trouble recalling where I have met with it, Australian catalogue methinks. Variation? Notable certainly, but attracting a new catalogue number, I think not, unless a new printer etc. If I find it, I'll post Cheers
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Mar 2, 2024 7:52:52 GMT
linkMeasurements of Stamp Separation Features by Digital Image Analysis Robert V. Mustacich, 722 Camino Cascada, Santa Barbara, CA, USA. ABSTRACT. Digital image analysis of perforations provides useful characterizations of stamps and the mechanical processes used to create them. Using this approach, the hole sizes, the spacing between holes, and related parameters are easily measured to micron-level precision. The 150 year history of stamp perforation is revealed by analyzing entire sheets of stamps, showing stages of improvement in the quality of rotary perforation. It is also possible to compare various types of rotary and stroke perforation, as well as the likelihood of re-perforation. Further, these analysis methods can describe other stamp edge profiles such as rouletted and die-cut separation. Introduction The analysis of perforation images was used recently to solve a mystery regarding forged extra perforation of 19th century U.S. revenue stamps (Mustacich, 2014). The focus of that effort was finding a way to measure inconsistencies in hole spacing to fingerprint each row of perforations, and determining if there was a single manufacture of these extra perforations. The studies described in this article apply these methods more broadly to investigate perforations, and extend the image analysis to include other types of separation. This stamp image analysis research covers four topics: (1) Using statistical analysis of perforation features to reveal the quality of perforation over the history of U.S. federal stamp production, comparing the characteristics of different methods of perforation; (2) investigating possible stamp re-perforation; (3) applying perforation fingerprinting to modern issues; and (4) modifying the methods for the analysis of other types of stamp separation. There are several interesting aspects of these topics. Since rotary perforators were such a difficult machine to manufacture, was there improvement in these machines over the history of perforation that is evident from examination of the stamps? For example, was there improvement that coincides with the initiative between the Bureau of Engraving and Printing and the National Bureau of Standards in the early 1980s to address the problems of manufacture? And then later, how did the transfer of perforation to private contractors in the late 20th century affect the observable characteristics of perforation? How do the characteristics of differently produced perforations compare? Example applications address several of these topics. These include suspected re-perforations, the fingerprinting of modern stroke-perforated U.S. stamps, the analysis of rouletted separations of early stamps of Finland, and the measurements of modern die-cut U.S. stamps.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Mar 2, 2024 8:04:48 GMT
Jos, here is the (fairly sophisticated) Perforating pin block, from an Australian "Grover" perforator. (Comb perforator) One can assume by its sophistication, any (differing) pin diameter punctures, must come from (a) a different perforator, or (b) different perforating pin block installed in the machine at a later date. Your Thai example may have been punctured by less sophisticated "single line" perforators, but the assumption would be similar. Perhaps, also, the printer jobbed out the perforations to a new sideline business.
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thailandrevenues
**Member**
Posts: 14
What I collect: Revenue stamps from Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.
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Post by thailandrevenues on Mar 2, 2024 8:11:19 GMT
Rod, Thanks for the support. I think this is quite an interesting subject. I plan to review the agriculture revenue stamps I have (about 1,200) and look if I can find other series with a similar feature. When done I will write a short summary on this forum. Thanks again.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Mar 2, 2024 8:16:04 GMT
From the link Figure 8. Similarly constructed plots comparing the edges of the same stamp for uncharacteristic or greatly differing perforation properties. The three illustrated stamps display the following anomalies: (a) the distributions for the right edge are uncharacteristically narrow with a too perfect cut; (b) the left edge has too wide a range of radii; and (c) the two edges have greatly different distributions of hole radii.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Mar 2, 2024 8:41:01 GMT
Puncture Diameter sizes in Stamp Perforations. Another consideration.
quote My investigations of effective hole size by machining punches using replacement perforator pins shows that holes tend to slightly smaller sizes than the pin size, by about 1-4% depending on factors such as the stiffness of the paper and the clearance of the pin in the hole. Small clearances and stiff paper result in hole sizes closer to the pin size.
Soft paper or large clearances appear to allow stretching of the paper before the pin bursts through the paper, and the relaxation of the paper results in a smaller effective hole size (Mustacich, 2015).
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thailandrevenues
**Member**
Posts: 14
What I collect: Revenue stamps from Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.
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Post by thailandrevenues on Mar 3, 2024 15:09:27 GMT
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thailandrevenues
**Member**
Posts: 14
What I collect: Revenue stamps from Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.
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Post by thailandrevenues on Mar 12, 2024 4:20:34 GMT
Thailand Long Green Court Fee stamps used at the British Consulate in Bangkok, between 1896-1909. For quite some years the 2 stamps shown below, were part of my collection and I had absolutely no idea why the British would use Thai stamps. Recently the internet gave me the solution. In 1855 as part of the Bowring treaty between Britain and Siam, Siam was forced to accept that they could not longer prosecute in their courts British citizen. A British Consular court was established to prosecute British citizens living in Thailand, using British law and British judges. Many British subjects including Burmese and Shan lived in Thailand, working for British trading companies. Most of them involved in hard-wood harvesting and trading in the northern part of Thailand. So the 2 stamps shown were clearly used by the British Consular Court. The Consular Court was dismantled in 1909 in a treaty in which Thailand lost Kelantan, Trengganu, Kedah and Perlis to British Malaya. I think the cancellation on the 2 stamps is unique.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Mar 12, 2024 5:10:57 GMT
Thailand Long Green Court Fee stamps used at the British Consulate in Bangkok, between 1896-1909. For quite some years the 2 stamps shown below, were part of my collection and I had absolutely no idea why the British would use Thai stamps. Recently the internet gave me the solution. In 1855 as part of the Bowring treaty between Britain and Siam, Siam was forced to accept that they could not longer prosecute in their courts British citizen. A British Consular court was established to prosecute British citizens living in Thailand, using British law and British judges. Many British subjects including Burmese and Shan lived in Thailand, working for British trading companies. Most of them involved in hard-wood harvesting and trading in the northern part of Thailand. So the 2 stamps shown were clearly used by the British Consular Court. The Consular Court was dismantled in 1909 in a treaty in which Thailand lost Kelantan, Trengganu, Kedah and Perlis to British Malaya. I think the cancellation on the 2 stamps is unique. Hi Jos, Great research and an interesting story, It's always a joy to crack a philatelic mystery. First time I have met with the "Ava Kingdom" !
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Mar 12, 2024 8:00:30 GMT
thailandrevenues Thai Occupation of Trengganu 1944 Sailing Boat $3 red brown and black Corner Marginal Estimate £20
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thailandrevenues
**Member**
Posts: 14
What I collect: Revenue stamps from Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.
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Post by thailandrevenues on Mar 12, 2024 10:28:23 GMT
A similar stamp 3 dollar brown with right margin sold yesterday on eBay for GBP 100. in the passed few years, the full set of 15 stamps became very popular for Thailand as well as Malaya collectors. the full set sells for about 900 GBP.
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thailandrevenues
**Member**
Posts: 14
What I collect: Revenue stamps from Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.
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Post by thailandrevenues on Mar 12, 2024 10:53:57 GMT
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thailandrevenues
**Member**
Posts: 14
What I collect: Revenue stamps from Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.
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Post by thailandrevenues on Mar 15, 2024 8:27:06 GMT
Thailand revenue stamps. i do run a website including blog and also frequent Facebook posts on Thailand revenue stamps. since more than 80 percent of my readers and customers are Thai native speakers. I started today to experiment to translate my posts in the Thai language. Since I can not read or write Thai myself this is quite a challenge. i used ChatGPT-4 with artificial intelligence to make the translation. This turns to be a wonderful resource with lots of benefits including explanations on certain translations. I have now several positive reactions to the blog posts I just translated. i think finding ways to get non English philatelists deeper involved is important for the future of out hobby. i also asked ChatGPT to design a British consulate in Thailand for me and also design a new 100 years old Thailand revenue stamp. After 2 minutes I got pictures shown below. I am sure, if I acquire more skill these pictures will look perfect. Please remember this is 100% artificial intelligence and although both stamp and consulate look quite real, it are composites of a lot of different info from the internet. Please be careful, a lot of things you will see in future are not real, including some stamps! below my post on Facebook and the AI stamp and Consulate.
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